Why so many frameworks?

[Coder Droid]

Some years ago, when I put together my first PHP-based web site, I tried
to make it as modular and reusable as possible. (I suppose if I'd been
thinking, I would have looked for an existing framework, and built off
that, right from the beginning.) Since then, I've continually worked on
it, enhanced it, and over the last year in particular, it's become
almost a full-fledged framework. At this rate, I'll probably release it
to the public early next year for others to use.

Which then made me think: like who!?

I started building my framework in a bubble: not really looking or
caring if anything else was out there. (And building it just for the
sake of building it: much in the same way someone else might play golf
or build birdhouses.) But now that I've opened my eyes, I've found at
least one framework for every two PHP developers! Is that just the way
we are? Why so many frameworks?

Are most of these authors like me? Doing it just to do it, then
uploading it as an afterthought? Are there those that set out to make a
commercial product? Are people just more inclined to build vs. buy? Is
it that you get exactly what you want if you build your own? Because now
that I've looked at others, mine's definitely the best. ;) But only
because it was designed to meet my own exact needs. It could be complete
trash to the next person.

So does anyone here actually use someone else's framework, and if so,
which one?

--cd

[Michael Fesser]

.oO(Coder Droid)

I started building my framework in a bubble: not really looking or
caring if anything else was out there. (And building it just for the
sake of building it: much in the same way someone else might play golf
or build birdhouses.)
Currently I'm building a ... uhm ... framework. ;)
But now that I've opened my eyes, I've found at
least one framework for every two PHP developers! Is that just the way
we are? Why so many frameworks?

Are most of these authors like me?
At least me.
Doing it just to do it, then
uploading it as an afterthought?
Doing it - yes, uploading - maybe.
Are there those that set out to make a
commercial product? Are people just more inclined to build vs. buy? Is
it that you get exactly what you want if you build your own? Because now
that I've looked at others, mine's definitely the best. ;) But only
because it was designed to meet my own exact needs.

That's exactly the point, at least for me. I prefer writing my own code
so it exactly fits my needs. I like it small and simple, a set of small
but specific classes rather than a full-blown class monster, which may
be flexible, but slow and hard to maintain.

Micha

[Tony Marston]

I've written my own frameworks in 3 different languages. Why? Because I've
seen what other people have written and I always reckon that I can do
better. It does what I want the way I want it, and without as many bugs.

--
Tony Marston

http://www.tonymarston.net

"Michael Fesser" <ne*****@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:53********************************@4ax.com...

.oO(Coder Droid)

I started building my framework in a bubble: not really looking or
caring if anything else was out there. (And building it just for the
sake of building it: much in the same way someone else might play golf
or build birdhouses.)

Currently I'm building a ... uhm ... framework. ;)

But now that I've opened my eyes, I've found at
least one framework for every two PHP developers! Is that just the way
we are? Why so many frameworks?

Are most of these authors like me?

At least me.

Doing it just to do it, then
uploading it as an afterthought?

Doing it - yes, uploading - maybe.

Are there those that set out to make a
commercial product? Are people just more inclined to build vs. buy? Is
it that you get exactly what you want if you build your own? Because now
that I've looked at others, mine's definitely the best. ;) But only
because it was designed to meet my own exact needs.

That's exactly the point, at least for me. I prefer writing my own code
so it exactly fits my needs. I like it small and simple, a set of small
but specific classes rather than a full-blown class monster, which may
be flexible, but slow and hard to maintain.

Micha

[Henk Verhoeven]

Hi Coder,

When i started building my first framework back in 1992 there where none
around. At least not afforable and in the Smalltalk dialect i used. Ever
since it just seemed too boring to do development without building a
framework as well. And a happen to have the knowledge of how to do it
anyhow, so it seemed not too much work, and refactoring will eventually
lead so pieces of framework anyway.

What so far has been a lot less rewarding was documenting it. But now
most of that is done, it seems a waste not to maintain it, especially
because the site keeps getting about ten visitors a day.

However, on hindsight the investment seems kind of irrational too. But
so did the one at the start of the internet hype. That one has payed
off, commercially. If i would just not have spent it all on more
framework code... Clearly i should next time try some other persons
framework, i guess. But last time the EJB mess i came across just scared
me out of the most widely 'accepted' framework. Out of Java too,
actually. Or is all this rationalization, maybe am i addicted to
building frameworks and php4 was just the kind of empty grounds i like
to grow them on?

Greetings,

Henk Verhoeven,
www.phpPeanuts.org.
Coder Droid wrote:

Some years ago, when I put together my first PHP-based web site, I tried
to make it as modular and reusable as possible. (I suppose if I'd been
thinking, I would have looked for an existing framework, and built off
that, right from the beginning.) Since then, I've continually worked on
it, enhanced it, and over the last year in particular, it's become
almost a full-fledged framework. At this rate, I'll probably release it
to the public early next year for others to use.

Which then made me think: like who!?

I started building my framework in a bubble: not really looking or
caring if anything else was out there. (And building it just for the
sake of building it: much in the same way someone else might play golf
or build birdhouses.) But now that I've opened my eyes, I've found at
least one framework for every two PHP developers! Is that just the way
we are? Why so many frameworks?

Are most of these authors like me? Doing it just to do it, then
uploading it as an afterthought? Are there those that set out to make a
commercial product? Are people just more inclined to build vs. buy? Is
it that you get exactly what you want if you build your own? Because now
that I've looked at others, mine's definitely the best. ;) But only
because it was designed to meet my own exact needs. It could be complete
trash to the next person.

So does anyone here actually use someone else's framework, and if so,
which one?

--cd

[Coder Droid]

> However, on hindsight the investment seems kind of irrational too.

That's a great statement, because I keep having these same thoughts. On
the one hand, I'm like, "This is really cool!" But then I'll also think,
"Is this just a gigantic waste of time?" Part of me rationalizes it, if
I can someday share it (or sell it?) to others. But then it's like, "who
am I kidding." It's a real love/hate thing.

I've already put hundreds and hundreds of hours into this. And I, too,
began working on frameworks in the early 90s. So I guess this is just
something that's in me: and I'll probably be doing it ten years from now
as I was ten years ago.

--cd

[Chung Leong]

"Coder Droid" <co********@likethiswouldstopspam.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:4H*******************@fe1.texas.rr.com...

I started building my framework in a bubble: not really looking or
caring if anything else was out there. (And building it just for the
sake of building it: much in the same way someone else might play golf
or build birdhouses.) But now that I've opened my eyes, I've found at
least one framework for every two PHP developers! Is that just the way
we are? Why so many frameworks?

Application frameworks are like government: they provide crummy services
while imposing all sorts of restrictions.

[Tim Tyler]

Chung Leong <ch***********@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:

Application frameworks are like government: they provide crummy services
while imposing all sorts of restrictions.

There are also lots of them - and they rarely like each other ;-)
--
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[Tim Tyler]

Coder Droid <co********@likethiswouldstopspam.hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:

But now that I've opened my eyes, I've found at least one framework for
every two PHP developers! Is that just the way we are? Why so many
frameworks?

I doubt I'm typical - but I embarked on mine primarily because the license
conditions of most of the existing frameworks were too restrictive - and
not enough rights were given to users.

I found only one PHP CMS which claimed to have an unrestricted license.
It was: http://sourceforge.net/projects/promanager/

When I scanned through the source code, I found multiple sections of
code containing copyright statements with unspecified license conditions
(i.e. no redistribution rights). The code was next-to useless to me.
--
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