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Xah's Edu Corner: Tech Geekers and their Style

Sometimes you want your text to flow into multiple columns, as in
newspaper's layout. However, as of 2005-12 this is not yet possible.
One can make-do by hard-coding it into HTML TABLE using multiple
columns. It is a pain because when you change your text, you have to
manually cut and paste to justify each and every columns by
trial-n-error.

A proposed solution is in CSS3 “Multi-column layout”, drafted in
2001 but not yet in any mainstream browsers as of 2005-12. See
http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-css3-multicol-20010118/

With all the whizbang of styles and features in CSS2, a basic,
necessary, functional layout feature as multi-columns is not there yet.
This is a indication of the fatuousness of the IT industry's
technologies and its people.

Xah
xa*@xahlee.org
http://xahlee.org/

--------------------------------------
Xah Lee wrote:

sometimes in the last few months, apparently Microsoft made changes to
their JavaScript documentation website:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...bfe2330aa9.asp

so that, one has to goddamn press the "expand" button to view the
documentation, for every goddamn page.

What the fuck is going on?

And, good url before the change are now broken (giving HTTP error 404).

Many of the newfangled buttons such as "Copy Code" doesn't goddamn work

in Safari, FireFox, iCab, Mac IE.

And, in any of these browsers, the code examples becomes single
congested block without any line breaks. e.g.

«Circle.protot ype.pi = Math.PI; function ACirclesArea () { return
this.pi * this.r * this.r; // The formula for the area of a circle is
r<SUP>2</SUP>. } Circle.prototyp e.area = ACirclesArea; // The function
that calculates the area of a circle is now a method of the Circle
Prototype object. var a = ACircle.area(); // This is how you would
invoke the area function on a Circle object.»
There are two interpretations to this Microsoft's JavaScript doc
problem:

1. They didn't do it intentionally.

2. They did it intentionally.

If (1), then it would be a fucking incompetence of inordinate order. If
(2), they would be assholes, even though they have the right to do so.

On the other hand, in terms of documentation quality, technological
excellence, responsibility in software, Microsoft in the 21st century
is the holder of human progress when compared to the motherfucking Open
Sourcers lying thru their teeth fuckheads.

Dec 30 '05
28 2482
kchayka wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:
[re: readability of justified text]

I quasi-conceded for long lines, but stuck with my short columns
which was the subject at hand and asked you to compare. You didn't,
so we're not even on the same page.

It sounds like you think this is the first case of justified text we've
ever come across.


Good for you and your "we" club. Is this the same membership as in the
"they say" club?
I for one don't need to make a specific test case to
know how readability will compare on-screen between justified text and
left-aligned.
Alright, another man that knows what he likes. Please don't bother to
make any extra effort regarding this piddly matter.
Left-aligned wins unless the paragraphs are very short,
then it doesn't matter much either way.
In this instance, in case you have not gone to the link, they are narrow
columns and exactly my point. I guess you did not read where I mention
that it does matter, since with ragged-right it gets difficult to
determine where the column ends if the inter-column gutter is not wide
enough. With justified text, it is much easier.
BTW, I have a special bookmarklet that changes all text on a page to
left-aligned. I only use it on sites that use justified text. ;)


What do you do with books and newspapers?

--
Gus
Jan 5 '06 #21
Gus Richter wrote:

What do you do with books and newspapers?


How many times does someone have to say it... the web is not paper.
Reading on-screen is not the same as reading on paper, either.

--
Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
Jan 5 '06 #22
kchayka wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:
What do you do with books and newspapers?


How many times does someone have to say it... the web is not paper.
Reading on-screen is not the same as reading on paper, either.


I gotta say, I've read this thread with, at first, great interest and
then growing amusement. And then I started to pay attention. I do read
books. I read magazines. I read newspapers. And I'm online a minimum
of probably 8 hours a day. I rarely notice how text is justified.
Unless ... I come across something that is out of the ordinary for the
particular medium (or, perhaps, if I'm Web surfing for layout design
examples which means I'm deliberately looking at such things). I do
notice it when I'm especially annoyed by layout that is counterintuitiv e
such as Web-based, newspaper style, multi-column layouts. Doing some
Googling for studies on usability I see some studies suggesting that
some majority of those studied prefer one way in a particular medium.
But it's hardly overwhelming. It does seem to be somewhat personal, and
it seems that a lot of people couldn't care less. Until layout becomes
intrusive, as I mentioned above.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
Jan 5 '06 #23
kchayka wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:
What do you do with books and newspapers?

How many times does someone have to say it... the web is not paper.
Reading on-screen is not the same as reading on paper, either.


I'll stop at this point and allow you finish with another tiresome cliché.

--
Gus
Jan 6 '06 #24
In article <5M************ ********@golden .net>,
Gus Richter <gu********@net scape.net> wrote:
kchayka wrote:

How many times does someone have to say it... the web is not paper.
Reading on-screen is not the same as reading on paper, either.


I'll stop at this point and allow you finish with another tiresome cliché.


But it's not a cliché. Can you take a folio and reduce it to the size of
a book? Can you take a folio and reduce it to the size of a paperback
novel? You can do all that on a proper website and increase the size of
the font to be readable to the visually impaired to boot. And make it
intelligible to people who can't see. Poorly written sites can't do it
though. Neither can anything written on paper.
It's a new world. It will win over the layout artists of the old one on
this medium. The scribes of the fifteenth century coexisted for a
hundred years with the printing press, but I think the interval will be
shorter this time.

leo

--
<http://web0.greatbasin .net/~leo/>
Jan 6 '06 #25
Ed Mullen wrote:

It does seem to be somewhat personal, and
it seems that a lot of people couldn't care less.
What I really get a laugh about is the saying of, "You can't teach an
old dog new tricks" when in fact my experience is the opposite, that the
younger guys resist change the most and want to maintain the status quo.
Until layout becomes
intrusive, as I mentioned above.


What about the other segment which prefers justified? Wouldn't it be
nice to have an alternate stylesheet to satisfy all? I stated my
personal preference and don't look to convert anyone, but rather respect
their preferences. On the other hand, I don't appreciate being told that
my personal preference is wrong, that my preference had been discussed
before and that it was determined that my preference was decidedly odd.

--
Gus
Jan 6 '06 #26
Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>
> BTW, I have a special bookmarklet that changes all text on a page to
> left-aligned. I only use it on sites that use justified text. ;)

What do you do with books and newspapers?

How many times does someone have to say it... the web is not paper.
Reading on-screen is not the same as reading on paper, either.


I'll stop at this point and allow you finish with another tiresome cliché.


But it's not a cliché. Can you take a folio and reduce it to the size of
a book? Can you take a folio and reduce it to the size of a paperback
novel? You can do all that on a proper website and increase the size of
the font to be readable to the visually impaired to boot. And make it
intelligible to people who can't see. Poorly written sites can't do it
though. Neither can anything written on paper.
It's a new world. It will win over the layout artists of the old one on
this medium. The scribes of the fifteenth century coexisted for a
hundred years with the printing press, but I think the interval will be
shorter this time.


Unbelievable! Do any of you two know how to read? Here is a recap from
the above:

"kchayka" said that he uses a bookmarlette to change text to left-aligned.
"I" responded (with tongue in cheek), asking what he did with printed
material (that uses justify).
"kchayka" answers back with a clich totally out of context.
"I" tried to end the discussion due to communication problems.
"Leo" interjects by expounding his views regarding the clich, thereby
exhibiting the same communication problem.

I shall refrain from tongue in cheek comments in the future, or indicate
such to avoid confusion.

--
Gus
Jan 6 '06 #27
In article <pZ************ *************** ***@golden.net> ,
Gus Richter <gu********@net scape.net> wrote:
I shall refrain from tongue in cheek comments in the future, or indicate
such to avoid confusion.


But I just learned how to read yesterday! The buzzword was cliche. I
admit I didn't follow the top of the thread. I stand by my soapbox, but
I wouldn't have mounted it if I thought you were tongue in cheek. Sorry.

leo

--
<http://web0.greatbasin .net/~leo/>
Jan 6 '06 #28
Gus Richter wrote:
Ed Mullen wrote:

It does seem to be somewhat personal, and it seems that a lot of
people couldn't care less.
What I really get a laugh about is the saying of, "You can't teach an
old dog new tricks" when in fact my experience is the opposite, that the
younger guys resist change the most and want to maintain the status quo.


Couldn't agree more. Of course, this is coming from "an old dog." ;-)
Until layout becomes intrusive, as I mentioned above.


What about the other segment which prefers justified? Wouldn't it be
nice to have an alternate stylesheet to satisfy all? I stated my
personal preference and don't look to convert anyone, but rather respect
their preferences. On the other hand, I don't appreciate being told that
my personal preference is wrong, that my preference had been discussed
before and that it was determined that my preference was decidedly odd.


I suspect that in Mozilla-based browsers using the userChrome and
userContent css files you could, potentially, create rules that would
override a Web page's justification. Being able to impose personal
preferences like this is (generally) a good thing. And another example
of why fluid design is also a good thing.

And, sure, no one especially likes being attacked on an ad-hominem
level. On the other hand, I'm always right until I'm wrong so I try not
to let that make me crazy. :-D Besides, it's obviously a matter of
choice, no one is harmed either way, so why pay any attention to
strident condemnations that are clearly misguided?

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
Jan 7 '06 #29

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