text-align in ul

[A.Translator]

I am still struggling with an unordered list
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~hogen/TaalVlinder/).

The top navbar contains 4 divs with each an ul,
and no padding or margins.

But I get far too much white to the left and right of the lists, especially
noticeble in the two right hand menu's 'flora & fauna' and afkortingen
etc.'

I tried to solve the problem by setting text-align:left on the list, but
that does not seem to have any effect, not when set on the li, nor when
applied to the ul as a whole, nor to both.

Any idea where I go wrong?
Could it have to do with the width of the divs containing the menu's being
set in html rather than with css? I have tried fiddling with that, but got
nowhere.

Your help will be most welcome.

--
Groet, Adriana.
[throw rubbish out if you want to reach me by e-mail]

[Matt]

A.Translator wrote:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:49:42 GMT, Brian wrote:

I am using tables
for other pages, though, where I have lists of words (columns with English
on the left and their translation on the right hand site). That is proper
usage, is it not?
Yes, it would be counter-productive to mark up the data in another way.
(thanks for the explanation of 'cakewalk' - as a translator I am very
interested in language).

I'm from the UK, and I've never heard of 'cakewalk', though we might say
something is 'a piece of cake' if it's very easy.

--
Matt

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[Eric B. Bednarz]

"A.Translat or" <ad************ ******@yaBISHho o.com> writes:

Presentation is something that HTML does not do well, and no surprise,
since it was not designed as a desktop publishing language.
Point taken.

To me it actually comes as a surprise to learn that HTML was *designed*
at all. There's a memorable quote from 1995 by Joe English that hits
the nail rather discouragingly on its head:

| Defining the tags first and then trying to reverse-engineer a DTD is
| working against SGML.
<http://listserv.heanet .ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9508&L =html-wg&P=R14154>
[associative backreferenced by way of]
<http://groups.google.c om/groups?q=arjun+ english+sgml+re verse+engineer>
[now, if my mother and Arjun were married everything would be back in
perspective root-(element-)wise :-)]

[1]Your sig makes me think you are German?

I am Dutch. We are friends now but until very recently

That was before tea time I suppose? Admittedly I haven't been outdoors
since then. :->
Dutch people would
get very upset about being mistaken for Germans...

--
| ) 111010111011 | http://bednarz.nl/
-(
| ) Distribute me: http://binaries.bednarz.nl/mp3/aisha

[Brian]

A.Translator wrote:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:49:42 GMT, Brian wrote:

I am going to have another go at changing the lay out and get rid
of the table-structure.
Start with a really simple change of the layout from the browser
default, and get more complicated as you get more skilled.
I am using tables for other pages, though, where I have lists of
words (columns with English on the left and their translation on
the right hand site). That is proper usage, is it not?
It sounds like it's ok, but I'd have to see it to be more definitive.

Your sig makes me think you are German?

I am Dutch.

(grimacing) Oooh, sorry. I saw the "Groet," and for some reason
thought German. Come to think of it, the German word for greetings
ends with "sse," I think. Sort of like the difference between Strasse
and Straat.

Had I seen a few more words, I might have figured it out. But I've
only studied German for 1 year, and never studied Dutch, so one word
is not quite enough. I sort of like reading Dutch words. Not that I
understand it, but it's fun finding English cognates that are so close
in spelling: street, straat; cow, koe; bake, bak; etc. I smiled often
when I travelled in Belgium. (Flemish, if I understand correctly, is a
dialect of Dutch. Cripes, I hope I didn't get this wrong, too!)
We are friends now but until very recently Dutch people would get
very upset about being mistaken for Germans...

Well, I can't really blame them for getting upset. Dutch is not
German. I have a friend who nearly blew his top when a local
newscaster said "Guten tag from Holland." :-D The local newscasters
in the U.S. are not always very bright.

Glad to hear that you're friends in any case. No use fighting with the
neighbors. :-)

--
Brian (follow directions in my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Brian]

Matt wrote:

I'm from the UK, and I've never heard of 'cakewalk', though we
might say something is 'a piece of cake' if it's very easy.

We Americans say that, too. Or "easy as pie." All 3 meaning easy, all
3 using a sweet in the metaphor. As I said, we seem to like dessert
metaphors.

--
Brian (follow directions in my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[oOze]

Brian <us*****@juliet remblay.com.inv alid-remove-this-part> wrote in message news:<8yWTb.210 447$I06.2332967 @attbi_s01>...

A.Translator wrote:

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 03:49:42 GMT, Brian wrote:

I am going to have another go at changing the lay out and get rid
of the table-structure.
Start with a really simple change of the layout from the browser
default, and get more complicated as you get more skilled.

I am using tables for other pages, though, where I have lists of
words (columns with English on the left and their translation on
the right hand site). That is proper usage, is it not?

It sounds like it's ok, but I'd have to see it to be more definitive.

Your sig makes me think you are German?

I am Dutch.

(grimacing) Oooh, sorry. I saw the "Groet," and for some reason
thought German. Come to think of it, the German word for greetings
ends with "sse," I think. Sort of like the difference between Strasse
and Straat.

Had I seen a few more words, I might have figured it out. But I've
only studied German for 1 year, and never studied Dutch, so one word
is not quite enough. I sort of like reading Dutch words. Not that I
understand it, but it's fun finding English cognates that are so close
in spelling: street, straat; cow, koe; bake, bak; etc. I smiled often
when I travelled in Belgium. (Flemish, if I understand correctly, is a
dialect of Dutch. Cripes, I hope I didn't get this wrong, too!)

Not exactly. Flemish (Vlaams) and Nederlandic (Nederlands - what you
call Dutch)
both started out as a *collection* of Low-German dialects, also named
Diets dialects. Both the Flemings and the Netherlanders are of Dietse
blood (the Dutch national anthem was written by a Fleming). Now, the
English Dutch comes from the old Diets, but Dutch does not have the
same meaning as the old Diets, so saying that Flemish is a dialect of
(modern) Dutch is incorrect.

*Both* were Diets (--Low-German, Neder-Duits, Diets (not Deutsch!)--)
dialects! The Flemish dialects (--through Flanders and Brabant, the
dominant areas of those (pre-1500) days--) were for a long time
dominant, until after the many invasions of the southern (--nowadays
Flanders--) provinces due to which the Netherlandic province of
Holland became dominant. Around this time, due to religious unrest and
wars many influential Flemings and Brabanters fled to the north
(--nowadays the Netherlands--), taking their language, trade and
influence with them. It seems that most of the Dutch their history
starts where their Holland becomes dominant, and forget whatever
happened before it :)

Complicated.. I know...

Also, some Scottish dialects have a lot in common with several western
Flemish dialects, remnants of the ancient Flemish/British Isles
wooltrade. Same for Wales, some places and names in Wales and Scotland
are of obvious Flemish descent. Olde English (--before the French
invasion of your language--) borrows a lot particularly from Olde
Flemish (--the variant nowadays only spoken in n. France around Lille
& Dunkirk (Flemish territory in the old days)--).

Just thought I should mention this :)

We are friends now but until very recently Dutch people would get
very upset about being mistaken for Germans...
Well, I can't really blame them for getting upset. Dutch is not
German. I have a friend who nearly blew his top when a local
newscaster said "Guten tag from Holland." :-D The local newscasters
in the U.S. are not always very bright.

Who'd have thought :)

Glad to hear that you're friends in any case. No use fighting with the
neighbors. :-)

Not even if they're French ;) (Or American for that matter.. I'm a
neutral, I should be rude to both parties..)

[Christoph Paeper]

*Brian*:

A.Translator wrote:

Your sig makes me think you are German?
I am Dutch.

(grimacing) Oooh, sorry. I saw the "Groet," and for some reason
thought German. Come to think of it, the German word for greetings
ends with "sse," I think.

'Gruß' or pl. 'Grüße', yes, all related.
Sort of like the difference between Strasse and Straat.
And 'street', yes.
I sort of like reading Dutch words. Not that I understand it,
When your grand-father spoke Low Saxon to you, it's almost understandable.
Or with some beer. For someone with such a northern German background Dutch
is about as difficult to understanding as Swiss German or Yiddish, although
it's not as closely related.
it's fun finding English cognates that are so close in spelling:
If history went a little different, we would have a common (West) Germanic
language, which would probably be more similar to Dutch and Low Saxon than
to English or German.
If it went even a little more different, that would include Romance ones.
(Flemish, if I understand correctly, is a dialect of Dutch.
At least more than Dutch is a dialect of German.

We are friends now but until very recently Dutch people would get
very upset about being mistaken for Germans...

First rule for a German to make a well first impression on a trip to Holland
(or the Netherlands if you want), greet everyone with: »Na, auch aus
Deutschland?«
I have a friend who nearly blew his top when a local
newscaster said "Guten tag from Holland." :-D The local newscasters
in the U.S. are not always very bright.
Want to borrow some leather trousers to wear with your wooden shoes?
Glad to hear that you're friends in any case.
If you call the relationship of Canada and the USA a friendship, then the
Netherlands an Germany (or Germany and Austria) are friends, too.
No use fighting with the neighbors.

Well, /they/ have never invaded /us/.

--
"A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends."
Baltasar Gracian

[Brian]

oOze wrote:

Also, some Scottish dialects have a lot in common with several
western Flemish dialects, remnants of the ancient Flemish/British
Isles wooltrade.
That's surprising, given that Gaelic is a Celtic language.
Olde English (--before the French invasion of your language--)
borrows a lot particularly from Olde Flemish

Well, to be precise, Old English, aka Anglo-Saxon, is a low Germanic
language.

--
Brian (follow directions in my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Matt]

Christoph Paeper wrote:

*Brian*:

(grimacing) Oooh, sorry. I saw the "Groet," and for some reason
thought German. Come to think of it, the German word for greetings
ends with "sse," I think.

'Gruß' or pl. 'Grüße', yes, all related.

My German teacher said (about 5 years ago) that there were plans to
replace ß with ss in German for the millenium because of the problems it
caused with computers, keyboards, non-germans trying to write it, etc. I
know very little about the language, why did the change not happen? I
realise Unicode probably helps, but there are still (seemingly reasonable
to someone who did german for 1 year aged 14 at school) reasons for a
change.

--
Matt

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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Brian]

Christoph Paeper wrote:

*Brian*:

I saw the "Groet," and for some reason thought German. Come to
think of it, the German word for greetings ends with "sse," I
think.
'Gruß' or pl. 'Grüße', yes, all related.

That's what I was thinking. But I don't have that letter on my querty
keyboard, you see. And I don't know how to spell that letter, if you
get my drift. I know how to say it, but that doesn't help me in
writing. So I had to settle for "ss" in place of it.
If history went a little different, we would have a common (West)
Germanic language, which would probably be more similar to Dutch
and Low Saxon than to English or German.
You've lost me, I'm afraid. You mean there would be a West Germanic
language instead of Dutch/Flemish/English/German?
If it went even a little more different, that would include Romance
ones.

Damn Normans! ;-)

(Flemish, if I understand correctly, is a dialect of Dutch.

At least more than Dutch is a dialect of German.

In that, it isn't! I did know that much, at least.

--
Brian (follow directions in my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Brian]

Matt wrote:

My German teacher said (about 5 years ago) that there were plans to
replace ß with ss in German for the millenium because of the
problems it caused with computers, keyboards, non-germans trying to
write it, etc. I know very little about the language, why did the
change not happen?
AFAIK, it did.
there are still (seemingly reasonable to someone who did german for
1 year aged 14 at school) reasons for a change.

I happen to be shocked when I heard that they replaced ß with ss. If I
were German, I'm sure I'd have been rather pissed off with that
decision. But I'm not, so it really isn't my fight.

--
Brian (follow directions in my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/