C# developers going back to vb.net

[Kevin]

I don't know if I should even start this topic but here goes.
I'm an ex vb6 developer, now developing in C#.
The reason why I started developing in C# is because the company that I
worked for at the time standarised on C#.

Many of my friends working in previous companies that I worked for are
starting to move back to VB.Net. When I asked them why, it seems that
the next release of VB.Net seems very promising and they kinda see
themselves in the same position I'm in. It seems that at the time when
..Net was first released many companies basically forced developers to
work in C# because as in my case the company they worked for
standarised on C#, why these companies did this is beyond me because
most of their developers were vb developers, I think it's because it
was marketed that C# was the main language to use on the .Net
Framework.

Now many companies as well as management in these companies are
starting to realise that vb.net is not that different from c# and are
starting to give their developers a choice and thus obviously the move
back to vb.

The reason why I'm posting this topic here is because I'm wondering how
many developers using c# are ex vb developers and would actually like
to develop in vb.net. I have actually convinced my superiors to use
vb.net as another language choice and they have agreed.

We have just started a new project in vb.net about 3 mths ago and I
must say that it's still a damn fun language to work in, I'm actually
enjoying my work again. Productivity couldn't be higher as other c# (ex
vb6) developers in my department have also wanted to go back.

Wondering how many of you out there would like to move back to the
lighter side of life?

[Kevin]

APM,

Yes, moving from one enviroment to another is always a problem no
matter what language is chosen on the framework. VB.Net is vastly
different from VB or VB 6, just getting used to some of the keywords in
the beginning can be a problem ie: NotInheritable (don't know how they
came up with this one, they probably thought that vb guys wouldn't be
able to pronounce the keyword sealed), and what about moving from Java
to C#, Final becomes Sealed. In the end you would end up with bugs if
you do not understand the enviroment as well as the syntactical issues.

This is actually what I was getting at in my original post.
Why the move from vb 6 to c# in the first place? This just adds more
complexity, not only a new enviroment but a new language syntax as
well, can you imagine the buggy code in this situation. I think this is
why ex vb developers are moving back to vb.net from c# for this exact
same reason. Looks like you made the right decision moving from Visual
C/C++ to C++.Net or C#, at least you are familiar and enjoy the c style
syntax and all that needs to be done is to learn the enviroment and
framework. Imagine if you had to go to VB.Net because you got paid more
or your manager was under the impression that VB.Net is the native
language on the .Net framework.

Kevin

[alYsa]

I think people that were developing with VB should not be developers at all.
:)
There is some truth in that - cause they are rooted so much in bad
methodologies and crap code - that they are very useless in understanding
proper OO programming. So if they use vb.net - then nothing changes - they do
the same crap procedural code - just they think that they are programming OO
cause vb.net supposed to be OO language.
So in my opinion every VB developer should go to C# - so they would forget
everything they knew about VB - it does not work that way as it used to.
And who says that this:

if VB Is Nothing then
csharp = "great"
end if

is easier on eyes than this:

if (VB == null) {
csharp = "great";
}
Any adult and kid understands that reading symbol (bracket) is much easier
to spot than reading a word . So you do not even have to read C# sytax - it
is obviuos from a glance - and you HAVE TO read VB.Net syntax and it takes
longer to understand.
So VB developers - it is time to grow up for you.

[Cor Ligthert [MVP]]

Alysa,

There is in my opinion enough told in this thread that has a higher value
than your probably try to create a trolling thread (just asking others not
to react on this).

Just read what is written and you have replies enough with a higer value no
matter if I agree with what is written or not.

Whatever that you write as reply on this, you get no reply on that from me

Cor

[alYsa]

I am expressing my oppinion and not looking for values.
Are you sure you do not want to grow up?

"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" wrote:

Alysa,

There is in my opinion enough told in this thread that has a higher value
than your probably try to create a trolling thread (just asking others not
to react on this).

Just read what is written and you have replies enough with a higer value no
matter if I agree with what is written or not.

Whatever that you write as reply on this, you get no reply on that from me

Cor

[rsboze]

While I do think there is room in this world for VB Developers, I have to
agree with alYsa that many of them like to think that using an OO language is
the same as applying OO principles. I can't tell you the number of VB.Net
developers we interviewed at my company that had the phrase "Object Oriented"
all over their resume, but when they were asked to give a basic example of OO
in action, they couldn't do it. I think C# lends itself more to good
programming disciplines than VB does. That's not to say that all (or even
most) VB developers are undisciplined, just that it takes a more conscious
effort to be disciplined when using VB than it does with C#.


"alYsa" wrote:

I think people that were developing with VB should not be developers at all.
:)
There is some truth in that - cause they are rooted so much in bad
methodologies and crap code - that they are very useless in understanding
proper OO programming. So if they use vb.net - then nothing changes - they do
the same crap procedural code - just they think that they are programming OO
cause vb.net supposed to be OO language.
So in my opinion every VB developer should go to C# - so they would forget
everything they knew about VB - it does not work that way as it used to.
And who says that this:

if VB Is Nothing then
csharp = "great"
end if

is easier on eyes than this:

if (VB == null) {
csharp = "great";
}
Any adult and kid understands that reading symbol (bracket) is much easier
to spot than reading a word . So you do not even have to read C# sytax - it
is obviuos from a glance - and you HAVE TO read VB.Net syntax and it takes
longer to understand.
So VB developers - it is time to grow up for you.

[Mike Hofer]

"Kevin" wrote:

This is actually what I was getting at in my original post.
Why the move from vb 6 to c# in the first place? This just adds more
complexity, not only a new enviroment but a new language syntax as
well, can you imagine the buggy code in this situation. I think this is
why ex vb developers are moving back to vb.net from c# for this exact
same reason. Looks like you made the right decision moving from Visual
C/C++ to C++.Net or C#, at least you are familiar and enjoy the c style
syntax and all that needs to be done is to learn the enviroment and
framework. Imagine if you had to go to VB.Net because you got paid more
or your manager was under the impression that VB.Net is the native
language on the .Net framework.

There are a plethora of reasons to move from VB 6 or VB.NET to C#. For
myself, they include the following:

1.) Broadening my skillset. I *like* to learn knew technologies. I like
knowing several different languages, and being able to choose the one that's
most suitable for the job at hand.

2.) Operator overloading. Visual Basic doesn't support it. (Yet.) C# does.

3.) I already knew C++ and Java; the migration from Java to C# wasn't all
that steep.

4.) C# is far more typesafe than Visual Basic. Visual Basic allows you to be
less strict by omitting Option Strict. In a team environment, that can be a
huge source of difficult to track bugs. C# code is always strict.

5.) Coding in C# helps me to break many of the bad habits I developed over
the years as a sloppy Visual Basic developer, and which still cling to me.
Things like the use of the ubiquitous Left(), Right(), Mid(), Upper() and
Lower() functions. Also, Visual Basic .NET still has support for modules,
which promote the use of global variables. Global Variables == DOOOOOOOOOOM.
C# has no direct support for modules (that I'm aware of--someone please
correct me if I'm wrong so that I can avoid it like the plague). C# makes me
write better code, and design better software by avoiding constructs and
VB-specific features.

As far as the whole "herd mentality" thing goes, I think you could flip that
argument around with equal effectiveness. For years, companies pushed Visual
Basic as the one and only tool for development of software. VAST amounts of
software was written in Visual Basic and most of it, in my experience, was
*crap* developed by developers who had no formal training (myself included)
and which wasn't designed for growth, stability, testability, extensibility,
or any of the other core attributes that make for high quality software.
Maintaining that software has been the bane of my existence since 1991.

At any rate, a lot of VB followers joined the VB herd because it was the
popular thing to do. The "herd mentality" also is responsible for letting
ridiculous hold-overs from VB6 creep into .NET. (1-based collections? ReDim
takes the upper index as its argument?! Come on!!!)

Now, having said all that, it's worth pointing out that I am a huge fan of
VB.NET, and still use it every day. I am moving towards C# because I think it
will make me a better programmer by enforcing better coding standards. Does
that make VB.NET a crap tool? Of course not. Does moving to C# make me less
than a man? Allow me to clear that up for you.

Not only no, but HELL no.

[Larry Lard]

alYsa wrote:
[snip]

And who says that this:

if VB Is Nothing then
csharp = "great"
end if

is easier on eyes than this:

if (VB == null) {
csharp = "great";
}
Any adult and kid understands that reading symbol (bracket) is much easier
to spot than reading a word .

I suspect that most psychologists and linguists would probably disagree
with you - ease of comprehension is certainly not a simple function of
symbol length. If that were so then a language whose syntax elements
were all single characters would be easiest of all to comprehend - and
I daresay that 'any adult and kid' would understand that that would not
be so. When someone who can read English well reads English which
contains only words they know, they tend to parse at a *word* level
rather than at a letter level. Which might suggest that VB's more
English-like syntax makes for *easier* comprehension, not harder...

--
Larry Lard
Replies to group please

[Jorge]

VB.net and C#.net who cares, usually you will find a way in either language.
I just love the fact that I have an option. I feel more confortable with C#,
can I do VB? yes, but, it is how I feel and how much less code I want to
write.

Jorge

[joe mamma]

"alYsa" wrote:

I think people that were developing with VB should not be developers at all.
:)
There is some truth in that - cause they are rooted so much in bad
methodologies and crap code - that they are very useless in understanding
proper OO programming. So if they use vb.net - then nothing changes - they do
the same crap procedural code - just they think that they are programming OO
cause vb.net supposed to be OO language.
So in my opinion every VB developer should go to C# - so they would forget
everything they knew about VB - it does not work that way as it used to.

Alysa, you are so correct! I think I am in love!!!

VBSUX was the worst peiece of crap over unleashed. The syntax led to
worthless code. the VB.Not syntax perpetuates the sin!

look at the syntax for declaring variables to see the problem. . .

I think 'Give me an interger called foo set to bar:

C#:
int foo = bar

I dont think "dimension some memory called foo that will hold an integer and
store bar in it":

VB.Not:
dim foo as integer = bar

Now look at the IDE's -

C#: I can drop a control on a form in c# and go directly to the property
window| events tab and double click and create an event.

VB.NOT: drop a control, switch to code, select the control from the combo at
the right top. . . soll through the events for the control in the combo on
the right. what a pain in the frickin a$$

Can we talk about VBSUX developers (and I use the word loosly) for a second?
9 out of 10 of them were totally confused by databinding and are going to
hate .net. Most of these morons were opening recordsets and itereating though
the recordsets and loading the values directly into their controls. What
idiots!!!!

Also, there were things you simply couldn't do in VBSUX. I won't elaborate,
just trust me. . . you couldn't do it. Ok you forced me - Form inheritance,
multithreading sophisticated COM+ development. 'But how often do we really
need that?' you might counter. . .

My response, 'If you dont know, you wouldn't understand. . . Can I talk to
your clients??? And while I steal your business, take a look at delphi.'

hmmm. . . didn't Microsoft pay the guy who developed the far superior delphi
a shitload of money to leave borland and come on board to develop .net???

Microsoft, take your VB development team out back and shoot them. . . and
then shoot their mothers for bearing them! Protect the gene pool and shoot
their sisters, too!!!

[Kevin]

Joe, I think you should pop a tranquilizer son, you are far too
emotional.
Shooting the VB Team, their Mothers and Sisters is a little uncalled
for.
Maybe we should ask Microsoft to drop Edit and Continue in C# as it's a
VB
feature, would this make you feel better?

Believe me just because you think the language you work in has nicer
looking keywords doesn't make you a better developer.

Kevin