border-collapse:collap se and seperates; Can you have it both ways in one table?

[Barbara de Zoete]

Here's what I'm trying to do:

Create a table with generic style property [ border-collapse:sepera te; ].
Have a few table cells in the thead that 'have to' melt into eachother, so
needing the style [ border-collapse:collap se; ].

Looking somthing like:

,------------.------------.
| | header |
| other | one | two |
|============|= =====|=====|
| data data | 1,25 | aA |
|------------|------|-----|
| more data | 2,50 | aB |
`------------'------'-----'

See how 'header' and 'one' and 'two' more or less optically melt into
eachother?

I've setup a test page at
<URL:http://www.pretletters .net/_test/testing_data_ta bles.REKAM_freq uenties.html>
(styles in the page). In the head of the table on that page the cells that
I optically want to melt into one are 'TV-station' and 'kort' and
'volledig'.

How can I achieve the look I want?

--
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| weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
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[Stephen Poley]

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:11:02 +0100, "Barbara de Zoete"
<tr******@pretl etters.net> wrote:

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 21:36:36 +0100, Jim Moe
<jm*********** ****@sohnen-moe.com> wrote:

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

Here's what I'm trying to do:
Create a table with generic style property [ border-collapse:sepera te;
].
Have a few table cells in the thead that 'have to' melt into eachother,
so
needing the style [ border-collapse:collap se; ].

Like this?:
<http://sohnen-moe.com/test/t.html>

Nice try, but no, that is not it. That solid border is something quite
different from the separate inset borders I'm after. I know the 'ascii-art
thingy' didn't have separate borders, but the example at
<URL:http://www.pretletters .net/_test/testing_data_ta bles.REKAM_freq uenties.html>
does. And the text explains it too.

Thanks for trying though.

Anyone else wants to have a go at this? It seems so simple a task, and
yet...

Sorry, I can't make any progress either. On reflection I think it
reasonable that combining the two border-collapse values isn't possible.
What you're trying to do isn't collapsing the borders, but trying to
fill in the space in between with a different colour.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

[Jim Moe]

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

Nice try, but no, that is not it. That solid border is something quite
different from the separate inset borders I'm after. I know the 'ascii-art
thingy' didn't have separate borders, but the example at
<URL:http://www.pretletters .net/_test/testing_data_ta bles.REKAM_freq uenties.html>
does. And the text explains it too.

Well, the URL shows your undesirable layout, not what you want. Your
ascii art shows that you do not want a border under "TV-station."
Basically you cannot get what you want, as I understand it. The table's
background color shines through any cell spacing (border-spacing)
regardless of cell border style.
See <http://sohnen-moe.com/test/t.html> (updated). Setting
border-spacing:0 removes the line under TV-station (the table's bg color
is no longer visible), but changes the <td>s border look.

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

[Barbara de Zoete]

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:12:53 +0100, Stephen Poley
<sb************ ******@xs4all.n l> wrote:

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:11:02 +0100, "Barbara de Zoete"
<tr******@pretl etters.net> wrote:

<URL:http://www.pretletters .net/_test/testing_data_ta bles.REKAM_freq uenties.html>

Anyone else wants to have a go at this? It seems so simple a task, and
yet...

Sorry, I can't make any progress either. On reflection I think it
reasonable that combining the two border-collapse values isn't possible.
What you're trying to do isn't collapsing the borders, but trying to
fill in the space in between with a different colour.

Euhm, no I don't think that is what I want. It would have more or less the
same effect, but it is not the same thing. The gaps should go away. The
border-spacing or cellspacing should go away, hence the border-collapse
thing.

But, hey, if the effect can be done in an other way, I'm happy to addept.
--
______PretLette rs:
| weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://www.pretletters.net/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://www.pretletters.net/html/vliegen.html |

[Barbara de Zoete]

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:14:48 +0100, Jim Moe
<jm************ ***@sohnen-moe.com> wrote:

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

Nice try, but no, that is not it. That solid border is something quite
different from the separate inset borders I'm after. I know the
'ascii-art
thingy' didn't have separate borders, but the example at
<URL:http://www.pretletters .net/_test/testing_data_ta bles.REKAM_freq uenties.html>
does. And the text explains it too.
Basically you cannot get what you want, as I understand it. The table's
background color shines through any cell spacing (border-spacing)
regardless of cell border style.

I've noticed that. That's why the borders on the involved cells were set
to 0, *and* I thought border-collapse:collap se; (combined with
cellspacing="0" or border-spacing:0; if necessary) would take care of
those cells without border then melting into one area. Those
attributes/values or properties/values don't work on anything but the
entire table though.
See <http://sohnen-moe.com/test/t.html> (updated). Setting
border-spacing:0 removes the line under TV-station (the table's bg color
is no longer visible), but changes the <td>s border look.

Yeah, the example shows pretty much the same effect I got so far. And I
know removing the border-spacing will change the look of the entire table,
which (in this casus) is undesirable.

Puzzle still not solved :-)

--
______PretLette rs:
| weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://www.pretletters.net/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://www.pretletters.net/html/vliegen.html |

[Els]

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:14:48 +0100, Jim Moe
<jm************ ***@sohnen-moe.com> wrote:

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

Nice try, but no, that is not it. That solid border is something quite
different from the separate inset borders I'm after. I know the
'ascii-art
thingy' didn't have separate borders, but the example at
<URL:http://www.pretletters .net/_test/testing_data_ta bles.REKAM_freq uenties.html>
does. And the text explains it too.

Basically you cannot get what you want, as I understand it. The table's
background color shines through any cell spacing (border-spacing)
regardless of cell border style.

I've noticed that. That's why the borders on the involved cells were set
to 0, *and* I thought border-collapse:collap se; (combined with
cellspacing="0" or border-spacing:0; if necessary) would take care of
those cells without border then melting into one area. Those
attributes/values or properties/values don't work on anything but the
entire table though.

See <http://sohnen-moe.com/test/t.html> (updated). Setting
border-spacing:0 removes the line under TV-station (the table's bg color
is no longer visible), but changes the <td>s border look.

Yeah, the example shows pretty much the same effect I got so far. And I
know removing the border-spacing will change the look of the entire table,
which (in this casus) is undesirable.

Puzzle still not solved :-)

The only thing I can come up with, is using border-style:ridge; on the
cells (and collapsing the borders), and set the border-width wide
enough so that the actual ridge looks like border-spacing. The side
effect though, is that the "shadows" in the cells get just as wide
too, which I don't think you like.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/

Now playing: Technohead - I Wanna Be A Hippy

[Jim Moe]

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

Basically you cannot get what you want, as I understand it.

[ ... border-spacing, border-collapse ...] Those
attributes/values or properties/values don't work on anything but the
entire table though.

This is true.
Puzzle still not solved :-)

And it will never be. Not without changing your requirements.

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

[Stephen Poley]

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 08:34:18 +0100, "Barbara de Zoete"
<tr******@pretl etters.net> wrote:

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:12:53 +0100, Stephen Poley
<sb*********** *******@xs4all. nl> wrote:

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:11:02 +0100, "Barbara de Zoete"
<tr******@pretl etters.net> wrote:

<URL:http://www.pretletters .net/_test/testing_data_ta bles.REKAM_freq uenties.html>

Anyone else wants to have a go at this? It seems so simple a task, and
yet...
Sorry, I can't make any progress either. On reflection I think it
reasonable that combining the two border-collapse values isn't possible.
What you're trying to do isn't collapsing the borders, but trying to
fill in the space in between with a different colour.

Euhm, no I don't think that is what I want. It would have more or less the
same effect, but it is not the same thing. The gaps should go away. The
border-spacing or cellspacing should go away, hence the border-collapse
thing.

Right, but (unless I'm getting completely confused) the use of
border-collapse means that the cells (other than the first) are actually
placed in a different position - they get shunted leftwards and upwards.
And that you don't want.
But, hey, if the effect can be done in an other way, I'm happy to addept.

Well ... there's always an image. <dives under the table at great
speed>

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/