If you had asked me 5 years ago about the future of C++, I would have
told you that its future was assured for many years to come. Recently,
I have been starting to wonder.
I have been teaching C++ at a local polytechnical school here in
Vancouver, Canada for approximately 8 years. Six years ago, at the
height (or should I say volume?) of the internet bubble, I had 80+
students per semester in my C++ course. Now I am fortunate to have 15
students per semester. What has changed? I believe that students are
no longer interested in learning C++. They would rather learn .NET
languages or Java (my colleages who teach these courses seem to be very
busy!). I believe it is because these other languages are easier to
learn and/or are perceived to be more relevant today.
I do believe that C++ is more difficult to learn than many of these
other languages. Despite my best efforts to make them exciting, I see
the eyes of my students start to glaze over when I start explaining
pointers. When I ask them to tokenize an english sentence (using the
strtok() function) and print the token in reverse order (they need to
declare an array of type char * and save the addresses of the tokens in
this array), I experience near panic from many of my students. But
these concepts need to be taught in a responsible C++ course. As was
pointed out to me recently, Microsoft still requires applicants to
demonstrate a very good knowledge of string manipulation using C-style
strings (none of these fancy string class objects!) when recruiting C++
programmers.
The ironic part is there is still a large demand for C++ developers
here in Vancouver. In fact, the company that I believe employs the
most developers here in Vancouver, employs almost entirely C++
programmers. This company, Electronic Arts (if you have not heard of
them, I guarantee that your kids have -- they create video games) is
only one of several gaming companies here in Vancouver that employ
primarily C++ programmers. Other companies like Kodak, MDSA, Nokia,
MDSI, etc. also employ large numbers of C++ programmers. Not
surprisingly, I have talked to several companies here in Vancouver who
are complaining that they are having difficulty finding C++ developers
and are looking at trying to recruit from abroad (eastern Europe
primarily).
I believe that many of these companies will be forced to migrate away
from C++ in the near future, simply because they will not be able to
find C++ programmers in the future. Soon the baby boomer C++
programmers will begin to retire, then the proverbial @@@@ will really
start to hit the fan!
Please tell me I am wrong, and paint me a view of the future which
includes C++.
Nov 18 '06
190  8184 
"Greg" <gr****@pacbell .netwrote in message
news:11******** *************@n 67g2000cwd.goog legroups.com...
Frederick Gotham wrote:
Doesn't the complexity of C++ really work to the economic
benefit of professional C++ programmers?
And don't forget the tool builders!
Tony
"Greg" <gr****@pacbell .netwrote in message
news:11******** *************@n 67g2000cwd.goog legroups.com...
Frederick Gotham wrote:
Like a program written in a managed language versus one written in C++,
"managed language"?? You've been watching too much TV! LOL,
"managed language". Even the chosen MS terminology is repulsive.
Using a word that to programmers means "repressed" , is pretty stupid
marketing, don't ya think?
Tony
"Greg" <gr****@pacbell .netwrote in message
news:11******** *************@n 67g2000cwd.goog legroups.com...
Frederick Gotham wrote:
Neither approach is necessarily "wrong" and in fact both make sense in
their own way. A C++ programmer does not need a simpler language in
order to program, just as someone who can drive a manual transmission
does not need an automatic transmission in order to drive. So both the
C++ programmer and the skilled driver are likely to prefer to have a
faster program (or a faster car). Whereas everyone else - those who
lack the skills to program in C++ or to drive with a stick shift -
would prefer that technological advances be used to produce a
programming language they could program in - or car they could actually
drive.
_I_ think you have used analogy (or euphemism?) in the wrong way. The
only time using such is good is if someone isn't understanding what you
said and you give "a kinda like". But to go deeper into the parallels, which
almost never relate, is perilous.
So, I'd say, if you want talk cars, talk cars. If you wanna talk programming
languages talk those. There is no need to talk around every element via
remote abstraction (and it's even "incorrect" to do so in that is doesn't
help anything).
Tony
(The other time when analogy is wrong is in counter to a preceding analogy
which of course is just USENET analogy war material and has nothing to
do with the original point at all (read: it's a pissing contest!)).
Tony wrote:
>Like a program written in a managed language versus one written in C++,
"managed language"?? You've been watching too much TV! LOL,
"managed language". Even the chosen MS terminology is repulsive.
Using a word that to programmers means "repressed" , is pretty stupid
marketing, don't ya think?
Absolutely. Programmers should be free to write whatever they feel like, and
mantain their own servers, without people around them telling them what to
write and keeping their servers up for them.
--
Phlip http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
"kwikius" <an**@servocomm .freeserve.co.u kwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ l39g2000cwd.goo glegroups.com.. .
>
Greg wrote:
>Moreover, isn't it possible that the complexity is self-perpetuating -
that it is in no one's interest for C++ to be any less complicated than
it is?
I'm sure you don't mean nobodies interest. It is certainly in the
interest of newcomers trying to get to grips with the language.
If I was an instructor at a university, I would NOT put templates into a
first semester class. That's an advanced and additional paradigm and
requires choice to "buy into" IMO. I view C++ as a smorgasbord: I'll
eat what I want and like (no sushi for me!).
Actually, even before C++, it would probably be better to take a
general studies course on programming paradigms! Then students can
take C++ as an course tailored to their needs. (No, that won't work,
cuz students by definition can't make that choice). Oh well, something
like that then.
Tony
(Templates are KINDA like sushi, for me)
"kwikius" <an**@servocomm .freeserve.co.u kwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ l39g2000cwd.goo glegroups.com.. .
you can also argue that in fact this is just yet another layer of
complexity, and so the only way to make the language simpler is to
write another language, extracting the 'useful' parts of C++.. hence
Java and C#.
No. No need to extract. Just use what you need, ignore the rest. The other
facilities are there if/when you need/want them. No need to throw the
baby out with the bath water (or whatever the appropriate cliche is...
hey, isn't English HARD?!).
Tony
"kwikius" <an**@servocomm .freeserve.co.u kwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ l39g2000cwd.goo glegroups.com.. .
At the language level, there is only one way for C++ to go and that is
to become even more complicated as you can't remove features of course.
But C++ doesn't force you to use those things. The only time you'd be
concerned with the complexity of the entire body of C++ is if you wanted to
produce a conforming implementation (compiler).
Tony
"kwikius" <an**@servocomm .freeserve.co.u kwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ l39g2000cwd.goo glegroups.com.. .
A big problem is the libraries. There are often questions on
comp.lang.c++ regarding Graphics and a GUI on the one hand and also
vehement responses on the other that C++ doesnt need a standard GUI or
graphics libraries There seems to be powerful interests at work. It is
surely in some peoples interests that C++ does become ever more
complicated with out any actual usability features (e.g libraries for
common tasks) and more and more newcomers will simply stick with Java
and C# and so on, where they can get the libraies off the nearest
shelf.
Someone else please chime in on the availability of C++ libraries. There is
a lot of them available. I think what you are saying is that you don't want
to shop/evaluate/choose from a number of them (?).
Tony
"kwikius" <an**@servocomm .freeserve.co.u kwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ l39g2000cwd.goo glegroups.com.. .
There is no money behind C++ except from companies and maybe many of
their interests lie elsewhere.
Whatever that means.
Its the lack of good libraies that will kill C++ AFAICS.
Example please. What area is missing "good libraries" and what would,
for you, make it a "good" library? (Perhaps FREE?)
And BTW. I am putting my time where my mouth is and currently working
on a C++ GUI library to fill the gap. I'm not making any code public as
babykilling is too simple of a pastime.
regards
Andy Little
I know that name. The Minix newsgroup?
Tony
"kwikius" <an**@servocomm .freeserve.co.u kwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ l39g2000cwd.goo glegroups.com.. .
Every programming language has a prime life time and every programming
language is eventaully superceded. C++ is no exception to the rule. C++
did it to C after all.
That's conjecture. In a previous post, I said that I'm as like to switch
from
C++ as I am from English!
Tony
(Or maybe not EVEN conjecture: facetiousness/pessimistic optimism/or...
the dreaded "manager making decisions on shallow/one-point data! Try
trend analysis instead, it may serve you better.) This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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