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Access 2007 Rich Text Deficiencies?

I posted a few days ago that it seems to me that the Access 2007 rich text
feature does not support: a) full text justification; b) programmatic
manipulation.

I was hoping that someone might know one way or the other whether that was
true or not, or could point me to an article or help text that would. What I
have seen so far online and in Access 2007 help seems to confirm the above.
But that (or at least (b)) seems incredible that it would be so.

I need to make a decision regarding implementing rich text features, and I
need to decide whether to go with Access 2007 or use a third-party control.
The answer to the above will determine my decision.

Thus, if anyone has any information re. the above, or could point me to an
article that does, it would be greatly appreciated. So far, I have not been
able to find anything.

Thank you!

Neil
Jun 16 '07 #1
16 11124
Neil wrote:
I posted a few days ago that it seems to me that the Access 2007 rich text
feature does not support: a) full text justification; b) programmatic
manipulation.

I was hoping that someone might know one way or the other whether that was
true or not, or could point me to an article or help text that would. What I
have seen so far online and in Access 2007 help seems to confirm the above.
But that (or at least (b)) seems incredible that it would be so.

I need to make a decision regarding implementing rich text features, and I
need to decide whether to go with Access 2007 or use a third-party control.
The answer to the above will determine my decision.
I saw this nice compilation of issues with A2007 from Allen Browne:

http://allenbrowne.com/Access2007.html

--
'--------------------------
' John Mishefske
' UtterAccess Editor
' 2007 Microsoft Access MVP
'--------------------------
Jun 16 '07 #2
Thanks, John. Yes, I checked Allen's list. It's a great resource. I actually
sent him a note about these two deficiencies, to see if he wanted to add
them to his list, but I haven't seen anything there or heard back from him.

Neil

"John Mishefske" <jm**********@S PAMyahoo.comwro te in message
news:46******** *************** @roadrunner.com ...
Neil wrote:
>I posted a few days ago that it seems to me that the Access 2007 rich
text feature does not support: a) full text justification; b)
programmatic manipulation.

I was hoping that someone might know one way or the other whether that
was true or not, or could point me to an article or help text that would.
What I have seen so far online and in Access 2007 help seems to confirm
the above. But that (or at least (b)) seems incredible that it would be
so.

I need to make a decision regarding implementing rich text features, and
I need to decide whether to go with Access 2007 or use a third-party
control. The answer to the above will determine my decision.

I saw this nice compilation of issues with A2007 from Allen Browne:

http://allenbrowne.com/Access2007.html

--
'--------------------------
' John Mishefske
' UtterAccess Editor
' 2007 Microsoft Access MVP
'--------------------------

Jun 16 '07 #3
Neil, I don't understand your comment about not being able to assign values
programmaticall y.

Presumably you have a text box bound to a Memo field where the Rich Text is
set, or an unbound text box or text box bound to an expression, and the Rich
Text property is set. If that's the case, you should be able to set the
Control Source to something like:
="This has a <b>bold</dword."

Likewise, you can paste in text containing bulleted lists etc.

In HTML, you can justify a paragraph of text like this:
<p align="justify" >
I guess you are saying that the A2007 rich text box does not render that
correctly.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam. netwrote in message
news:GF******** ***********@new ssvr23.news.pro digy.net...
Thanks, John. Yes, I checked Allen's list. It's a great resource. I
actually sent him a note about these two deficiencies, to see if he wanted
to add them to his list, but I haven't seen anything there or heard back
from him.

Neil

"John Mishefske" <jm**********@S PAMyahoo.comwro te in message
news:46******** *************** @roadrunner.com ...
>Neil wrote:
>>I posted a few days ago that it seems to me that the Access 2007 rich
text feature does not support: a) full text justification; b)
programmati c manipulation.

I was hoping that someone might know one way or the other whether that
was true or not, or could point me to an article or help text that
would. What I have seen so far online and in Access 2007 help seems to
confirm the above. But that (or at least (b)) seems incredible that it
would be so.

I need to make a decision regarding implementing rich text features, and
I need to decide whether to go with Access 2007 or use a third-party
control. The answer to the above will determine my decision.

I saw this nice compilation of issues with A2007 from Allen Browne:

http://allenbrowne.com/Access2007.html

--
'--------------------------
' John Mishefske
' UtterAccess Editor
' 2007 Microsoft Access MVP
'--------------------------
Jun 16 '07 #4
Yes, I suppose one can add the HTML codes manually, which works fine for
simple things like bolding, but would get a little dicier with complex
formatting.

But what I meant was that in RTF controls (such as the Microsoft Rich
Textbox control, or third-party controls, such as FMS's), you can change the
format of the text programmaticall y using methods built into the control.
For example, to set the below bold text, one would use the SelBold method in
conjuction with SelStart and SelLength. Again, with simple examples it
shouldn't matter; but with complex formatting it makes a big difference to
let the control set the RTF or HTML code for you.

So, it's those methods that appear to be missing from controls designated as
"rich text" in Access 2007. Having to set the HTML manually would be huge
deficit, especially since rich text controls that have been available for
many years (and are still available) provide the methods to do it
automatically.

Neil

"Allen Browne" <Al*********@Se eSig.Invalidwro te in message
news:46******** *************** @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au ...
Neil, I don't understand your comment about not being able to assign
values programmaticall y.

Presumably you have a text box bound to a Memo field where the Rich Text
is set, or an unbound text box or text box bound to an expression, and the
Rich Text property is set. If that's the case, you should be able to set
the Control Source to something like:
="This has a <b>bold</dword."

Likewise, you can paste in text containing bulleted lists etc.

In HTML, you can justify a paragraph of text like this:
<p align="justify" >
I guess you are saying that the A2007 rich text box does not render that
correctly.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam. netwrote in message
news:GF******** ***********@new ssvr23.news.pro digy.net...
>Thanks, John. Yes, I checked Allen's list. It's a great resource. I
actually sent him a note about these two deficiencies, to see if he
wanted to add them to his list, but I haven't seen anything there or
heard back from him.

Neil

"John Mishefske" <jm**********@S PAMyahoo.comwro te in message
news:46******* *************** *@roadrunner.co m...
>>Neil wrote:
I posted a few days ago that it seems to me that the Access 2007 rich
text feature does not support: a) full text justification; b)
programmat ic manipulation.

I was hoping that someone might know one way or the other whether that
was true or not, or could point me to an article or help text that
would. What I have seen so far online and in Access 2007 help seems to
confirm the above. But that (or at least (b)) seems incredible that it
would be so.

I need to make a decision regarding implementing rich text features,
and I need to decide whether to go with Access 2007 or use a
third-party control. The answer to the above will determine my
decision.

I saw this nice compilation of issues with A2007 from Allen Browne:

http://allenbrowne.com/Access2007.html

--
'--------------------------
' John Mishefske
' UtterAccess Editor
' 2007 Microsoft Access MVP
'--------------------------

Jun 16 '07 #5
Okay: I'm not sure I see this as a huge deficit. Easy enough to knock up a
couple of functions to add the <band </bat SelStart and SelEnd etc if
you need that.

PlainText() is built in for going the other direction.

Perhaps it would be fair to say that the new HTML "rich text" is not mature
yet. Issues such as the way the spell-checker messes up the field bother me
more.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam. netwrote in message
news:nL******** ********@newssv r22.news.prodig y.net...
Yes, I suppose one can add the HTML codes manually, which works fine for
simple things like bolding, but would get a little dicier with complex
formatting.

But what I meant was that in RTF controls (such as the Microsoft Rich
Textbox control, or third-party controls, such as FMS's), you can change
the format of the text programmaticall y using methods built into the
control. For example, to set the below bold text, one would use the
SelBold method in conjuction with SelStart and SelLength. Again, with
simple examples it shouldn't matter; but with complex formatting it makes
a big difference to let the control set the RTF or HTML code for you.

So, it's those methods that appear to be missing from controls designated
as "rich text" in Access 2007. Having to set the HTML manually would be
huge deficit, especially since rich text controls that have been available
for many years (and are still available) provide the methods to do it
automatically.

Neil
Jun 16 '07 #6
Yes, I can see that. Let me say a couple of things (not that you have a
choice in the matter... ;-) ).

1) I think some of the more complex features, like bulleting, paragraph
spacing, etc., might be a little trickier -- but maybe not. Suffice it to
say that anyone going to a "rich text" control would expect a more
programmatic interface, and not to have to manually apply code.

2) With that in mind, and since your page is about upgrading to Access 2007,
someone who's currently using a rich textbox control (such as the Microsoft
one), and is thinking about upgrading to A07 to take advantage of the
built-in rich text capabilities, should know about the lack of methods
available for applying rich text. To "upgrade" to the A07 rich text control
would actually be a "downgrade" if they are used to (and have code written
for) built-in methods for their current control. Thus, it seems that that's
a significant issue for someone considering porting their app to A07.

3) In my application (currently using the MS Rich Textbox control) I need to
concatenate several RTF strings into a single file. Being a newbie at rich
textbox controls, I was unable to do it, until Stephen Lebans graciously
helped me out by pointing out the SelRTF and SelText methods of the Rich
Textbox control, which allow me to append one control's formatted text into
another. Without those methods, I'd have to work within the RTF code to
determine how to concatenate the two strings manually. Having the methods
available for manipulating the text makes a huge difference.

4) Though a separate issue, the lack of full text justification is
significant. The early versions of the rich textbox control (including the
Microsoft one) do not support full text justification. But the later
versions (based on a newer version of the RichEdit Window Class) do support
full text justification, as well as other advanced features. Thus, even
though the Microsoft Rich Text is HTML and not RTF, someone going into it in
2007 would expect that features that have been available with the RichEdit
Window Class would be available in the new MS Rich Text. But they're not.
Thus, again, for someone considering upgrading to A07, the lack of advanced
formatting capabilities would be a significant issue for them, since, if
they currently use those features, the A07 rich text would be a downgrade
for them.

5) Continuing on the last point, the MS rich text feature doesn't provide
the ability to set margins, tab stops, etc., etc. One can just apply the
code manually, as with the bold issue. But, again, these methods are
available in rich textbox controls, and have been for many years. The MS
rich text feature seems more geared towards just allowing users to work with
formatted text in forms and reports, and not for doing any serious work with
rich text. That feature (allowing users to work with formatted text) is a
great feature, and I'm glad it's there for the users. But someone upgrading
to A07 to use the rich text feature for anything serious would be sorely
disappointed at the lack of functionality it provides.

Thus, to me, all of the above are significant issues when considering
upgrading to A07 to use the rich text capabilities. To me, they make it not
worthwhile, and I'll probably just go with a third-party control (other than
the MS Rich Textbox control that I'm currently using) instead. So I think
the issues are significant.

Neil
"Allen Browne" <Al*********@Se eSig.Invalidwro te in message
news:46******** *************** @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au ...
Okay: I'm not sure I see this as a huge deficit. Easy enough to knock up a
couple of functions to add the <band </bat SelStart and SelEnd etc if
you need that.

PlainText() is built in for going the other direction.

Perhaps it would be fair to say that the new HTML "rich text" is not
mature yet. Issues such as the way the spell-checker messes up the field
bother me more.

--
Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia
Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html
Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org.

"Neil" <no****@nospam. netwrote in message
news:nL******** ********@newssv r22.news.prodig y.net...
>Yes, I suppose one can add the HTML codes manually, which works fine for
simple things like bolding, but would get a little dicier with complex
formatting.

But what I meant was that in RTF controls (such as the Microsoft Rich
Textbox control, or third-party controls, such as FMS's), you can change
the format of the text programmaticall y using methods built into the
control. For example, to set the below bold text, one would use the
SelBold method in conjuction with SelStart and SelLength. Again, with
simple examples it shouldn't matter; but with complex formatting it makes
a big difference to let the control set the RTF or HTML code for you.

So, it's those methods that appear to be missing from controls designated
as "rich text" in Access 2007. Having to set the HTML manually would be
huge deficit, especially since rich text controls that have been
available for many years (and are still available) provide the methods to
do it automatically.

Neil

Jun 16 '07 #7
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:19:53 GMT, "Neil" <no****@nospam. netwrote:

Couldn't you continue to use the old rich text control? You wouldn't
have to change any code.

-Tom.
<clip>
>
Thus, to me, all of the above are significant issues when considering
upgrading to A07 to use the rich text capabilities. To me, they make it not
worthwhile, and I'll probably just go with a third-party control (other than
the MS Rich Textbox control that I'm currently using) instead. So I think
the issues are significant.

Neil
<clip>

Jun 16 '07 #8
The point was whether it was worthwhile to upgrade to A07 in order to use
the built-in rich text capabilities. Using built-in features is usually
preferred to using an ActiveX control.

Also, the MS Rich Textbox control has problems after A2000. So it's either
go with a different control or use the A07 built-in rich text capabilities.
Plus, the MS Rich Textbox control doesn't support full text justification
(which I need), so I was hoping the A07 rich text capabilities did. But,
apparently, they're not ready for prime time, and they don't.
"Tom van Stiphout" <no************ *@cox.netwrote in message
news:fg******** *************** *********@4ax.c om...
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:19:53 GMT, "Neil" <no****@nospam. netwrote:

Couldn't you continue to use the old rich text control? You wouldn't
have to change any code.

-Tom.
<clip>
>>
Thus, to me, all of the above are significant issues when considering
upgrading to A07 to use the rich text capabilities. To me, they make it
not
worthwhile, and I'll probably just go with a third-party control (other
than
the MS Rich Textbox control that I'm currently using) instead. So I think
the issues are significant.

Neil
<clip>

Jun 16 '07 #9
Neil wrote:
The point was whether it was worthwhile to upgrade to A07 in order to
use the built-in rich text capabilities. Using built-in features is
usually preferred to using an ActiveX control.

Also, the MS Rich Textbox control has problems after A2000. So it's
either go with a different control or use the A07 built-in rich text
capabilities. Plus, the MS Rich Textbox control doesn't support full
text justification (which I need), so I was hoping the A07 rich text
capabilities did. But, apparently, they're not ready for prime time,
and they don't.
Point 1) In my opinion rich text has very little *real* value in a database
application. It screws you on just about anything that a database needs to do
with data. ANY limitations encountered when using Rich Text should be
attributed to using a database to store data not well suited to databases in the
first place. I.e . rich rext belongs in word processing software, not in
database tables.

Point 2) The rich text in Access 2007 is designed from the get-go to be
compatible with Sharepoint. MS couldn't care less about whatever previous Rich
Text control you might have been using and what features it provided. In other
words, previously there was nothing (native), and now there is something for
dealing with formatted text. Anything you were accomplishing before with
non-native controls is beside the point.

They might make the control more feature rich in the future, but only as
required to fit the vision that MS has for the feature in their broader
strategic goals. How *other* rich text controls work is not likely to be much
of a consideration.

--
Rick Brandt, Microsoft Access MVP
Email (as appropriate) to...
RBrandt at Hunter dot com

Jun 17 '07 #10

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

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