Frames - still a swearword?

[Michael]

I'm new to ASP.Net but been a programmer for decades.

I'm doing a new App and am intending to use an Item Listing Frame alongside
a Data Input Frame (I hate in-Grid editing). I figure when I hit Save on the
Input Frame the List will update (and who cares how long it takes) while the
Entry Frame presents you with a blank form ready to go almost immediately.

I've looked around for information/tutorials on Frames in .Net and it's
pretty scarce. I remember a few years ago everyone hated Frames due to some
browsers not supporting them.

Is this still the case? Or is it just an old prejudice?

Regards

[Steve C. Orr [MVP, MCSD]]

Frames can be a real pain in ASP.NET.
I'd suggest staying away from them when possible.
Usually its better to segment logical, reusable sections of a page into user
controls and/or custom controls.
Here's more info:
http://steveorr.net/faq/usercustom.aspx

--
I hope this helps,
Steve C. Orr, MCSD, MVP
http://SteveOrr.net

"Michael" <st******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

I'm new to ASP.Net but been a programmer for decades.

I'm doing a new App and am intending to use an Item Listing Frame
alongside
a Data Input Frame (I hate in-Grid editing). I figure when I hit Save on
the
Input Frame the List will update (and who cares how long it takes) while
the
Entry Frame presents you with a blank form ready to go almost immediately.

I've looked around for information/tutorials on Frames in .Net and it's
pretty scarce. I remember a few years ago everyone hated Frames due to
some
browsers not supporting them.

Is this still the case? Or is it just an old prejudice?

Regards

[darrel]

> I've looked around for information/tutorials on Frames in .Net and it's

pretty scarce. I remember a few years ago everyone hated Frames due to some browsers not supporting them.

Frames still suck when it comes to interfaces for public-facing web sites.
There are just a lot of issues that can make them confusing...google,
bookmarking, linking, printing, accessibility, etc.

Where frames can still be useful is when developing web application
interfaces. But, like Steve said, you have the power of ASP.net to 'divy' up
your interface and not need to rely on frames.

Unless this is some gigantic list, I can't see how updating it would really
be a noticable amount of time for the end-user, anyways.

-Darrel

[jasonkester]

darrel wrote:

There are just a lot of issues that can make them confusing...
Just because something is hard to do right does not mean it's not worth
doing. Frames have their uses, and it sounds like the original poster
understands what those uses are.

As others have said, tread carefully. Poorly implemented frames are a
great way to drive traffic away from your site.

Unless this is some gigantic list, I can't see how updating it would really be a noticable amount of time for the end-user, anyways.

Even today, fast page loads are still a desirable thing. The previous
incarnation of Google Groups is a good example of a non-intrusive use
of frames.

Good luck!

Jason Kester
Expat Software Consulting Services
http://www.expatsoftware.com/

[Kevin Spencer]

Well, as Jimi Hendrix once said "You can't believe everything you see and
hear, can you?"

FrameSets are problematic. Of course, everything is problematic to a degree.
FrameSets with ASP or ASP.Net can be a bit more problematic, mostly for 2
reasons:

1. Search Engine behavior - Search Engines have a hard time with FrameSets.
2. Frame coordination - As each frame is a separate browser instance,
Session is unreliable in the context of FrameSets, and communication between
frames has to occur on the client.

That said, FrameSets are a tool. Anything else you have heard is
characterization, not fact. The fact is, FrameSets are a tool that can be
useful under the right circumstances. For less-experienced developers, I
would have to agree with Steve to steer clear of them.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.

"Michael" <st******@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%2****************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...

I'm new to ASP.Net but been a programmer for decades.

I'm doing a new App and am intending to use an Item Listing Frame
alongside
a Data Input Frame (I hate in-Grid editing). I figure when I hit Save on
the
Input Frame the List will update (and who cares how long it takes) while
the
Entry Frame presents you with a blank form ready to go almost immediately.

I've looked around for information/tutorials on Frames in .Net and it's
pretty scarce. I remember a few years ago everyone hated Frames due to
some
browsers not supporting them.

Is this still the case? Or is it just an old prejudice?

Regards

[Michael]

Thanks for the feedback so far. It's more encouraging than I expected ;)

For reference; this site is a business app so in-the-field employees will be
the only users. Therefore, browser choice and client setup can be somewhat
relied upon.

I picture the MSDN site with a list of manufactured items on the left side
(tree style). When a leaf is clicked, the edit frame appears in the right
frame. The list will be large.

An example of why I prefer the frame route is that editing and saving an
item without changing description won't even require a list refresh. Speed
of input and reviewing is the important thing here.

Regards

Michael