nested frames

[bird]

I want to write a multi-frame web page. At level one, it has
two frames, saying LEFT and RIGHT. At level two, I split the RIGHT frame
into two again, saying UPPER_RIGHT and LOWER_RIGHT.
The LEFT frame contains a menu. The reason I need two levels
is because each menu item needs different UPPER_RIGHT and
LOWER_RIGHT frames. I just found that I could not nest frames.
Can someone please tell how to write such a web page?

thank you

[Mark Parnell]

In our last episode, bird <bi**@village.o rg> pronounced to
comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:

I want to write a multi-frame web page.
Why?

Problems with frames:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/design/frames/whatswrong.html
http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
http://dorward.me.uk/www/frames/

Search Engines and Frames:
http://www.google.com/webmasters/2.html (see under "Your pages use
frames")
http://searchenginewatch.com/webmast...le.php/2167901

Using Frames Properly:
http://www.markparnell.com.au/articles/frames.php
I just found that I could not nest frames.
You can, but it's only going to compound the problems.
Can someone please tell how to write such a web page?

We could, but then we'd have to kill you.

--
Mark Parnell
http://clarkecomputers.com.au

[Rob_W]

bird wrote:

I want to write a multi-frame web page. At level one, it has
two frames, saying LEFT and RIGHT. At level two, I split the RIGHT frame
into two again, saying UPPER_RIGHT and LOWER_RIGHT.
The LEFT frame contains a menu. The reason I need two levels
is because each menu item needs different UPPER_RIGHT and
LOWER_RIGHT frames. I just found that I could not nest frames.
Can someone please tell how to write such a web page?

thank you

You have two problems:

1. Frames are out
You have just started a threat in wich a lot of people will be arguing
the pros and cons of using frames.
This will develop into a kind of global frames-war.

2. The problem in itself is so minor, that by posting this question you
will invite a lot of answers like:
"Google is your friend"
"Have you searched the web?"
"Find an existing website that looks the same and study the code"
Actually, if I hadn't been in a writing mood, I would probably have
given one of these answers.

Good luck.

RW

[Philip Ronan]

"bird" wrote:

I want to write a multi-frame web page.

Stop wanting that.

Try doing things properly instead. Here's a good place to start:
<http://www.allmyfaqs.c om/faq.pl?Include_ one_file_in_ano ther>

--
phil [dot] ronan @ virgin [dot] net
http://vzone.virgin.net/phil.ronan/

[Jake]

In message <di**********@m ailhub227.itcs. purdue.edu>, bird
<bi**@village.o rg> writes

I want to write a multi-frame web page. At level one, it has
two frames, saying LEFT and RIGHT. At level two, I split the RIGHT frame
into two again, saying UPPER_RIGHT and LOWER_RIGHT.
The LEFT frame contains a menu. The reason I need two levels
is because each menu item needs different UPPER_RIGHT and
LOWER_RIGHT frames. I just found that I could not nest frames.
Can someone please tell how to write such a web page?

thank you


Sure.

You realise, of course, that your post will wake up the frame-o-phobes,
who will then explain to you why the use of frames will bring about the
end of civilization as we know it ;-)

Anyway, here's a good example (and you may want to read the rest of the
section):

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/present/frames.html

In the example, the page will look like a mirror-image of your
requirements-- but should give you an idea of how to write the HTML.

In your case, you'll need (in basic terms) something like:

<frameset cols="30%, 70%">
<frame src="left_frame .htm" name="Menu">
<frameset rows="100, 200">
<frame src="upper_righ t.htm" name="descripti ve name of this
frame.">
<frame src="lower_righ t.htm" name="descripti ve name of this
frame.">
</frameset>
etc.

The w3c reference will show you how to set the various proportions of
the frames on the screen.

Post back if you've still got problems.

regards

PS. Do understand that you will not be able to fill both frames
simultaneously with content from a single 'click' on the menu. For that
you are probably going to need javascript -- so if that's what your
thinking of doing, you should visit one of the javascript NGs.

--
Jake (ja**@gododdin. demon.co.uk -- just a 'spam trap' mail address)

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Jake wrote:

You realise, of course, that your post will wake up the
frame-o-phobes, who will then explain to you why the use of frames
will bring about the end of civilization as we know it ;-)
You've got the wrong end of the stick here. You're talking to web
page authors - but the more experienced authors here know that it's
discerning *readers* who hate frames.

Authoring good web pages isn't just about what appeals to authors, but
about producing a product that will be useful to one's readers. If
you want to convince *readers* that frames are so wonderful, this
might not be the right place to do it.
Anyway, here's a good example (and you may want to read the rest of the
section):

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/present/frames.html ^^^^^^^

There's a clue in there. "Present"at ion nowadays[1] belongs in the
stylesheet, not in the HTML.
<frameset cols="30%, 70%">
<frame src="left_frame .htm" name="Menu">
<frameset rows="100, 200">
<frame src="upper_righ t.htm" name="descripti ve name of this frame.">
<frame src="lower_righ t.htm" name="descripti ve name of this frame.">
</frameset>
etc.
One of the most important parts of a frames design is completely
missing from your example!
Post back if you've still got problems.

More to the point, your *readers* will get problems (but will they
bother to tell you about them - or just quietly leave?). Posting here
might go some way to helping an author to alleviate those problems
(for example, creating a different URL for every frameset
configuration so that bookmarking isn't sabotaged), but some of them
are so fundamental that it might be better to completely reconsider
the problem.

best
[1] this *had* always been the underlying plan, although the vendors
(starting with the "Mosaic Communications Corporation" managed to
obfuscate it with presentational quasi-HTML for far too long.

[Andreas Prilop]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Jake wrote:

In your case, you'll need (in basic terms) something like:

<frameset cols="30%, 70%">
<frame src="left_frame .htm" name="Menu">
<frameset rows="100, 200">
<frame src="upper_righ t.htm" name="descripti ve name of this
frame.">
<frame src="lower_righ t.htm" name="descripti ve name of this
frame.">
</frameset>
etc.

Don't forget

<noframes>
<img alt="Valid HTML 4.01 Frameset" src=...>
</noframes>

as suggested by validator.w3.or g.

--
One of the most common operations performed in a Web page
is to detect the browser type and version.
Found on http://msdn.microsoft.com

[Shawn K. Quinn]

begin quotation
from bird <bi**@village.o rg>
in message <di**********@m ailhub227.itcs. purdue.edu>
posted at 2005-10-14T04:21

I want to write a multi-frame web page.

If frames were so great, Netscape Corporation (since bought by AOL)
would still be using them today. As it stands, Netscape Corporation
dumped their frames site within a matter of months.

Frames are obsolete. Any other method of trying to solve the same
problems is a step up.

--
___ _ _____ |*|
/ __| |/ / _ \ |*| Shawn K. Quinn
\__ \ ' < (_) | |*| sk*****@speakea sy.net
|___/_|\_\__\_\ |*| Houston, TX, USA

[Darin McGrew]

Jake <ja**@gododdin. demon.co.uk> wrote:

PS. Do understand that you will not be able to fill both frames
simultaneously with content from a single 'click' on the menu. For that
you are probably going to need javascript -- so if that's what your
thinking of doing, you should visit one of the javascript NGs.

The answer to the FAQ "How do I update two frames at once?"
<http://www.htmlhelp.co m/faq/html/frames.html#fra me-update2> includes a
non-JavaScript solution that works more reliably than the JavaScript
solutions.

But see also: http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/html/fra...frame-problems
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanford alumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp. com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"What is the use of running when you are not on the right road?"

[Stephen Poley]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:13:22 +0100, Jake <ja**@gododdin. demon.co.uk>
wrote:

You realise, of course, that your post will wake up the frame-o-phobes,
who will then explain to you why the use of frames will bring about the
end of civilization as we know it ;-)

Whereas much of what has been espoused in c.i.w.a.* for the last five
years or so is still being widely ignored, the market actually does seem
to have caught on to the need to ditch frames.

When I had a discussion on this with a site owner a few months ago, I
took the trouble of checking some 15 or 16 sites belonging to his
customers and competitors.

Just one used frames.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/