Looking for some Programmers

[Kevin]

Hey guys. I'm looking to get together some VB programmers on Yahoo
messenger. I sit at a computer and program all day.

I have about 3 or 4 people already, but it would be really cool to
have a much larger list of people (for all of us to benefit). I have
found it to be an invaluable resource to answer those hard or weird
programming questions that come up.

If you are interested, please reply, or send me an email at
im*****@gmail.c om

-Kevin

[Kevin Gabbert]

Good point.
Pacific Time. I live in Oregon. I dont really think of it as a forum,
howeverI think the success of such a forum could better be addressed by
IM Providers :D

I think Instant Messenging is really underutilized. somebody has yet to
organize the cacophony that is Instant messaging and Text messaging. It
might just be addressed with the publication of a 'phone book'
Peer-to-peer Networks have some practical coordination advantages -
ironically, as terrorist groups in foreign countries are starting to
exploit.

Its possible that this idea may just be a little bit before it's time.

Windows messenger (and yahoo) has a pretty cool feature - a drawing
board. This helps out quite a bit when I have to work from home and
need to communicate in different ways with other programmers that I need
to direct at work. Didn't George Lucas make his latest 2 Star Wars
movies using this method?

. I saw somebody a few replies back say that he utilizes everything in
his power to find solutions. I feel the same way. One of my friends is
a Unix/C programmer, which winds up giving me a different perspective on
many of the things I do in VB.

-Kevin

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[Kevin Gabbert]

whaddya talking about! heck. our junior programmer comes up with the
coolest ideas! He doesn't know he can't do things so I just tell him to
do it. and he is really good at making utilities for us to use.

-K

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[Larry Serflaten]

"Terry Olsen" <to******@hotma il.com> wrote

I suppose that I am one of those "least skilled" people. <...> I have had no "formal" training, as I had already been educated as an
electronics technician. I was a hobbiest programmer on the Apple IIgs
(Pascal & Assembly). Got quite good at it and several of my programs
are still circulating. Since moving to a Windows box in 1996, I have
been re-learning how to program.
That's interesting to me, because that is exactly the path I took, except
my furst comupter purchase was an Atari 800....
I'm trying to convince my company to transfer me to the Software
Engineering department as an apprentice or something entry level.
Good luck! I have yet to find a position that will pay me to write software,
and have been looking (on and off) since about 1996.

"What happened to OJT?" From 1996....
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...usinternet.com

I went so far as to contact my state's Department of Labor asking why there
isn't a state sponsored apprentice program for computer programming (like
there are for other skilled trades). The reply was that for there to be a program,
the businesses have to request it, and they just don't get a call for that. Oh well!
The premise of "equalizing skillsets" defeats the whole
purpose. I like the usenet groups in that a diverse crowd lives here.
There will always be someone who knows more than you that can help you
out, and someone who knows less than you that you can help out. I don't
think it is an "absurd waste of human capital" to answer a basic
question.
In my early use of the newsgroups, I wondered if it really would be in my own
best interest to share my knowlege with others less skilled. I wasn't necessarily
looking from my personal position, but what the end result would be if highly
skilled people (getting the big bucks) constanly help out the lower skilled people.
I thought there very well may be an equallizing of skillsets such that there would be
an 'apparent' increase of skilled programmers (if they can do the same task, one
by experience and another by researching the newsgroups, then they appear to
be equally skilled) which would decrease the demand for 'skilled' programmers and
decrease their wage accordingly. Needless to say it didn't pan out like that. What
I did find discouraging was to be actively seeking work (at that time) and see
someone with MCSD or other credentials after their name come in and ask how
to find the length of text in a textbox, or post some long drawn out procedure
to a question, when there was a much simpler answer. It was sort of a sour grapes
sort of thing, or envy if you will, at them being able to pass the muster during the
hiring process, even when their skill level was severly lacking in this one
particular area.
If you have the knowledge and the time to reply, great. If
not, no problem.
I still refer people to links from Google when I can easily find the answer there.
One reason is that it answers their question and another reason is that they may
learn to search the archive first, before asking one of the most frequently asked
questions of all time. Of course it helps to have a clue about the proper words
to search for, which is why I don't mind doing the search in the first place.

I'd just hate to be snubbed because I don't have an [MVP] after my name.

How do you think a lot of MVP's got their award? One method is to stay
active in the newsgroups helping the community learn and use one or more
of the technologies from MSFT. As you pointed out, there is a bit of
satisfaction in designing and developing a useful application. There is also
a bit of satisfaction to be found just by helping others resolve their problem
(something a repair technician is obviously familiar with). Personally, I like
the challenge of seeing how things work, where I might take a peek at the
MSIL generated from some algorithm to see if there might be some extra
fluff that could be eliminated by changing the source in some small way....

What it boils down to is, if it wasn't fun for me to participate in the newsgroups,
I wouldn't be doing it. Which is why I occasionally add the salutation:

Have fun!
LFS (VB MVP ;-)

[Lucas Tam]

"Larry Serflaten" <se*******@usin ternet.com> wrote in
news:#m******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP12.phx.gbl:

I went so far as to contact my state's Department of Labor asking why
there isn't a state sponsored apprentice program for computer
programming (like there are for other skilled trades). The reply was
that for there to be a program, the businesses have to request it, and
they just don't get a call for that. Oh well!

If you pick up a couple of good computer science text books on algorithms,
software engineering, object oriented programming... you can more or less
master ANY computer language.

That is probably why there are no apprenticeships - you can self learn most
of the stuff. Also, programming is more than just writing code... as you
noticed, the topics I suggested are theoretical and not practical like
"VB.NET in 10 days".

--
Lucas Tam (RE********@rog ers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

[Cor Ligthert]

Have fun!
LFS (VB MVP ;-)

With not those horrible manners from 'some' MVP's who luckily seldom visit
the this newsgroup and which give the idea that they only have there 'MVP'
status to lean on, but show to know nothing. There only contribution seems
to be snubbing people.

Luckily as well is that they are often very short in this newsgroup, while I
have seen others which changed there behaviour to the standards as all
regulars in this newsgroup at least try to have.

:-)

Cor