The XHTML file below creates a 2x2 matrix of square images. There is
always some space at the bottom borders of the cells (when rendered
with Gecko and KHTML, not with IE) and I've found no way so far to
make it disappear. If I use XHTML 1.0 Transitional instead of Strict
the extra space below the cells disappears.
Is it impossible to create seamless images tables in XHTML Strict?
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<style type="text/css">
table.puzzle{
border-collapse: collapse;
border: 1px solid red;
}
.puzzle td {
padding: 0;
}
img {
}
</style>
</head>
<body>
<table class="puzzle">
<tr>
<td><img src="p00.jpg" /></td>
<td><img src="p10.jpg" /></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><img src="p01.jpg" /></td>
<td><img src="p11.jpg" /></td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0 BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\ n'.decode('base 64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jul 24 '05
16  7672 
Alan J. Flavell schrieb: Or to put it another way, I can understand that there's a sentiment in
favour of doing things the bad old way - but then why would one want
to move to Strict XHTML "just for the sake of itself"? One of the
aims of "Strict" (and that means HTML/4.01 Strict just as much as it
means XHTML Strict) was to get rid of presentational clutter from the
logical markup.
That's why I'm using XHTML.
So you got yourself a new dog but you're still barking like the old
one yourself, it seems.
You can't tell how I bark because you don't know what I'm doing.
There are situations when a grid layout is appropriate (e.g. to
visualize relations) and the HTML tool for this is the table tag.
I think you've got that back to front. The table is the tool to
*mark up* the logical relations.
You are right. I shouldn't have used the word "layout" when talking
about HTML. But I'm creating a 2D board game so layout was on my mind.
The board layout is done with CSS. The table related tags have only
class attributes.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a discussion about theory.
As far as I'm concerned, I wanted to solve a practical problem with
XHTML. I could have easily solved it with messy HTML but I didn't
want to. Thanks for your help.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0 BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\ n'.decode('base 64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan J. Flavell schrieb: I think you've got that back to front. The table is the tool to
*mark up* the logical relations.
Formally you are right. But HTML was created solely for presentational
purposes and this is still true for XHTML. If you only cared about
logic then you would't need (X)HTML at all. You would create an XML
file representing the special logic of your document and format it
with CSS. (X)HTML is only useful because there are browsers with
default stylesheets for HTML tags otherwise nobody would use HTML.
So your understanding of presentation-free HTML may be theoretically
interesting but is practically useless.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0 BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\ n'.decode('base 64')
-------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:55:43 +0200, Peter Maas <pe***@somewher e.com>
wrote: If you only cared about
logic then you would't need (X)HTML at all. You would create an XML
file representing the special logic of your document
You can't represent "logic" in XML alone. XML goes no further than
Infoset (a very crude data model), it doesn't have any implied
semantics. If you want to communicate semantics with XML, then as a
minimum you need to use a schema that's pre-agreed by both parties.
A convenient schema to use in this case would be that of (X)HTML. You
could just as well use DocBook, but you have to use _something_ if
there's to be any notion of "meaning". As such, then you might as well
use one of these pre-established schema.
It's also not possible to practically render XML by using CSS alone -
CSS' output is restricted to static rendering, so no <img> or <a>
--
Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet.
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005, Peter Maas wrote: Alan J. Flavell schrieb: Or to put it another way, I can understand that there's a
sentiment in favour of doing things the bad old way - but then why
would one want to move to Strict XHTML "just for the sake of
itself"? One of the aims of "Strict" (and that means HTML/4.01
Strict just as much as it means XHTML Strict) was to get rid of
presentational clutter from the logical markup.
That's why I'm using XHTML.
I hear what you say, but this seems to be the wrong category.
Here's a broad-brush analysis:
Transitional: Strict:
HTML: Presentational clutter Content/presentation split
XHTML: Presentational clutter Content/presentation split
Now tell me again, why should one choose XHTML rather than HTML
on *that* basis?
You say you want to avoid presentational clutter. So I say you should
choose Strict.
By all means choose XHTML if you know why you want to choose XHTML,
but this isn't the reason.
So you got yourself a new dog but you're still barking like the
old one yourself, it seems.
You can't tell how I bark because you don't know what I'm doing.
We can all read what you -say- you are doing - and that's the basis
for discussion here. If you're not telling the truth about what
you're really doing, then who cares what it is that you're really
doing?
As far as I'm concerned, this is a discussion about theory.
As far as I'm concerned, I wanted to solve a practical problem with
XHTML.
Welcome to usenet. I responded in the course of discussion. If that
happens to solve your original problem, that's fine too. But I don't
treat usenet as my personal help desk, and neither should you. IMHO as
a long-time usenet participant, that is.
I could have easily solved it with messy HTML
You *could* equally have solved it with messy XHTML Transitional, if
you had been happy with a Transitional solution. Whether you are or
aren't willing to do that, has rather little to do with the direct
choice of HTML versus XHTML, but a great deal to do with your choice
of Strict over Transitional.
Bye for now.
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005, Peter Maas wrote: But HTML was created solely for presentational
purposes and this is still true for XHTML.
You're remarkably stubborn.
I was aware of the early life of HTML at the time. I know that you
will find some evidence which supports your claim. I also know that
you are, in principle and on balance, quite wrong. HTML was motivated
from the start by the need to present content on widely diverse
presentation devices. They were different then than the devices we
use today, but they were nevertheless widely diverse.
Consequently, the idea of HTML specifying details of the presentation
(as promoted by the Mosaic/Netscape axis) was an ultimately doomed
digression, if the original intentions of HTML were ever to be
realised.
If you only cared about logic then you would't need (X)HTML at all.
You would create an XML file representing the special logic of your
document and format it with CSS.
When the structural elements of HTML are so totally inappropriate as
to be useful for the purpose, then naturally some other markup is
needed. MathML, music markup, whatever. I don't see how that relates
to our discussion of transitional (x)html versus strict (x)html.
(X)HTML is only useful because there are browsers with default
stylesheets for HTML tags otherwise nobody would use HTML.
I don't disagree with what you say - but I don't see what light it
throws on the points that we were discussing.
So your understanding of presentation-free HTML
I'd rather say "HTML free of unnecessary presentational detail".
may be theoretically interesting but is practically useless.
CSSzengarden.
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:55:43 +0200, Peter Maas <pe***@somewher e.com>
wrote: Alan J. Flavell schrieb: I think you've got that back to front. The table is the tool to
*mark up* the logical relations.
Formally you are right. But HTML was created solely for presentational
purposes and this is still true for XHTML.
That's not true:
The specific incentive that TBL had for his "invention" of HTML (and
HTTP) was to make it possible to access information in a uniform way
regardless of where that information was stored and/or produced.
It still holds today, as it does not matter what kind of hardware or
filing system you have at each end of an HTTP transaction.
Mind you also that the browser that TBL wrote to demonstrate his idea,
and to get funds to realize it, _did_ have its presentational aspect
controlled by a separate style sheet.
The first history of HTML/HTTP is available at the W3 site if you would
find it interesting to read up on it.
--
Rex
Alan J. Flavell schrieb: But HTML was created solely for presentational
purposes and this is still true for XHTML.
You're remarkably stubborn.
I surrender.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Tel +49-241-93878-0
E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0 BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\ n'.decode('base 64')
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