Should I use frames?

[Murray R. Van Luyn]

Hi,

Is using frames in a website as big an issue nowadays as it was maybe 5 or
so years ago? I can remember that you used to have to have a frame site, as
well as a non frame site for browsers that didn't support the framed
version. I wonder whether newer browsers have fixed that problem, and I can
now use frames without fear?

Regards,
Murray R. Van Luyn.

[Spartanicus]

"Murray R. Van Luyn" <va******@NOSPA M.iinet.net.auw rote:

>Is using frames in a website as big an issue nowadays as it was maybe 5 or
so years ago? I can remember that you used to have to have a frame site, as
well as a non frame site for browsers that didn't support the framed
version. I wonder whether newer browsers have fixed that problem, and I can
now use frames without fear?

http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Problems_with_using_frames

--
Spartanicus

[Murray R. Van Luyn]

"Spartanicu s" <in*****@invali d.invalidwrote in message
news:ts******** *************** *********@4ax.c om...

"Murray R. Van Luyn" <va******@NOSPA M.iinet.net.auw rote:

>>Is using frames in a website as big an issue nowadays as it was maybe 5 or
so years ago? I can remember that you used to have to have a frame site,
as
well as a non frame site for browsers that didn't support the framed
version. I wonder whether newer browsers have fixed that problem, and I
can
now use frames without fear?

http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Problems_with_using_frames

--
Spartanicus

Thanks Spartanicus.

I was hoping to use a menu bar with frames to avoid having to repeat the
menu code for each page. It seems that I may be able to include common menu
bar code on each page using PHP's 'include' directive. That's easy!

That's set me in the right direction.

Regards,
Murray R. Van Luyn.

[TreeNet Webmaster]

In article <ts************ *************** *****@4ax.com>,
in*****@invalid .invalid says...

"Murray R. Van Luyn" <va******@NOSPA M.iinet.net.auw rote:

Is using frames in a website as big an issue nowadays as it was maybe 5 or
so years ago? I can remember that you used to have to have a frame site, as
well as a non frame site for browsers that didn't support the framed
version. I wonder whether newer browsers have fixed that problem, and I can
now use frames without fear?

http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Problems_with_using_frames

Useful page. What it does not say however is that if you _really_ need
to include whole other pages (the main attraction of frames) you can
easily use the tags OBJECT or IFRAME (for IE) to do the include job
nicely without a horrific nest of frameset pages.

My simple reason for not usig frames:
Most visitors come in through a search engine which will point
them at the page with the words, NOT your high-level frame page.

AJ

[TreeNet Webmaster]

In article <458cffc6$0$117 13$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-
01.iinet.net.au >, va******@NOSPAM .iinet.net.au says...

"Spartanicu s" <in*****@invali d.invalidwrote in message
news:ts******** *************** *********@4ax.c om...

"Murray R. Van Luyn" <va******@NOSPA M.iinet.net.auw rote:

>Is using frames in a website as big an issue nowadays as it was maybe 5 or
so years ago? I can remember that you used to have to have a frame site,
as
well as a non frame site for browsers that didn't support the framed
version. I wonder whether newer browsers have fixed that problem, and I
can
now use frames without fear?

http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Problems_with_using_frames

--
Spartanicus

Thanks Spartanicus.

I was hoping to use a menu bar with frames to avoid having to repeat the
menu code for each page. It seems that I may be able to include common menu
bar code on each page using PHP's 'include' directive. That's easy!

That's set me in the right direction.

Regards,
Murray R. Van Luyn.

Hmm, if its just for the menu. I would make the menu a php page and use
an OBJECT/IFRAME tag to include it. PHP pages are not usually cachable
by proxy servers or spider bots.

AJ

[Spartanicus]

TreeNet Webmaster <we*******@tree net.co.nzwrote:

>I was hoping to use a menu bar with frames to avoid having to repeat the
menu code for each page. It seems that I may be able to include common menu
bar code on each page using PHP's 'include' directive. That's easy!

That's set me in the right direction.

Hmm, if its just for the menu. I would make the menu a php page and use
an OBJECT/IFRAME tag to include it.

Whilst using either element if you _really_ need to embed a whole other
page might be ok (I'd question if there is ever a good reason to want
that, and another solution should be considered first), using either to
include a non complete page is very much the wrong thing to do.

When using an <objectelemen t you have no way to get the links to open
in the "parent" window. Using <iframemeans that you lose some
validation features due to the fact that <iframeis only permitted in
Transitional, plus <iframehas client support issues and its also not
uncommon for them to be switched off in the browser by a user or
filtered out by ad stripping utilities.

>PHP pages are not usually cachable
by proxy servers or spider bots.

Cacheability should indeed not simply be sacrificed, but PHP generated
pages can be made cacheable if the author has control over the web
server configuration.

--
Spartanicus

[patrick j]

Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:

I was hoping to use a menu bar with frames to avoid having to repeat the
menu code for each page. It seems that I may be able to include common menu
bar code on each page using PHP's 'include' directive. That's easy!

That's set me in the right direction.

I think that is the best way to do it.

Personally I just just a text editor with good multi-file searching and
GREP find/replace. So, if I want to change the "menus" which are
repeated on every page I just do it with a find/replace across all the
files.

However I am doing this in a situation which may be very different from
yours of course :)

--
Patrick
Brighton, UK

<http://www.patrickjame s.me.uk>

[David Dorward]

Spartanicus wrote:

>>PHP pages are not usually cachable
by proxy servers or spider bots.

Cacheability should indeed not simply be sacrificed, but PHP generated
pages can be made cacheable if the author has control over the web
server configuration.

Or even if they don't. PHP lets authors specify whatever HTTP headers they
like, so cache control can be handled that way.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me .uk/ <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is

[Ed Seedhouse]

On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 17:56:48 -0800, "Murray R. Van Luyn"
<va******@NOSPA M.iinet.net.auw rote:

>Hi,

Is using frames in a website as big an issue nowadays as it was maybe 5 or
so years ago? I can remember that you used to have to have a frame site, as
well as a non frame site for browsers that didn't support the framed
version. I wonder whether newer browsers have fixed that problem, and I can
now use frames without fear?

Pretty well the oposite, really. It's even more important to stay away
from frames today. You can do anything you could do with them by
different methods. They are generally considered a bad idea and using
them a bad practice.

[David E. Ross]

Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:

Hi,

Is using frames in a website as big an issue nowadays as it was maybe 5 or
so years ago? I can remember that you used to have to have a frame site, as
well as a non frame site for browsers that didn't support the framed
version. I wonder whether newer browsers have fixed that problem, and I can
now use frames without fear?

You should evaluate the use of frames from a design standpoint. Most
pages with frames merely demonstrate how clever (and annoying) the Web
author is. Those pages exhibit no good reason for the use of frames.
On the other hand, some pages are well designed because they use frames.
See for example, <http://cad.chp.ca.gov/>.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Concerned about someone (e.g., Pres. Bush) snooping
into your E-mail? Use PGP.
See my <http://www.rossde.com/PGP/>