Is there some way --using, say, DOM or javascript-- to detect the
current pixel width and/or height of a relatively sized table or of
one of its columns or rows. I'm going to be writing javascript to
adjust my page to the viewer's browser window dimensions and this
would sure be great information to have.
Thanks ....
Dennis
Jul 20 '05
157  16456 
Dennis wrote:
Well, that's a swell "solution." A site presented in Flash is my
cue to hit the back button.
Look at your words carefully. Your only criticism of Flash is that
you don't like it and avoid it.
What's to like? It's used only for ads and gratuitous "kewl" effects.
That's hardly a "criticism" , or maybe you are just venting your
feelings. Sorry I upset you.
No sweat off my nose. Keep up the cluelessness.
--
Brian
follow the directions in my address to email me
Dennis wrote: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:26:10 -0500, kchayka <kc*********@si hope.com>
wrote:
You have decided that this look you envision is more important than
usability and accessibility?
No. I am doing it in Flash precisely for usability. A page is more
usable if the user can see at a glance where everything is and not
have to scroll around to find it.
You are mistaken if you think Flash is the answer. You cannot predict
what the user's preferred window size, text size, or any other
environmental variable may be. The very nature of Flash encourages
inaccessible, inflexible layouts. The user's preference settings are
not part of the equation, thus Flash cannot adapt to the user's settings.
This means that you will create a site that only "works" in a very
narrow band of screen resolution, window size and text size. The rest
of us will be out of luck. If your goal is usability, then your best
bet is a liquid layout that adjusts well to different window and text
sizes. This Flash cannot do, at least I have never seen it done.
And steps can be taken to make it also accessible.
Whatever you do on this front will be inadequate, since Flash's
accessibility features on the authoring side are inadequate.
Accessibility features in the Flash player are pretty much non-existent,
so we users are at your mercy. Just what we need, another unusable Flash site. <heavy sigh>
Take out "unusable" from your comment and it too loses its force.
I have yet to find a Flash site that is usable for me. I am not very
optimistic that whatever you come up with will be any different.
--
To email a reply, remove (dash)un(dash). Mail sent to the un
address is considered spam and automatically deleted.
In article <52************ *************** *****@4ax.com> in
comp.infosystem s. www.authoring.html, Dennis
<theonlyDennis@ removeForSpam_m indspring.com> wrote: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:50:26 -0400, Stan Brown
<th*********** *@fastmail.fm> wrote:So your choice by using Flash is for complete success or complete
failure, as opposed to 100% success or partial success if you don't
use Flash.
Something like 97% of web surfers out there do. And those few who
don't can easily get it. End of problem.
97%, huh? Why did you make up that particular number? Why didn't you
say 95%? or 99.2% or 67.1%?
But what will _really_ happen is that people will go to your site,
see that it depends on Flash, and go elsewhere, unless you offer
content that they want and can't get anywhere else, which seems
unlikely.
Why do you post here if you don't want to listen to the feedback you
get?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:29:01 -0400, "EightNineThree " <uc*@ftc.gov>
wrote: You obviously don't have the slightest clue about what usability is.
Obviously.
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:02:52 GMT, ti**@greytower. net (Tina Holmboe)
wrote: You are right; a page is more usable if the user can see at a glance
where everything is and not have to scroll around it.
Your mistake is making the assumption that you are able to ensure that
this is the case.
No authoring environment (flash, CSS, DHTML, straight HTML) can fit
more onto the screen than the screen can hold, so you can't blame me
for not ensuring that. But with Flash, I have complete control in
filling up the window that the user gives me. There are 2 relevant
Flash ActionScript commands, stage.width and stage.height. These tell
you within a pixel how big the user's window is. If the window is big
enough to hold the content, I can put the content wherever I choose to
make it easiest to see. If the content is too great for the window, I
can either put multiple "pages" in or put in good old fashioned scroll
bars --horizontal or vertical as I choose. It's like CSS on steroids.
Your job is making sure the document itself can adapt to the users
situation. Assuming you know anything at all regarding said situation
is arrogant and a pointless waste of time.
I agree! I don't assume to know the user's situation (eg. window
size) is, but I can program Flash for WHATEVER it might be. That's my
whole point. Without Flash (or a more mature CSS) I have to aim at the
middle of the bell curve (what, 800 by 600?) and let automatic
scrolling and huge empty borders do the rest. It's very ironic
because I attempting to accomplish in a more thoroughgoing way
precisely what you are saying that I am ignoring.
Dennis
Sometime around Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:37:52 -0700, Dennis is reported to have
stated: Without Flash (or a more mature CSS) I have to aim at the
middle of the bell curve (what, 800 by 600?) and let automatic
scrolling and huge empty borders do the rest.
Not at all. The web is fluid by nature. If you don't specify fixed sizes,
then the page will flow automatically.
It's very ironic
because I attempting to accomplish in a more thoroughgoing way
precisely what you are saying that I am ignoring.
And what of the users that don't have Flash? You are ignoring them?
--
Mark Parnell http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 04:44:06 -0500, kchayka <kc*********@si hope.com>
wrote: You are mistaken if you think Flash is the answer. You cannot predict
what the user's preferred window size, text size, or any other
environmenta l variable may be. The very nature of Flash encourages
inaccessible , inflexible layouts. The user's preference settings are
not part of the equation, thus Flash cannot adapt to the user's settings.
This means that you will create a site that only "works" in a very
narrow band of screen resolution, window size and text size. The rest
of us will be out of luck. If your goal is usability, then your best
bet is a liquid layout that adjusts well to different window and text
sizes. This Flash cannot do, at least I have never seen it done.
Now I think I see the problem. You and others at this NG have seen so
much bad Flash out there that you have a misunderstandin gs about the
program itself. For instance, did you know that you can stretch the
Flash "object" to fill up the entire browser window? And the objects
in it won't themselves have to stretch. At any moment you have access
to the exact pixel dimensions of the user's window. You program Flash
to respond accordingly (if you're a good programmer and care about
what people of all browser sizes and shapes see). Alas, most Flash
uses are obnoxious ads (I use PopUp Cop!) or fixed size movies that
are centered in the browser window. It doesn't have to be that at
all. And steps can be taken to make it also accessible.
Whatever you do on this front will be inadequate, since Flash's
accessibilit y features on the authoring side are inadequate.
Accessibilit y features in the Flash player are pretty much non-existent,
so we users are at your mercy.
There are plusses and minuses on that and I think it comes out a
wash. For example, did you know that you can zoom in on a Flash
movie? I mean way close, and scroll through words 5 inches high.
HTML can't do that. As far as screen readers go, only one I know of
can read Flash movies now, but if someone has to use a screen reader
we're talking 100% text now and it wouldn't be hard to provide an
alternate link for that.
I have yet to find a Flash site that is usable for me. I am not very
optimistic that whatever you come up with will be any different.
Keep an open mind, I'll be back with a URL before long....
Dennis
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:11:22 GMT, ti**@greytower. net (Tina Holmboe)
wrote: Dennis <theonlyDennis@ removeForSpam_m indspring.com> exclaimed in <52************ *************** *****@4ax.com>:
Something like 97% of web surfers out there do. And those few who
don't can easily get it. End of problem.
Flash is not available for all users or all UAs. Depending on it is
not useful.
Of course, with the arrogance your posting shows, "useful" wouldn't
be your first priority.
I was wrong, it's 98.6%. And if that isn't enough, those other 1.4%
are not locked out in any way. All they have to do is click on a link
that says "get Flash." But I would be very appreciative if you could
elaborate on my "arrogance. " I really don't understand the hostility
I have generated in this NG. How am I being arrogant?
Dennis
Dennis wrote:
But with Flash, I have complete control in
filling up the window that the user gives me.
That's swell. But since Flash has nothing to do with html, nor
stylesheets, why don't you bring your nifty "solution" elsewhere?
--
Brian
follow the directions in my address to email me
On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 05:51:20 GMT, Brian
<us*****@juliet remblay.com.inv alid-remove-this-part> wrote: Dennis wrote:
Something like 97% of web surfers out there do.
Source, please. Or did you just make this up?
Here ya go,
http://www.macromedia.com/software/p...s/flashplayer/
And those few who don't can easily get it.
If it's available, they can consider getting it. Whether they
actually go to the trouble of downloading and installing software for
your content is another matter.
Well all you can do is make something available to people. If they
refuse to use it, that's not your problem. The Flash player is free
and easy to get and install. End of problem.
Keep deluding yourself.
How am I deluding myself? This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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