frames

[David de Kloet]

Hi,

My website uses frames and one should always load the frameset and not
only one of the frames. Is there a nice way to ensure/check that a page is
actualy loaded within a frameset?

thanks,

David

[PeterMcC]

David de Kloet wrote:

Hi,

My website uses frames and one should always load the frameset and not
only one of the frames. Is there a nice way to ensure/check that a
page is actualy loaded within a frameset?

Well, if you must use frames...

Putting the following in the head of your pages will mean that, in the event
of a frame being loaded without the frameset, the page will default to
index.html. Whilst this doesn't give the visitor the framed page that they
were expecting, it does give them a complete frameset with a menu so that
they can at least navigate the site.

<script language="javas cript">
if (document.locat ion == top.location)
{
document.locati on="index.html" ;
}
</script>

I'd also suggest that there are lots of ways of getting rid of frames - the
"I want to have the same menu on every page without repeating it" is the
benefit that I hear most often and that's easily solved with includes:
http://www.bignosebird.com/sdocs/include.shtml

HTH
--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.

[David de Kloet]

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, PeterMcC wrote:

Well, if you must use frames...
I know what you mean.
<script language="javas cript">
if (document.locat ion == top.location)
{
document.locati on="index.html" ;
}
</script>
Thanks, just what I was looking for.
I'd also suggest that there are lots of ways of getting rid of frames - the
"I want to have the same menu on every page without repeating it" is the
benefit that I hear most often and that's easily solved with includes:
http://www.bignosebird.com/sdocs/include.shtml

I'm aware that you should reconsider the moment you want to you frames but
I think frames serve a purpous on my site so I'll just keep my frames.
David

[Jeffrey Silverman]

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:52:50 +0200, David de Kloet wrote:

Hi,

My website uses frames and one should always load the frameset and not
only one of the frames. Is there a nice way to ensure/check that a page is
actualy loaded within a frameset?

thanks,

David

Yes. Never, *ever*, use frames.

problem solved.
--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Johns Hopkins University | Baltimore, MD
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Marc]

> > My website uses frames and one should always load the frameset and not

only one of the frames. Is there a nice way to ensure/check that a page is actualy loaded within a frameset?

Yes. Never, *ever*, use frames.

problem solved.

That's silly. There are several places when using frames is a good idea.
One example that comes to mind is firmware for a router or somesuch that has
a web interface. No PHP or ASP server can be run there, so frames provide a
good way to show a menu on all pages.

If they were pointless, then W3C would have depreciated them long ago.

[Jeffrey Silverman]

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:28:33 +0100, Marc wrote:

> My website uses frames and one should always load the frameset and not
> only one of the frames. Is there a nice way to ensure/check that a
> page is > actualy loaded within a frameset?

Yes. Never, *ever*, use frames.

problem solved.

That's silly. There are several places when using frames is a good idea.
One example that comes to mind is firmware for a router or somesuch that
has a web interface. No PHP or ASP server can be run there, so frames
provide a good way to show a menu on all pages.

If they were pointless, then W3C would have depreciated them long ago.

Yes, but he is not developing firmware for a router, is he?

As far a 94.8% of website devlopment goes, frames are a bad idea. This
means, for all intents and purposes, *never* use frames.

Allright, allright, I get your point. Okay, I amend my statement.

Only use frames if you *really* *really* *really* know what you are doing,
or are developing firmware for a router.

later...
--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | jeffrey AT jhu DOT edu
Johns Hopkins University | Baltimore, MD
Website | http://www.wse.jhu.edu/newtnotes/

[Steve Pugh]

"Marc" <[e-mail] > wrote:

That's silly. There are several places when using frames is a good idea.
One example that comes to mind is firmware for a router or somesuch that has
a web interface. No PHP or ASP server can be run there, so frames provide a
good way to show a menu on all pages.
1. Why do you need to show a menu on all pages? Isn't a link back to a
dedicated menu page as good if not better?
2. Even if you need to show a menu on all pages why does it need to be
in a frame and not part of the real page?
If they were pointless, then W3C would have depreciated them long ago.

ITYM deprecated (no 'i'). And is 1997 long enough ago for you? Frames
were deprecated as soon as they were standardised.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

[David de Kloet]

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Jeffrey Silverman wrote:

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:28:33 +0100, Marc wrote:

Yes. Never, *ever*, use frames.

problem solved.
That's silly. There are several places when using frames is a good idea.
One example that comes to mind is firmware for a router or somesuch that
has a web interface. No PHP or ASP server can be run there, so frames
provide a good way to show a menu on all pages.

If they were pointless, then W3C would have depreciated them long ago.

Yes, but he is not developing firmware for a router, is he?

No I'm not. I have two frames, left and right. At the left you can search
a database and get results. If you click on a search result at the left,
the frame at the right displays details about the chosen result.

If you know "Magic: the Gathering" you can try it at:
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~dskloet/magic

How would you replace these frames?

As far a 94.8% of website devlopment goes, frames are a bad idea. This
means, for all intents and purposes, *never* use frames.

Allright, allright, I get your point. Okay, I amend my statement.

Only use frames if you *really* *really* *really* know what you are doing,
or are developing firmware for a router.

later...

David

[David Dorward]

PeterMcC wrote:

Putting the following in the head of your pages will mean that, in the
event of a frame being loaded without the frameset, the page will default
to index.html. Whilst this doesn't give the visitor the framed page that
they were expecting, it does give them a complete frameset with a menu so
that they can at least navigate the site.

Example of what happens when you use this method. (Real example)

A user (lets call him 'David Dorward') searches Google for information.
David finds a site with the information.
David clicks the link and waits for page to load.
David looks for the information.
He can't find it.
After a while he goes back to google and looks for a different side with the
information on it.

(Then becuase he can't find any other site (unusual) he disables JS, goes
back to the site, and notices that it looks entirely different to the way
it looked last time - becuase without JS he didn't get redirected to the
homepage).
--
David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/20...ces-ie-is-dead

[Isofarro]

Marc wrote:

Yes. Never, *ever*, use frames.

problem solved.

That's silly. There are several places when using frames is a good idea.

As a cheap-man's server side include a good idea it isn't.
--
Iso.
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