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Problems after inserting full doctype

CJM
I am building several (common) db-driven intranet sites (so I cant
post URL), using a 3-frame layout; header, menu & main pages. The
styling and some of the positioning is done via CSS.

Up until yesterday, I had incomplete Doctypes in my pages:

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.01 transitional//en">

But now I have the full/correct doctype for 4.01 transitional:

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.01 transitional//en"
"http://www.w3.org/tr/html4/loose.dtd">

But since I made the changes, I am having a few problems...

Example: Main entry page

<div class="wrapper" >
<div class="content" >
<h2>Intro</h2>
<p>Some text. Enough to word-wrap.</p>
<p>Some more text. Enough to word-wrap.</p>
<img id="MainPic" />
</div>
</div>
The relevant formatting from the CSS is as follows:

..content {
width:500px;
}
..wrapper {
text-align:center;
}

Body {
etc;
SCROLLBAR-BASE-COLOR: #f5f5dc;
etc;
}

Given all this, I would expect the text on this page to be a 500px
wide, left-justified block, which is centred within the frame. The img
should also be centred within the frame. The scrollbars should be
customised (in IE), with only the vertical scrollbar visible.

Instead, the text is a little over the full width of the frame, and
both scrollbars are visible, and are default shades. Other formatting
such as background/font colours etc are all OK.

This problem occurs on many pages, presumably for the same reasons...

I wondered if the non-standard scrollbar styling was messing things
uo, but the effect is the same with this removed...

Help! I can easily go back to the half doctype declaration/quirks
mode, but I'd rather understand this problem...

Thanks in advance

Chris
Jul 20 '05
13 4222

"CJM" <cj*****@yahoo. co.uk> wrote in message
news:c2******** *************** *@posting.googl e.com...
If my situation is not so unique after all, why haven't you provided
any insight?

It takes a little skill to spot the problem, but a great deal more to
suggest a solution.

We are in agreement that frames are not ideal, but you know the
circumstances surrounding my problem, so suggest an alternative. What
would you recommend?
Which major enterprises do you suggest I look at?

I could point out that www.eightninethree.com uses tables for layout,
which strictly speaking goes against the grain for the web, but I
wouldnt be very helpful unless I provided further information to
enlighten you: eg.
You could also point out that eightninethree. com is 23 pages of 100% valid
XHTML built dynamically with PHP and mySQL database(s)

And if you want to get into a pissing contest, there's baltimorepunk.c om -
16 pages of 100% valid XHTML STRICT with CSS layout built dynamically from
PHP and mySQL database(s). Also passes WCAG3 Accessibility guidelines with
exception to the lack of accesskeys/ tabindex

If you can think of a better solution than my iframe one, then point
me in the right direction.

Well, as you've already pointed out, there's the truly correct CSS layout.
Honestly, because you've not shown a URL, there's not much more anyone can
offer here.
I can't tell you how many times someone has posted a bit of markup that they
thought was the offending portion, only to find out their true issue lay
elsewhere.

Generally speaking, I feel confident saying that frames and i-frames carry
with them enough inherent evils that they just oughtn't be used at all.
Cheers

CJM

"EightNineThree " <ei************ @REMOVEeightnin ethree.com> wrote in

message news:<bd******* ***@ngspool-d02.news.aol.co m>...

Everyone has an excuse about why their situation is so unique that they have to go against the advice they're given.
No matter what excuse you come up with, I'll point out a major enterprise that has the same issue to deal with yet does not resort to frames.

Jul 20 '05 #11
In post <bd**********@n gspool-d02.news.aol.co m>
EightNineThree said...
baltimorepunk.c om - [...] passes WCAG3 Accessibility guidelines with
exception to the lack of accesskeys/ tabindex


unless you allow visitors to define their own accesskeys for repeat
visits i believe accesskeys are a hindrance to accessibility.

if/when a standard exists for accesskeys that is universally adopted
/and/ supported by the user it may not be such an issue but you will
still have people or areas with their own preferred keys.

a nice idea but i don't think they're practical to implement unless
the visitor can define their own.

--
brucie a. blackford. 01/July/2003 08:46:39 am kilo.
http://loser.brucies.com/
Jul 20 '05 #12
In article <bd**********@n gspool-d02.news.aol.co m>, one of infinite monkeys
at the keyboard of "EightNineThree " <ei************ @REMOVEeightnin ethree.com> wrote:

(this kind of comment is a challenge ... so I pointed AccessValet at it)
And if you want to get into a pissing contest, there's baltimorepunk.c om -
16 pages of 100% valid XHTML STRICT with CSS layout built dynamically from
PHP and mySQL database(s). Also passes WCAG3 Accessibility guidelines with
exception to the lack of accesskeys/ tabindex


Very nearly true - congratulations .

But you have a gratuitous violation of WCAG 3.5 where you have a
paragraph marked up as <h1 class="ahem">.

As for accesskey/tabindex, that's a problematic guideline, because
informed opinion[1] holds that they are rarely a good thing in practice.

[1[ not just you, me and brucie, but a consensus of w3c-wai-ig.

--
Nick Kew

In urgent need of paying work - see http://www.webthing.com/~nick/cv.html
Jul 20 '05 #13
"EightNineThree " <ei************ @REMOVEeightnin ethree.com> writes:
"Nick Kew" <ni**@fenris.we bthing.com> wrote...

But you have a gratuitous violation of WCAG 3.5 where you have a
paragraph marked up as <h1 class="ahem">.


you're right. I'm not even sure why my pea brain decided an <h1> was
appropriate there.


Actually, I'm quite sure why it did. There's that pubescent weblog
loccated at <http://webstandards.or g/> which used to suggest just that
(element type and class) in its now suspended BUC. As far as the
message itself is concerned, I'd recommend removing it completely,
because it sounds rather clueless in the 21st century (well, it always
sounded clueless in modern UAs that either did or did not implement
CSS).

--
<!DOCTYPO html>
Jul 20 '05 #14

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