I am a bit curious about this.
The graphic design people I work with say it is their preferred font for
web pages. The reason being that it is "kinder" to the eye both in terms
of shape and size.
The HTML "hardcore elititst" profess that it is a useless font because
it is too big compared to other fonts.
Personally I do not care one way or the other, but I generally trust
graphic designers more than programmers and rules lawyers when it comes
to pure design.
It seems to me that the only argument against using Verdana is that a
large number of browsers do not support it and therefore it causes their
pages to render with a very small font.
Can anyone honestly say they do not have the Verdana font installed?
Jul 21 '05
300  18478 
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@ex ample.invalid> wrote in message
news:3a******** *****@individua l.net... me wrote:
I infer from your comment that you disagree but you didn't specify
exactly how. IMO if those designers are wrong then their sites
should be shunned but since that's clearly not the case we must
assume their visitors like their sites and hence don't mind fixed
fonts sizes and non-fluid layouts.
No, we can't assume that they don't mind it or like it.
Then you refuse to belive that many of the most popular sites use fixed font
sizes and non-fluid layouts, in that case we must agree to disagree.
We may just as well assume that if they really want to buy that
[product] they will *endure* it.
Or override the font size *if* they require it.
Or, we may assume that they had their grandson with the good eyes
place the order for them.
Or override the font size *if* they require it.
Or, we might assume that they just hit the Back button to their search
engine, and selected a site they *could* read.
Or they like the choices the designer made and they stay as they often do at
www.weather.com.
And, we might also assume that the site may do a significantly higher
amount of business if it used flexible font sizing ...
A significant number of people use www.weather.com , we therefore *know*
they like the site. Even so people are not helpless, many (most?) know how
to override font size if they require it.
Signed,
me
In article <Mc************ ********@comcas t.com>, SeaPlusPlus <Se*********@ho tmail.com> wrote: >SeaPlusPlu s wrote:Truth is h1 through h6 is just a syntax handle to
>>designa te font and font size (among other properties) larger and
>>smaller .Lauri Raittila wrote:No, actually that is not true. That is syntax to indicate different level
of headings, and make have no relevance at all on font size. SeaPlusPlus wrote:
(2.)
<sacrasm>
Oh right, <h1> through <h6> doesn't allow me to adjust font and font
size, how ignorant of me.
</sarcasm>
John C. Ring, Jr. wrote:
It doesn't :) The browser decides to render it in whatever size it deems
appropriate, taking into consideration any stylesheets it's been told about,
and/or any user settings.
Hi John...
First of all this was my sarcastic answer so I don't really want to
defend it, but where this discussion had started was when I listed my
***PRINTER** * stylesheet CSS for h1 through h6 and Lauri didn't like
that h6 was smaller font size selection than body text. I didn't realize
there were people here who would miquote my text to enable them to make
some obscure tangential point which is to make it appear that what I
said was in some way wrong.
This thread is quite long; things do get missed. But, looking back at one of
your previous posts not long ago in this thread, you did say
"Truth is h1 through h6 is just a syntax handle to
designate font and font size (among other properties) larger and
smaller. The keyword 'header' is not to be taken TOOOOOOO literaly
because the logical extension is something is missing how can we have
<hn> for 'HEADER' without <fn> FOOTER ! ! ! ;-)"
"So, I'll defend using h6 at a smaller than body size"
That is in fact the point of view I was disagreeing with you on. And it is
pretty normal that only a portion of a post is responded, especially for long
postings. Happens to me all the time.
I know you said the original post was a print CSS. I was and am only refering
to your statement that it can be ok to markup something as Hx that is not
really a heading, such as a footer.
If you are marking up something as Hx *only* because
you wish it to be visually presented in some manner, then you have used the
wrong markup and your readers may not see something that ends up making much
sense.
I DIDN'T!!! What are you getting on my case for?
Respectfully, I am not getting on your case. I am pointing out my opinion
that the Hx elements should not be viewed mainly as a method to change the
font size, but a way to indicate logical portions of the document, and that
the fact that a typical visual browser changes the font and font size should
be viewed as a secondary effect, and not as a fact to be counted on occurring.
It has nothing to do with you personally.
A speaking browser, for example, may choose to increase the volume for all Hx
elements. Or a text-screen browser may bold all of them. And perhaps a small
mobile browser would not make the text smaller, as the text is already quite
small.
The point is I cannot predict how future browsing devices may choose to
"render" the Hx elements. Or even all current rendering devices on the market
today. But it does seem reasonable for me to assume that, if they are well
designed, if I use Hx elements as they are meant to be used, it will "render"
such markup in a usable fashion. For example, from your previous, recent posts, I imagine you'd never use some
Hx element instead of, say, BLOCKQUOTE, just because you liked the size of
it.
Notice I point out that I did NOT think you'd make such a poor decision.
Is this the worst thing you can do? Certainly not. It is quite possible you
are an excellent web author. As I said, I think the issue is that a web
author less skilled then yourself might decide that Hx elements *mean* "change
the font and size" and, unlike yourself, use them in utterly inappropriate
ways.
I am not trying to judge your web authoring skills, nor am I interested in
doing so - I merely disagreed with you on this specific matter. I apologize
if you took any offense; none was or is intended.
me wrote: "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@ex ample.invalid> wrote in
message news:3a******** *****@individua l.net...
me wrote:
I infer from your comment that you disagree but you didn't
specify exactly how. IMO if those designers are wrong then
their sites should be shunned but since that's clearly not the
case we must assume their visitors like their sites and hence
don't mind fixed fonts sizes and non-fluid layouts.
No, we can't assume that they don't mind it or like it.
Then you refuse to belive that many of the most popular sites use
fixed font sizes and non-fluid layouts, in that case we must agree
to disagree.
Please point to where I said that popular sites don't use fixed font
(and fluid layouts). That would be a dumb thing for me to try to
claim, because millions of them do. We may just as well assume that if they really want to buy that
[product] they will *endure* it.
Or override the font size *if* they require it.
Or, we may assume that they had their grandson with the good eyes
place the order for them.
Or override the font size *if* they require it.
<sigh> You just said that. Is this a macro? Or, we might assume that they just hit the Back button to their
search engine, and selected a site they *could* read.
Or they like the choices the designer made and they stay as they
often do at www.weather.com.
And, we might also assume that the site may do a significantly
higher amount of business if it used flexible font sizing ...
A significant number of people use www.weather.com , we therefore
*know* they like the site. Even so people are not helpless, many
(most?) know how to override font size if they require it.
Your reply and your arguments are ... grasping at straws. You have
nothing left. :-)
The majority of Web users do not know how to resize fonts. This has
been discussed many times in these groups.
And weather.com is popular because it is on all their cable tv
systems. Not because it has fixed fonts. (I don't use it.)
I notice you tactfully ignored my last point about significantly more
business.. <g>
One last point before I let you have your final word: I have looked
over the shoulder of many web users, and heard them say -
User: "Why are the letters so small?"
Me: "Why don't you make them bigger?"
User: "Can I do that?"
Me: "Not with this browser ..." <g>
--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@ex ample.invalid> wrote in message
news:3a******** *****@individua l.net... me wrote: "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@ex ample.invalid> wrote in
message news:3a******** *****@individua l.net...
me wrote:
I infer from your comment that you disagree but you didn't
specify exactly how. IMO if those designers are wrong then
their sites should be shunned but since that's clearly not the
case we must assume their visitors like their sites and hence
don't mind fixed fonts sizes and non-fluid layouts.
No, we can't assume that they don't mind it or like it.
Then you refuse to belive that many of the most popular sites use
fixed font sizes and non-fluid layouts, in that case we must agree
to disagree.
Please point to where I said that popular sites don't use fixed font
(and fluid layouts). That would be a dumb thing for me to try to
claim, because millions of them do.
Thank you. We are in agreement that millions of successful sites that enjoy
great popularity use fixed font sizes and non-fluid layouts.
Signed,
me
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:37:15 -0600, "me" <anonymous@_.co m> wrote: "Steve Pugh" <st***@pugh.net > wrote in message
news:nh******* *************** **********@4ax. com... C A Upsdell <""cupsdellXXX\ "@-@-@XXXupsdell.com "> wrote:
>me wrote:
>> Still a few people using IE???
>> According to the w3c 68% of their visitors use IE:
>> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
>> IMO IE users are probally the least likely to visit
>> the w3c site (I hardly ever go there)
So we have noticed...
Along with the ability to tell one site from another...
The URL given is for the w3schools site which has nothing
at all to do with the W3C.
Fair enough ... So do you think their stats are wrong?
Probaly not since the w3schools site is IE centric in the first place
and has always been like that since its first day of appearance on the
www. Bad seeks bad usually.
_Real_ stats differs of course.
--
Rex
me wrote:
I'm not copying anyone, but if fixed font sizes and non-fluid layouts are so
wrong then those sites wouldn't be popular.
Your logic is wrong. The sites are popular *in spite of* fixed font
sizes and non-fluid layouts, not because of them. They apparently have
content that's worth the struggle to view.
weather.com falls into that group, methinks. But since their latest bit
of redesign, I'm actively looking for another weather source.
--
Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
in comp.infosystem s. www.authoring.stylesheets, John C. Ring, Jr. wrote: <sacrasm>
Oh right, <h1> through <h6> doesn't allow me to adjust font and font
size, how ignorant of me.
</sarcasm>
Of course they do. When you are user using website. When you are author,
they don't.
First of all this was my sarcastic answer so I don't really want to
defend it, but where this discussion had started was when I listed my
***PRINTER** * stylesheet CSS for h1 through h6 and Lauri didn't like
that h6 was smaller font size selection than body text.
No, I did not say anything about that, it was someone else. I commented
your reply:
| Having the headings h5 and h6 (and sometimes h4) smaller than the body
| text has been the norm since long before you ever coded any HTML.
Where you tried to not use context of your print style, and thus didn't
need answer the orginal question, which was if you had ever seen headings
with smaller print in professional print jobs.
I didn't realizethere were people here who would miquote my text to enable them to make
some obscure tangential point which is to make it appear that what I
said was in some way wrong.
It makes no difference, weather it was print stylesheet or not. It
doesn't make difference if it was your use print stylesheet or not.
I DIDN'T!!! What are you getting on my case for?
Respectfully, I am not getting on your case. I am pointing out my opinion
that the Hx elements should not be viewed mainly as a method to change the
He is trolling, or perhaps just takes everything personally, and can't be
wrong.
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Utrecht, NL.
> John C. Ring, Jr. wrote: Respectfull y, I am not getting on your case. I am pointing out my opinion
that the Hx elements should not be viewed mainly as a method to change the
Point taken, thanks...
Lauri Raittila wrote:
He is trolling, or perhaps just takes everything personally, and can't be
wrong.
No, Lauri, I'm not trolling... I'm in all honesty having trouble with
your condescending manner. But, maybe it's just me... I don't know.
Been a real waste of time on this...
Thank you...
Rich
"kchayka" <us****@c-net.us> wrote in message
news:3a******** *****@individua l.net... me wrote:
I'm not copying anyone, but if fixed font sizes and non-fluid layouts
are so wrong then those sites wouldn't be popular.
Your logic is wrong. The sites are popular *in spite of* fixed font
sizes and non-fluid layouts, not because of them. They apparently have
content that's worth the struggle to view.
I'll turn it around then: If fluid design and proportional fonts were
superior then that's what we would see at most popular sites. Apparently
designers of those sites don't think it is superior.
Signed,
me
"Jan Roland Eriksson" <jr****@newsguy .com> wrote in message
news:l0******** *************** *********@4ax.c om... On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:37:15 -0600, "me" <anonymous@_.co m> wrote:
"Steve Pugh" <st***@pugh.net > wrote in message
news:nh******* *************** **********@4ax. com... C A Upsdell <""cupsdellXXX\ "@-@-@XXXupsdell.com "> wrote:me wrote:> Still a few people using IE???> According to the w3c 68% of their visitors use IE:
>> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp> IMO IE users are probally the least likely to visit
>> the w3c site (I hardly ever go there)
So we have noticed...
Along with the ability to tell one site from another...
The URL given is for the w3schools site which has nothing
at all to do with the W3C. Fair enough ... So do you think their stats are wrong?
Probaly not since the w3schools site is IE centric in the first place
and has always been like that since its first day of appearance on the
www.
Cite proof please.
Bad seeks bad usually.
_Real_ stats differs of course.
Cite proof please.
Signed,
me This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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