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No future for DB2

This article is very bleak about future of DB2. How credible is the
author. http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1839681,00.asp

Nov 12 '05
375 18198
bka
Mark is correct: range partitioning has been in Informix XPS and DB2
zOS for a long time. Caring about where the data is placed physically
goes against Codd's principles of relational database, and DB2 LUW has
focussed on MDC and hash partitioning. The acquisition of Informix XPS
changed the priority of range partitioning in DB2 plans, I am sure.

My own belief and expereiences are that the short-term benefits to
INSERT/UPDATE/DELETE for range partitioning are outweighed by the
benefits of hash partitioning for ad hoc SELECTs, and that improvements
in hardware surpass what a DBA can do trying to place data with range
partitioning. Oracle TPC-H benchmarks with range seem to show that
learning the data and where is should be placed can be a tedious task.
Eventually, you have to trust the RDBMS, operating system and disk
subsystem developers (and Moore's law).

Nov 12 '05 #181
Serge Rielau apparently said,on my timestamp of 31/07/2005 1:15 AM:
The only platform Oracle was never ported to, is AS/400


There *is* a God!...


Nope - well at least that ain't proof - AS/400's interfaces are not open.
Aside if Oracle ran on OS/400 it would be running on DB2..
Now that would be funny indeed.


Hmmmmmm.... I conclude that db2/as400's interfaces are not open.
Now, there is an interesting twitch to the argument
the product is the same across all platforms...

<g,d&r>
--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in sunny Sydney, Australia
wi*******@yahoo .com.au.nospam
Nov 12 '05 #182
DA Morgan apparently said,on my timestamp of 31/07/2005 3:32 AM:

replying to both:
never. Don't know where the shops are that are using Java, and
most certainly don't see any commercial applications using it.
I have seen a couple of file-manager-applets, but not much
else, or installation programs. Maybe inside intranet apps,
but even there never heard of many.

Seen a few Intranet apps. Developed by sites that can afford
the extreme resources needed to develop ANYTHING in Java/J2EE.
I'm seeing a little dotnot + Java use, although I seriously
question the sanity of anyone doing so. Unless of course
they already have inhouse Java skills.

Again the deciding factor may be geography. I see a lot of Java
here in the US Pacific Northwest. See a lot of .NET too ... but
the interest in .NET seems to be waning and interest in PHP
increasing.


Well, it depends on what you look at. Client-side, I still see a
lot of Javascript. But it is being more and more replaced by
serverside scriptlets with php. PHP seems to be THE technology to
replace/complement the zillions of Javascript lines out there.
As for Java applets, they almost don't register. There is a lot
of flash stuff. dotnot doesn't register either, but then again
it's NOT a client-side architecture!

Server-side, Java and J2EE have a presence in larger sites that can
afford development workstations more powerful than the target
server and other deranged architectural decisions. Where damagement
is too heavily bought out by the big makers. Other than that, it's
mostly a non-event nowadays: anyone with half a brain and finite
financial resources has gone dotnot all the way. Some are still
using Java, but the overall bottom line seems to be C# and VB.

And that is, IMHO, the MAJOR OVERWHELMING advantage that M$ has got
and the competition hasn't yet clicked into: you are NOT locked-in
to one language. You use whatever language expertise is easier and
cheaper to find! A lesson in TRUE openness that Oracle seems to
have COMPLETELY forgotten.

Not before time Java/J2EE gets thrown off the landscape, quite
frankly: never seen such a pile of rubbish being touted as a
"technology ". What that will do to those like Oracle (and IBM)
who invested heavily on the deranged thing, well, we'll see.
They were clearly warned, MANY TIMES, the whole thing was an
exercise in applied stupidity. You got Sun to thank for that
lunacy.

Maybe we'll see some management finally biting the bullet and
cleansweeping the Java crap off the place? Sure, it'll have to
be washed with liberal applications of marketing bullshit.
That shouldn't be a problem.
--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in sunny Sydney, Australia
wi*******@yahoo .com.au.nospam
Nov 12 '05 #183
Data Goob apparently said,on my timestamp of 31/07/2005 10:14 AM:
Most popular web server: Apache
http://www.securityspace.com/s_surve...com/index.html
:) Guess which language apatchy and IIS are written in?
Hint: it's *not* Java.

To bolster the "there-isn't-any-Java" argument:
http://www.securityspace.com/s_surve...6/techpen.html


welll...... the argument is not that. The argument is:
"Java is NOWHERE near as widespread as it is hyped to be"
And I wasn't talking about the client-side.

But I guess in the client-side, it's even less so. :)
--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in sunny Sydney, Australia
wi*******@yahoo .com.au.nospam
Nov 12 '05 #184
bka apparently said,on my timestamp of 31/07/2005 8:11 AM:
Nothing like lots of capital letters to advance a technical argument!

You must practise Llap-Goch
(http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/8456/Llapgoch.htm):

" ... the Secret Welsh ART of SELF DEFENCE that requires NO
INTELLIGENCE, STRENGTH or PHYSICAL courage

The FANTASTIC SECRETS of the SECRET world-famous method of SELF
DEFENCE, kept secret for centuries because of their DEADLY POWER to
MAIM, KILL, SMASH, BATTER, FRACTURE, CRUSH, DISMEMBER, CRACK,
DISEMBOWEL, CRIPPLE, SNAP and HARM are now revealed to YOU in the
English Language by a LLAPGOCH master AT HIS OWN RISK, PROVIDED you
promise to MAIM, CRUSH, DISEMBOWEL and so on ONLY in SELF DEFENCE.*
* This is just to cover ourselves, as you will understand.

WHO IS THIS MAN?
This is the LLAP-GOCH MASTER who will reveal to YOU ONLY the
SECRETS of LLAP-GOCH. He is a fully qualified leek coloured belt first
dai master and cares nothing for penal reform.

WHY 'At his own risk'?

BECAUSE if his fellow masters of LLAPGOCH DISCOVER his IDENTITY, they
will PUNISH HIM SEVERELY for revealing the DEADLY secrets he had
promised to keep SECRET, without giving them a piece of the ACTION, and
also BECAUSE of the TERRIBLE risk of PUNISHMENT he runs under the
Trades Description Act.
WHAT is LLAP-GOCH?

IT is THE most DEADLY form OF SECRET self-DEFENCE that HAS ever been
widely advertised and available to EVERYONE.

WHY ALL the CAPITALS?

Because THE most likely kind OF person TO answer THIS sort OF
advertisement HAS less trouble under-STANDING words if they ARE written
in BIG letters. ..."


WTF CARES?

--
Cheers
Nuno Souto
in sunny Sydney, Australia
wi*******@yahoo .com.au.nospam
Nov 12 '05 #185
"DA Morgan" <da******@psoug .org> wrote in message
news:1122533361 .487428@yasure. ..
It is not that DB2 is technically incapable of competing. Rather IBM
is presiding over an aging baby-boom workforce. Speaking only from my
experience in the US ... a large number of colleges and universities,
including mine, have active programs teaching SQL Server and Oracle.
I can not think of a single one teaching DB2.


Speaking from my experience in the UK I find an even wider trend: in the
four years by consultancy has been going we've recruited several graduate
trainees. In 2001 and 2002 you could be pretty sure that most applicants
from university would have a pretty decent grounding in UNIX and/or Linux,
these being the platforms favoured by academia. We'd also find that most
would have done at least one hands-on course or practical assignment with
SQL Server or Oracle.

We didn't recruit in 2003 or 2004 and this year has been a real eye-opener.
Perhaps less than one in five applicants has had *any* practical experience
of a non-Windows OS - if they know about UNIX/Linux at all it's because
they're done a theoeritical course lasting a most a couple of hours. Also,
the level of database theory has dropped too: asked to name a commercial
database system they name Access, which is the "database" that the majority
of them have hands-on experience of. A few had also used SQL (as they call
SQL Server, using the phrases interchangably) . One or two were able to name
a non-MS database product, which was Oracle. None had heard of DB2, Ingres,
Informix etc.

When we probed into the characteristics of a database, and why it might be
more effective for retrieving small sets of data from much larger sets, most
struggled, and although one or two had a grasp of the principle of indexes
(or "keys"), I'm can only remember one correctly identifying, even at a high
level, how an index might help in this regard.

All this change in just 4 years or less. I've no reason to believe that the
academic qualities of applicants is lower than in previous years: indeed we
met some brilliant young people. But I infer from this exercise that UK
academia at least has quickly gone from a bastion of UNIX to not teaching
anything non-MS.
Nov 12 '05 #186


DA Morgan <da******@psoug .org> wrote:

I prefer the term "detritovor es".
Good word ... with your permission I'd like to flatter you through
plagiarism.

Go, with my blessing!
Paul...
--

plinehan __at__ yahoo __dot__ __com__

XP Pro, SP 2,

Oracle, 9.2.0.1.0 (Enterprise Ed.)
Interbase 6.0.1.0;

When asking database related questions, please give other posters
some clues, like operating system, version of db being used and DDL.
The exact text and/or number of error messages is useful (!= "it didn't work!").
Thanks.

Furthermore, as a courtesy to those who spend
time analysing and attempting to help, please
do not top post.
Nov 12 '05 #187
"Neil Truby" <ne********@ard enta.com> wrote in message
news:3l******** *****@individua l.net...
Speaking from my experience in the UK I find an even wider trend: in the
four years by consultancy has been going we've recruited several graduate
trainees. In 2001 and 2002 you could be pretty sure that most applicants
from university would have a pretty decent grounding in UNIX and/or Linux,
these being the platforms favoured by academia. We'd also find that most
would have done at least one hands-on course or practical assignment with
SQL Server or Oracle.

We didn't recruit in 2003 or 2004 and this year has been a real eye-opener. Perhaps less than one in five applicants has had *any* practical experience of a non-Windows OS - if they know about UNIX/Linux at all it's because
they're done a theoeritical course lasting a most a couple of hours. Also, the level of database theory has dropped too: asked to name a commercial
database system they name Access, which is the "database" that the majority of them have hands-on experience of. A few had also used SQL (as they call SQL Server, using the phrases interchangably) . One or two were able to name a non-MS database product, which was Oracle. None had heard of DB2, Ingres, Informix etc.

When we probed into the characteristics of a database, and why it might be
more effective for retrieving small sets of data from much larger sets, most struggled, and although one or two had a grasp of the principle of indexes
(or "keys"), I'm can only remember one correctly identifying, even at a high level, how an index might help in this regard.

All this change in just 4 years or less. I've no reason to believe that the academic qualities of applicants is lower than in previous years: indeed we met some brilliant young people. But I infer from this exercise that UK
academia at least has quickly gone from a bastion of UNIX to not teaching
anything non-MS.


The project I am working on has been developed by UK folks and we are
customizing it for this Canadian customer. I too got a feeling that those
guys are experts only in SQL Server.
Their concept of a RDBMS seems to be weak. For e.g. in SQL Server
one can create a Foreign Key without creating an index. In fact index
creation on the FKY columns is a separate process. Same in Oracle
and DB2. What the UK folks never realized is that almost all the time
a FKY column is joined with PKY column for Query (otherwise why
would it be a separate table). So creating index on the FKY column
should be automatic when creating the FKY constraint.
When I joined the project, one of the first fire I had to fight in the
testing phase was locking. SQL server use to do table scan when it
can't find matching index and that pretty soon escalated into locking
and deadlock problem.
ISOLATION LEVEL - well most of them don't even know what it is,
let alone it is.

I am beginning to wonder whether being a full time DBA is a
dying profession left for old fogies like me.

Nov 12 '05 #188

"Noons" <wi*******@yaho o.com.au> wrote in message
news:42******** *************** @per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au ...
| DA Morgan apparently said,on my timestamp of 31/07/2005 3:32 AM:
|
| replying to both:

[snip]

| Maybe we'll see some management finally biting the bullet and
| cleansweeping the Java crap off the place? Sure, it'll have to
| be washed with liberal applications of marketing bullshit.
| That shouldn't be a problem.

:-)

http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html

Cheers,
Chris Val
Nov 12 '05 #189
Noons wrote:
Data Goob apparently said,on my timestamp of 31/07/2005 10:14 AM:
Most popular web server: Apache
http://www.securityspace.com/s_surve...com/index.html

:) Guess which language apatchy and IIS are written in?
Hint: it's *not* Java.

To bolster the "there-isn't-any-Java" argument:
http://www.securityspace.com/s_surve...6/techpen.html

welll...... the argument is not that. The argument is:
"Java is NOWHERE near as widespread as it is hyped to be"
And I wasn't talking about the client-side.

But I guess in the client-side, it's even less so. :)


I know many many places where Java exists but unless you are an
insider you'd never know. One example ... the American Idol TV
show.

Java handles the connection to the phone network
insrting the votes
counting the votes
responding to the voters that their vote has been counted

BTW: The database: Oracle RAC.

Java, in many cases is being used not with the web but as a
replacement for what has traditionally been done with C/C+.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
http://www.psoug.org
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
Nov 12 '05 #190

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