What IDE are you using?

[typingcat]

First of all, I'm an Asian and I need to input Japanese, Korean and so
on. I've tried many PHP IDEs today, but almost non of them supported
Unicode (UTF-8) file.

I've found that the only Unicode support IDEs are DreamWeaver 8 and
Zend PHP Studio.

DreamWeaver provides full support for Unicode. However, DreamWeaver is
a web editor rather than a PHP IDE. It only supports basic IntelliSense
(or code completion) and doesn't have anything like a class view.

Zend PHP Studio supports Unicode but have many problems. It couldn't
display Korean when I set a Japanese font for the editor, and couldn't
display Japanese when I set a Korean font for the editor. The most
obvious problem is it's too slow. It provides really good support for
coding like class view, debugging and advanced IntelliSense, but it's
too slow for my PC.

I think you're PHP professinals. What do you use for PHP development?
I'd like to hear from you. Thanks.

[Jerry Stuckle]

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
Ah but they surely can, easily and cheaply with HtDig.

No, it's not as easy as Windows help files. Also not as fast.

HTML is good for a lot of things - but it's NOT the answer to life, the
universe and everything!

And BTW - generally I don't do Alt+Tab plus whatever. Most of the
time I have the help files up on a second computer and just switch
keyboards.

Ah now that's convenient! :-)

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Jerry Stuckle]

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

No, I don't refuse to explore them. They're there; they work OK. But
HTML still isn't as good as Windows help files.
Really? How so? Tell me when you need to research some random odd topic
do you use Google or do you use some sort of all inclusive Windows help
file?

Irrelevant. We're talking about documentation for a project, not some
"random odd topic".
(Reminds me of the adage: When all you have is a hammer then every
problem looks like a nail!)

You said it. You're the one trying to force everyone to use an IDE!

I'm telling you HOW I WORK AND WHAT I USE. Unlike you, I AM NOT
TELLING YOU WHAT TO USE!

I'm telling you how to play nice with others. If all you ever do is
create code in isolation and never in a group use any damn thing you
want. But when you have the attitude of "this is how I work - works for
me - and who gives a rat's ass about my coworker who is working on the
same app, needs the same documentation but doesn't use Windows" then I
have a problem with it.

And how is using a text editor not "playing nice with others"? Many
projects I've worked on use TextPad or something similar.

And when I say "This is how I work" - I mean this is how the projects I
manage work. Each person is free to use his/her favorite
editor/ide/whatever. I don't force a single IDE on anyone.

You keep telling me I should be using IDE's, HTML help files, etc.
Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Yes, wrong, wrong, wrong as in *you are wrong!!!* I didn't tell you do
use an IDE. I'm the guy saying IDEs are not that good. Remember?

The incompetent trying to force the more capable to conform.

I use what is best for me and on my projects.

Then you must work in isolation. But if you want to work with others you
should at least show a little sensitivity to the fact that they have
different requirements, needs and desires and you should strive to use
technologies that benefit all equally.

No, I've worked on some very large projects - 100+ programmers, for
instance.

No, it's not "Windows tunnel vision". It's what *I* use. You use
whatever you want.

Of course it's a Windows tunnel vision issue. You have be seduced by
"It's my PC and I do what I want with it - others be damned". Hey I have
no problem with that. Just that you might as well unplug from the
network and go off to your corner with your machine and code your
projects. Most of the rest of us want to participate in jointly
developed, collaborative work. As such we need common ground not "you do
it your way and I'll do it mine" (That is unless you can assure that
both ways will work by using some common standard...)

Not at all. It's the way the whole project works.

Get with it. There are a lot of people in this world who are more
knowledgeable and competent than you. And a large percentage of those
people agree with me - use what works best for you.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Andrew DeFaria]

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

With Windows help files, you don't NEED an IDE! And BTW - this is a
PHP newsgroup, not a Java newsgroup.
But you do need Windows! ;-)

With a web page (and a search engine - of which there are many) you
can do it anywhere, from any machine.

So? What does that have to do with the original topic - whether an
IDE is better than a text editor or not?

It makes more of a team player when working on large projects with many
people. IDEs make you think of your your own little environment, which
then becomes specialized and only work in one very specific situation.
But to respond to your comment. HTML help is fine - but do you have a
search engine which can search all the web pages?
Actually yes I do. HtDig will indeed to that.
I know there are some out there - but the free ones which will run on
an intranet aren't that great a quality, while the good quality ones
are expensive.
Well then you've never set one up and used it. Granted any search engine
is only as good as the quality of the stuff it searches...
Yes, there are some Unix projects out there. And there are developers
who use Unix. I use Unix, also. But virtually all of my development
is done on Windows with a NFS mount from the Linux machine. It's then
an easy job to make the project. And although I don't do much Unix
programming, I don't think I've seen ANY projects which don't have
Windows on the majority of the desktops.
Who ever said majority?!? You did - not I. I merely stated that there
may be some people who are not on Windows.

As for free Windows web search engines
http://www.google.com/search?q=free+...en-US:official

And as long as you already have Unix and are already accessing it,
surely you can put your docs there and use the Unix web server and HtDig
to provide documentation for all - instead of alienating those simply
because they didn't choose your chosen desktop - Windows. (BTW My chosen
desktop is Windows too! But I bear in mind others, am cognizant and
relatively fluent in Unix/Linux and I have seen the light and utility in
not locking people into one OS over the other).
But I'm sure there are some - and the Windows help files don't work
there. But they work for every project in which I've been involved.

Shows your lack of foresight! Hey it works for me, and everybody done my
isle so who cares. There are reasons why it's bad to lock yourself into
a proprietary OS and proprietary formats and good to embrace open
standards. Just look at the web! It works for Windows, Unix, Linux, Mac,
and a host of other OSes, all relatively the same.
--
A shark is the only fish that can blink with both eyes.

[Andrew DeFaria]

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Ah that would be wonderful. But in my some 25 years in the business I
don't think I've ever actually seen that in practice! Then again I do
more admin/build/release stuff... (And surprisingly enough, even at
that late stage of the game, rarely do I see design docs that go to
the level of defining function names and parameters... Sad but true)
Then you're Project Manager is not managing the project properly.

Then my Project Managers, from over 25 years - at companies as big and
diverse as HP, Sun, Cisco, Amerquest, Broadcom and a plethora of others
(look up my resume...) have all not been managing their projects
properly. This does say something very loudly and clearly - what you
describe is definitely not the norm. Indeed what you describe is pie in
the sky rarity!

Mind you I agree with the philosophy and personally that's the way I
would do it. However, and again, that is not the way I've ever seen it done.

Finally, my Project Managers as of late are not really projects managers
as per se, rather they are clients.
I learned about project management when I was working for IBM back in
the 80's.
Break out the blue suit and tie... ;-)
Since then I've been both a programmer and a PM. When I've been a PM,
the documentation is complete long before programming starts (and yes,
I get the programmers involved in the design). And I've been a
programmer on projects where the design is done properly. Every one
was completed on time
Given enough time that is. Unfortunately businesses do not really have
that kind of time anymore. Models like the Open Source model beat the
pants off of the structured design everything first then start coding
methodologies of the past...
and within budget, given reasonable time and budgetary constraints.
Aye there's the rub - "reasonable time". Which is way longer than is
acceptable these days. Why do you think IBM fell from on high? Because
different more flexible and a lot faster ways of doing things developed
and IBM didn't keep pace. The only reason IBM is back at all is that
they have actively changed their culture and stringentness.
And change orders were handled by modifying the design - which showed
exactly how it would affect other parts of the project.

I've also worked on ones where PM wasn't properly done. Some were on
time, but most were late. They also had more bugs and change orders
were harder to implement.

The track records of the big companies has not agreed with your assessment.

Of course, if you don't design the application and fly by the seat
of your pants, that's another story.

In my line of work I'm forced to do that all the time...

I've heard that before. But all but the smallest projects benefit
from a proper design.

Yes but then your contract expires early and your out on the street
begging for food. You know those grandiose ideas and methodologies look
great on paper. But the real world and real business constraints always
seem to get in way. As a contract and a businessman myself I strive to
keep the customer happy and they are always right, etc... Real world is,
while proper design, etc. is all nice, it don't happen much.
--
Why do toasters always have a setting that burns the toast to a horrible
crisp no one would eat?

[Andrew DeFaria]

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Windows help compiler - $0.

You forgot to include the cost of Windows itself!

(BTW Linux is free - yeah companies sell Linux but what they are selling
really is support not the software itself - IOW you can get Linux for free).
--
Why do croutons come in airtight packages? It's just stale bread to
begin with.

[Andrew DeFaria]

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

No, I don't refuse to explore them. They're there; they work OK.
But HTML still isn't as good as Windows help files.
Really? How so? Tell me when you need to research some random odd
topic do you use Google or do you use some sort of all inclusive
Windows help file?

Irrelevant. We're talking about documentation for a project, not some
"random odd topic".

Not irrelevant. Google searching billions of pages - why more than
whatever documentation you or I have ever produced - and does so quite
well. The same can be applied to your own documentation.. .

(Reminds me of the adage: When all you have is a hammer then every
problem looks like a nail!)

You said it. You're the one trying to force everyone to use an IDE!

Boy you are really a moron aren't you? I suggest you go back and do a
little research there bud. If you did I'm sure you would quickly find
that it is not I who is trying to force anybody to using any IDE. I'm
the guy who's against IDEs and I mentioned it last post. You, however
didn't even read that or your comprehension skills are all shot. Let me
make it clear *I DO NOT ENDORSE THE CONCEPT OF USING IDES - IN FACT I
SAY THE OPPOSITE!!!* I'm not sure how much clearer I can be on this
subject. Now that you've just proven that you are a moron wiggle out of
that one!

I'm telling you HOW I WORK AND WHAT I USE. Unlike you, I AM NOT
TELLING YOU WHAT TO USE!

I'm telling you how to play nice with others. If all you ever do is
create code in isolation and never in a group use any damn thing you
want. But when you have the attitude of "this is how I work - works
for me - and who gives a rat's ass about my coworker who is working
on the same app, needs the same documentation but doesn't use
Windows" then I have a problem with it.

And how is using a text editor not "playing nice with others"? Many
projects I've worked on use TextPad or something similar.

Huh? Are you really this dense? If you produce MS only help files for
your documented function calls then you have alienated anybody who
doesn't use Windows. Is this concept really that difficult for you to
grasp?!?
And when I say "This is how I work" - I mean this is how the projects
I manage work. Each person is free to use his/her favorite
editor/ide/whatever. I don't force a single IDE on anyone.
Nor do I, even though you still haven't managed to understand that. We
weren't talking about editors or IDEs for that matter. We were talking
about your proprietary formated MS Help files...

You keep telling me I should be using IDE's, HTML help files, etc.
Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Yes, wrong, wrong, wrong as in *you are wrong!!!* I didn't tell you
do use an IDE. I'm the guy saying IDEs are not that good. Remember?

The incompetent trying to force the more capable to conform.

Dude you're just way off base here...

I use what is best for me and on my projects.

Then you must work in isolation. But if you want to work with others
you should at least show a little sensitivity to the fact that they
have different requirements, needs and desires and you should strive
to use technologies that benefit all equally.

No, I've worked on some very large projects - 100+ programmers, for
instance.

And not a single one of them used anything other than Windows? You sound
like just another MS drone to me...

No, it's not "Windows tunnel vision". It's what *I* use. You use
whatever you want.

Of course it's a Windows tunnel vision issue. You have be seduced by
"It's my PC and I do what I want with it - others be damned". Hey I
have no problem with that. Just that you might as well unplug from
the network and go off to your corner with your machine and code your
projects. Most of the rest of us want to participate in jointly
developed, collaborative work. As such we need common ground not "you
do it your way and I'll do it mine" (That is unless you can assure
that both ways will work by using some common standard...)

Not at all. It's the way the whole project works.

Now who's forcing compliance?
Get with it. There are a lot of people in this world who are more
knowledgeable and competent than you. And a large percentage of those
people agree with me - use what works best for you.

I'm all for using what works best for you. However when parts of what
you are working on are shared by others, then to assume the mindset that
everybody else works like you is just plain wrong. You do this when you
admit to using Windows Help files which admittedly only work on Windows
right? Ergo that shared documentation is not usable by anybody who
doesn't use Windows. At this point that other person has two options:
Either user Windows like you (i.e. break the rule of use what works best
for him) or not be able to share that knowledge. The only other way out
of that dilemma is if the documentation you produced is not intended for
everybody - i.e. you are working in isolation. Which is it?
--
Music is the art which is most nigh to tears and memory. - Oscar Wilde

[Andrew DeFaria]

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Ah but they surely can, easily and cheaply with HtDig.
No, it's not as easy as Windows help files. Also not as fast.

Google searches billions of web pages in seconds. When a Windows help
file can achieve that same speed give me a ring.
HTML is good for a lot of things - but it's NOT the answer to life,
the universe and everything!

You're just afraid of it because you don't understand it...
--
I think there is a world market for maybe five computers. - Thomas J.
Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

[Ramon]

You people are insane! You are saying pretty much the same thing in
different ways. But the manner in which you do it, would freaking bring
out the hostility in any saint. Sad.

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Jerry Stuckle wrote:

No, I don't refuse to explore them. They're there; they work OK.
But HTML still isn't as good as Windows help files.

Really? How so? Tell me when you need to research some random odd
topic do you use Google or do you use some sort of all inclusive
Windows help file?

Irrelevant. We're talking about documentation for a project, not some
"random odd topic".

Not irrelevant. Google searching billions of pages - why more than
whatever documentation you or I have ever produced - and does so quite
well. The same can be applied to your own documentation.. .

(Reminds me of the adage: When all you have is a hammer then every
problem looks like a nail!)

You said it. You're the one trying to force everyone to use an IDE!

Boy you are really a moron aren't you? I suggest you go back and do a
little research there bud. If you did I'm sure you would quickly find
that it is not I who is trying to force anybody to using any IDE. I'm
the guy who's against IDEs and I mentioned it last post. You, however
didn't even read that or your comprehension skills are all shot. Let me
make it clear *I DO NOT ENDORSE THE CONCEPT OF USING IDES - IN FACT I
SAY THE OPPOSITE!!!* I'm not sure how much clearer I can be on this
subject. Now that you've just proven that you are a moron wiggle out of
that one!

I'm telling you HOW I WORK AND WHAT I USE. Unlike you, I AM NOT
TELLING YOU WHAT TO USE!

I'm telling you how to play nice with others. If all you ever do is
create code in isolation and never in a group use any damn thing you
want. But when you have the attitude of "this is how I work - works
for me - and who gives a rat's ass about my coworker who is working
on the same app, needs the same documentation but doesn't use
Windows" then I have a problem with it.

And how is using a text editor not "playing nice with others"? Many
projects I've worked on use TextPad or something similar.

Huh? Are you really this dense? If you produce MS only help files for
your documented function calls then you have alienated anybody who
doesn't use Windows. Is this concept really that difficult for you to
grasp?!?

And when I say "This is how I work" - I mean this is how the projects
I manage work. Each person is free to use his/her favorite
editor/ide/whatever. I don't force a single IDE on anyone.

Nor do I, even though you still haven't managed to understand that. We
weren't talking about editors or IDEs for that matter. We were talking
about your proprietary formated MS Help files...

You keep telling me I should be using IDE's, HTML help files, etc.
Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Yes, wrong, wrong, wrong as in *you are wrong!!!* I didn't tell you
do use an IDE. I'm the guy saying IDEs are not that good. Remember?

The incompetent trying to force the more capable to conform.

Dude you're just way off base here...

I use what is best for me and on my projects.

Then you must work in isolation. But if you want to work with others
you should at least show a little sensitivity to the fact that they
have different requirements, needs and desires and you should strive
to use technologies that benefit all equally.

No, I've worked on some very large projects - 100+ programmers, for
instance.

And not a single one of them used anything other than Windows? You sound
like just another MS drone to me...

No, it's not "Windows tunnel vision". It's what *I* use. You use
whatever you want.

Of course it's a Windows tunnel vision issue. You have be seduced by
"It's my PC and I do what I want with it - others be damned". Hey I
have no problem with that. Just that you might as well unplug from
the network and go off to your corner with your machine and code your
projects. Most of the rest of us want to participate in jointly
developed, collaborative work. As such we need common ground not "you
do it your way and I'll do it mine" (That is unless you can assure
that both ways will work by using some common standard...)

Not at all. It's the way the whole project works.

Now who's forcing compliance?

Get with it. There are a lot of people in this world who are more
knowledgeable and competent than you. And a large percentage of those
people agree with me - use what works best for you.

I'm all for using what works best for you. However when parts of what
you are working on are shared by others, then to assume the mindset that
everybody else works like you is just plain wrong. You do this when you
admit to using Windows Help files which admittedly only work on Windows
right? Ergo that shared documentation is not usable by anybody who
doesn't use Windows. At this point that other person has two options:
Either user Windows like you (i.e. break the rule of use what works best
for him) or not be able to share that knowledge. The only other way out
of that dilemma is if the documentation you produced is not intended for
everybody - i.e. you are working in isolation. Which is it?
--
Music is the art which is most nigh to tears and memory. - Oscar Wilde

[Andrew DeFaria]

Ramon wrote:

You people are insane! You are saying pretty much the same thing in
different ways. But the manner in which you do it, would freaking
bring out the hostility in any saint. Sad.

I ain't no saint. Never claimed to be. If you don't like it then ignore
the thread.
--
Don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more. -
John Prine

[Oli Filth]

Jerry Stuckle said the following on 28/10/2005 04:28:

Oli Filth wrote:

Jerry Stuckle said the following on 27/10/2005 22:16:

This thread is about using IDE's.

If you original point was actually related to a different branch of
this thread, you should've posted it as a reply in that branch, not a
completely unrelated branch...

No, my original point was related to the original part of this thread.
You're trying to change that.

At the risk of flogging a dead horse...
If your post was in response to the original part of the thread, then
you should've posted it as a reply there. If you post it as a reply to
an unrelated branch (i.e. one that digressed, like NG discussions tend
to do), you can hardly be surprised when someone says "What the hell?
How does that relate to what I just said?".

But HTML documentation cannot be as easily searched and indexed,
especially if it's on an intranet.

Exactly - each "level" (hard-copy => HTML => CHM => "integrated " help)
adds a new layer of functionality. Context-sensitive help is the
logical conclusion of that progression.

Yep - and each level brings a new layer of complexity. Context-sensitive
help is not always needed - unless you're lazy or incompetent.

You're right, if it's *needed*, in the sense of "can't live without it".
However, IMO, it's always nice to have a tool which saves time, and
minimises distraction from the task in hand - actually putting code into
the editor.

Even basics like auto-indent and syntax highlighting aren't *needed*,
but I'd be pretty pissed off if I had to work without them.

--
Oli