375  18131 
> You seem to be talking about DB2 for Linux, UNIX, and Windows (LUW) and
DB2 for z/OS as if they are one product and confusing the entire issue we
are discussing.
Secondly, DB2 on both the mainframe and LUW is far easier to learn and
administer than Oracle, at least for now. As Oracle gets easier to use,
the number of people required to administer it (DBA's) will decrease.
I have been working with both Oracle and DB2. I don't find DB2 to be any
easier to learn than Oracle, especially DB2 on z.
> I don't find DB2 to be any easier to learn than Oracle
There are corners of the product that can be a little more complex -
perhaps locking sometimes, plans and static sql if you decide to use
it. On the flip side there are areas that are much easier. The
glaring one is backup & restore, that's a critical activity that's a
piece of cake compared to oracle.
Over the last year two folks on my team received their db2
certification. Shockingly, they weren't in the 50s, these guys are in
the mid-twenties. We worked together every thursday at lunch, went
through the cert book, and both passed easily. These guys learned
easily, on the job, with *zero* formal training. One of them is now
the development and production dba for a very large data warehouse and
set of marts. Knows the hardware, os, database configuration and
tunings, optimizes the user's sql, designs new tables, create the etl
as well as aggregation code, etc. Prior to twelve months ago he had
never seen a database beyond submission of sql, now we're partnering on
taking this real-time warehouse to high-availability. Oh yeah, and he
also supported a critical oltp database as well.
In my opinion db2 is pretty easy to learn - it would have been far more
difficult to get these guys to the same point in Oracle.
On the flip side, SQL Server, MySQL, and Postgresql would have been
even easier than DB2 - but then again their scalability limitations
(parallelism/partitioning/optimizer/etc) would have pushed so much
extra complexity into the design it probably would have been tougher
after all.
Mark A wrote: Peoplesoft is already superior to Oracle HR, but Oracle is pushing their HR
package over Peoplesoft.
That is not what is happening in Redwood Shores but thanks for your
opinion. I will give it all the consideration it is worth.
There are more and more Informix compatibility syntax commands in the DB2
products, as documented in the manuals.
Leading to the eventual demise of one of the two products eh.
--
Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
Mark A wrote: You seem to be talking about DB2 for Linux, UNIX, and Windows (LUW) and DB2
for z/OS as if they are one product and confusing the entire issue we are
discussing.
So now they are separate products?
Either way ... I don't recall making a single reference to Linux, UNIX,
or Windows. Perhaps my reference to COBOL, CICS, MVS JCL, OS/390, z/OS,
TSO, VSAM, IMS, REXX, ISPF, and CLISTS confused you.
z/OS runs on Windows now? Didn't realize how far out of the loop I was. ;-)
--
Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
Darin McBride wrote: DA Morgan wrote:
Data Goob wrote:
Even if your statements are correct ( following the trend here :-) DB2
scales better than Oracle, or SQL-Server.
And looking at Microsoft as the poster-child for this discussion lets
agree that superior technology has never one the day over superior
marketing. Ask the fine people who developed Fox how they feel about
MS Access. Or the fine people who developed OS/2 about Windows. Or
even your new friends at Informix how they feel about DB2. ;-)
I'm betting the Informix developers like DB2 way more now than they
did, say, a few years ago. ;-)
I'll let them speak for themselves.
--
Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
Buck Nuggets wrote: I don't find DB2 to be any easier to learn than Oracle
There are corners of the product that can be a little more complex -
perhaps locking sometimes, plans and static sql if you decide to use
it. On the flip side there are areas that are much easier. The
glaring one is backup & restore, that's a critical activity that's a
piece of cake compared to oracle.
In Oracle back-up takes two mouse clicks ... how complex is that?
Better take a look at 9i and 10g RMAN and the easy setup using OEM and
the Grid Control. I think your experience with Oracle is dated.
--
Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
Buck Nuggets wrote: - stating that you actually like db2 and then complaining about ibm's
marketing is bizarre.
Why? I like Oracle but I think their marketing nearly non-existant and
openly criticize it in almost every public speaking engagement.
I didn't take a loyalty oath and neither did anyone else here unless
they are a paid employee or shill for a software developer or reseller.
We should all feel free to applaud the best and condemn the worst.
Perhaps go to some islamic/hindi/budhist group and tell them that
their god is irrelevant because you found more 10x as many books on
christianity as their religion?
Software is a tool ... not a religion. I'd suggest some a scotch and
some perspective if you can truly equate the two in your mind.
--
Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace x with u to respond)
DA Morgan wrote: Software is a tool ... not a religion. I'd suggest some a scotch
and some perspective if you can truly equate the two in your
mind.
lol, well if your hundreds of trolls and flames on
comp.databases. ibm-db2 aren't due to dogma, then what's your excuse?
shilling? some deep-seated insecurity? seriously, why do you spend
all of your time this way?
DA Morgan wrote: In Oracle back-up takes two mouse clicks ... how complex is that?
Better take a look at 9i and 10g RMAN and the easy setup using OEM and
the Grid Control. I think your experience with Oracle is dated.
Yep, it's a year old. Last year I was supporting a mission-critical
300 gbyte oracle 9i database running over 100,000 transactions a day.
Personally, I'd like to be prepared for something besides a 'best-case
recovery scenario'. Two mouse-clicks? Please, save that for kids in
database 101 who don't know any better.
buck
Serge Rielau wrote: Superboer wrote:
This is a funny way of looking at. Obviously Oracle's none locking
engine is perfectly suited to scaling multi user applications,
particularly when most people are developing for stateless clients.
ahum does the above explain why informix was faster on a 5 times
smaller machine then obstacle...????
Superboer.
Changed the subject lines and following up on what Knut started.
How does Oracles snapshot isolation help with stateless clients.
To the best of my knowledge snapshot semantics only operate on either a
statement or a transaction level. In a stateless scenario I'd assume
that teh application transaction covers at least two database
transactions. A read phase wher the resultset is displayed at the client
and a separate write phase where the modified data is written back.
How does snapshot isolation help here?
Informix supports versioning columns which can be used by the app to
prevent overwriting other users changes across DB transaction boundaries.
MS SQL server has a somewhat similar approach and even buried optimistic
locking into the cursor logic (not applicable in a stateless enviroment
(no cursor open).
I see tha value of snapshot isolation for certain purposes. I don't see
it for a 3 tier web application....
well. may be not. i went back to Weikum/Vossen, chapter 5. sounds like
an approach. and a google for +multiversion +concurrency +"3 tier"
came up with this. kind of funny, really.
http://sapdb.2scale.net/moin.cgi/Fea...hanceProposals
BTDBB
Thoughts?
Cheers
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