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Xah's Edu Corner: Tech Geekers and their Style

Sometimes you want your text to flow into multiple columns, as in
newspaper's layout. However, as of 2005-12 this is not yet possible.
One can make-do by hard-coding it into HTML TABLE using multiple
columns. It is a pain because when you change your text, you have to
manually cut and paste to justify each and every columns by
trial-n-error.

A proposed solution is in CSS3 “Multi-column layout”, drafted in
2001 but not yet in any mainstream browsers as of 2005-12. See
http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-css3-multicol-20010118/

With all the whizbang of styles and features in CSS2, a basic,
necessary, functional layout feature as multi-columns is not there yet.
This is a indication of the fatuousness of the IT industry's
technologies and its people.

Xah
xa*@xahlee.org
http://xahlee.org/

--------------------------------------
Xah Lee wrote:

sometimes in the last few months, apparently Microsoft made changes to
their JavaScript documentation website:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/de...bfe2330aa9.asp

so that, one has to goddamn press the "expand" button to view the
documentation, for every goddamn page.

What the fuck is going on?

And, good url before the change are now broken (giving HTTP error 404).

Many of the newfangled buttons such as "Copy Code" doesn't goddamn work

in Safari, FireFox, iCab, Mac IE.

And, in any of these browsers, the code examples becomes single
congested block without any line breaks. e.g.

«Circle.protot ype.pi = Math.PI; function ACirclesArea () { return
this.pi * this.r * this.r; // The formula for the area of a circle is
r<SUP>2</SUP>. } Circle.prototyp e.area = ACirclesArea; // The function
that calculates the area of a circle is now a method of the Circle
Prototype object. var a = ACircle.area(); // This is how you would
invoke the area function on a Circle object.»
There are two interpretations to this Microsoft's JavaScript doc
problem:

1. They didn't do it intentionally.

2. They did it intentionally.

If (1), then it would be a fucking incompetence of inordinate order. If
(2), they would be assholes, even though they have the right to do so.

On the other hand, in terms of documentation quality, technological
excellence, responsibility in software, Microsoft in the 21st century
is the holder of human progress when compared to the motherfucking Open
Sourcers lying thru their teeth fuckheads.

Dec 30 '05
28 2482
Gus Richter wrote:
Ed Mullen wrote:
kchayka wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:

This page works pretty well with Fx 1.5:
<http://weblogs.mozilla zine.org/roc/archives/2005/03/gecko_18_for_we .html>

"Works pretty well" is in the eye of the beholder.


Very nice assessment.


All I can say to you two is that you are free to ingnore and not use it.


As a user, I guess I'll "not use it" by boycotting sites that use this
silly thing, eh?

--
Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
Jan 2 '06 #11
Gus Richter wrote:

« This page works pretty well with Fx 1.5:
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/a...18_for_we.html


It looks way better when text-align:justify is applied.


Left aligned text is much easier to read. You do care about usability,
don't you?

--
Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
Jan 2 '06 #12
kchayka wrote:

All I can say to you two is that you are free to ingnore and not use it.


As a user, I guess I'll "not use it" by boycotting sites that use this
silly thing, eh?


Your choice and your opinion.
You were also one of those knocking CSS a few years ago, yes?

--
Gus
Jan 2 '06 #13
kchayka wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:
« This page works pretty well with Fx 1.5:
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/a...18_for_we.html


It looks way better when text-align:justify is applied.

Left aligned text is much easier to read. You do care about usability,
don't you?


Sadly, it's your opinion without trying it. Apply it and see the
difference. I find it easier to read when justified and is aesthetically
superior.

--
Gus
Jan 2 '06 #14
Gus Richter wrote:
Ed Mullen wrote:
kchayka wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:

This page works pretty well with Fx 1.5:

<http://weblogs.mozilla zine.org/roc/archives/2005/03/gecko_18_for_we .html>

"Works pretty well" is in the eye of the beholder.

This does show one of the major problems with multi-columns on-screen -
what happens when there is more content than can fit in the viewport.
It's just plain stoopid to scroll down to read one column then have to
scroll back to the top to continue reading the same article, maybe even
the same sentence. It boggles the mind why anyone thinks this is a good
thing.

If you want to prevent long lines of text, set a paragraph max-width and
be done with it. You don't need these silly columns to accomplish it.


Very nice assessment. I don't know about anyone else but this person
reads left to right and then top to bottom. It's an Internet page
viewed on a browser window of my choice, meaning I can override most
(if not all) of the author's settings. It is NOT a newspaper. It's a
different media: What? The designers never heard of Marshall MacLuhan?

If it won't fit in MY view screen I just want to keep reading DOWN.
Not down and then up and the left and then right and ... ok? I could
resort to invective but just let me say that anyone trying to design a
Web page to force me to view it "as you want me to" is doomed to
failure. And, in the process, you will alienate your audience. Is
this sensible marketing?

No.

It's stupid marketing. Let it flow, design it so you accommodate
every reader. And then /most/ readers will thank you. Design it for
some narrow market segment and you'll satisfy that narrow segment and
tick off everyone else.

As for the Int'l Herald, I could care less if they appeal to anyone or
no one.


All I can say to you two is that you are free to ingnore and not use it.

My original post wasn't meant to deride anything standards efforts or
clever design. I appreciate this much the same way I might appreciate
the design of a car that runs on recovered restaurant grease as fuel.
It's academically interesting, admirable from an intellectual
standpoint, but I'm not about to try to convert my BMW just because it's
a "cool idea." It's not practical and, to me, makes no sense from a
useage standpoint. That's what I was trying to say.

If I ranted a bit and made offense, I apologize. But I stand by my
assessment that this is only intellectually interesting: That is, it
makes no sense in the real world, in the way that real people read. I
may admire the cleverness involved in solving the academic problem, I
may admire the elegance of the solution, but I disagree with the notion
that this was a problem in need of a solution. It, still, simply doesn't
make any sense from a human factors standpoint.

So, I admire, I apologize, and I still will shy away from
implementations of this "solution." Kay? No harm, no foul? ;-)
--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net
Jan 2 '06 #15
Gus Richter wrote:
kchayka wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:
« This page works pretty well with Fx 1.5:
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/a...18_for_we.html

It looks way better when text-align:justify is applied.


Left aligned text is much easier to read. You do care about usability,
don't you?


Sadly, it's your opinion without trying it. Apply it and see the
difference. I find it easier to read when justified and is aesthetically
superior.

ROFL! As though this exact question--whether full or left-only
justification is better for readability--hadn't already been studied
exhaustively. It's a fact that for the most part people are better able
to navigate visually from one line to the next, without winding up on
the wrong line, when the right margin is ragged. As for esthetic
factors, they are often at odds with usability.
Jan 3 '06 #16
Harlan Messinger wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:
kchayka wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:

> « This page works pretty well with Fx 1.5:
> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/a...18_for_we.html

It looks way better when text-align:justify is applied.
Left aligned text is much easier to read. You do care about usability,
don't you?

Sadly, it's your opinion without trying it. Apply it and see the
difference. I find it easier to read when justified and is
aesthetically superior.

ROFL! As though this exact question--whether full or left-only
justification is better for readability--hadn't already been studied
exhaustively. It's a fact that for the most part people are better able
to navigate visually from one line to the next, without winding up on
the wrong line, when the right margin is ragged. As for esthetic
factors, they are often at odds with usability.


ROFLMAO! Another one that did not try to apply it as suggested.
Although this may be true for long lines (questionable studies, since I
find line to line navigation equally bothersome when ragged-right), the
subject example is using narrow columns. One would have to be cross-eyed
not to be able to follow line by line. With ragged-right, it confuses as
to where the column ends if the gutter between columns is not wide
enough and if there is no visual separator. Stand in the corner with the
other two.

--
Gus
Jan 3 '06 #17
Gus Richter wrote:
ROFLMAO! Another one that did not try to apply it as suggested.
Although this may be true for long lines (questionable studies, since I
find line to line navigation equally bothersome when ragged-right), the
subject example is using narrow columns. One would have to be cross-eyed
not to be able to follow line by line. With ragged-right, it confuses as
to where the column ends if the gutter between columns is not wide
enough and if there is no visual separator. Stand in the corner with the
other two.

Well, again, you insist that we start from scratch, as though this issue
is new and needs a fresh look instead of being something old and
long-since settled. Do you think the conclusion changes every time
someone new comes along who hasn't considered the issue before?
Jan 3 '06 #18
Harlan Messinger wrote:
Gus Richter wrote:
ROFLMAO! Another one that did not try to apply it as suggested.
Although this may be true for long lines (questionable studies, since
I find line to line navigation equally bothersome when ragged-right),
the subject example is using narrow columns. One would have to be
cross-eyed not to be able to follow line by line. With ragged-right,
it confuses as to where the column ends if the gutter between columns
is not wide enough and if there is no visual separator. Stand in the
corner with the other two.

Well, again, you insist that we start from scratch, as though this issue
is new and needs a fresh look instead of being something old and
long-since settled. Do you think the conclusion changes every time
someone new comes along who hasn't considered the issue before?


I insist on nothing. I read. I determine what I like and don't like. I
like justified text. I think it looks better and can be read just as
easily as ragged right, if not easier. I can't recall reading a book
which was ragged right. So it has been discussed, you say, and the
consensus was that ragged right is easier to read? Was there a survey
taken of 500 random people? It was a handful here, right? Probably
browbeaten by 2 or 3 vocal members. There may even be some publication
wherein the author states this opinion as well, but it would be again
just his opinion. For any of this, I should accept what goes against
what I like? I think not! I quasi-conceded for long lines, but stuck
with my short columns which was the subject at hand and asked you to
compare. You didn't, so we're not even on the same page. As they say, "I
don't know anything about art, but I know what I like" and regarding
'justify' in the columns themselves, I like them both. I imagine others
like it as well since justify has been around for a while and they put
columns in CSS3 and Mozilla has implemented it. So you and the other two
in your corner don't like them. No problem with that. It's all in the
eye of the beholder.

--
Gus
Jan 4 '06 #19
Gus Richter wrote:
[re: readability of justified text]

I quasi-conceded for long lines, but stuck with my short columns
which was the subject at hand and asked you to compare. You didn't,
so we're not even on the same page.


It sounds like you think this is the first case of justified text we've
ever come across. I for one don't need to make a specific test case to
know how readability will compare on-screen between justified text and
left-aligned. Left-aligned wins unless the paragraphs are very short,
then it doesn't matter much either way.

BTW, I have a special bookmarklet that changes all text on a page to
left-aligned. I only use it on sites that use justified text. ;)

--
Reply email address is a bottomless spam bucket.
Please reply to the group so everyone can share.
Jan 4 '06 #20

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