C programming Newbee

[Kanthi Kiran Narisetti]

Hi ALL,

I am new to C and programming . I need suggestions for the IDE to be
used as a begginer and should I start on Windows or Linux ??

I am also looking for resources for C programming on Internet with
examples on each concept.

I appreciate if any one can help me in this regard.

Kanthi Kiran.

[Joona I Palaste]

no*@given.out scribbled the following:

(note: Don't confuse C with C++ ... C++ is a superset of C that uses more
complex (read: "confusing" ) programming concepts; something you probably
shouldn't tackle until you are comfortable in C first.)

Sorry, but C++ was never a superset of C. They are two separate
languages sharing a common, quite large, subset. But there are some C
features that don't work in C++.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pa*****@cc.hel sinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-------------------------------------------------------- rules! --------/
"Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schitzophrenic and so am I."
- Bob Wiley

[Malcolm]

"Kanthi Kiran Narisetti" <Te********@gma il.com> wrote

I am new to C and programming . I need suggestions for the IDE to be
used as a begginer and should I start on Windows or Linux ??
You won't normally have a choice which OS to program under. If the company
decides that the target market is Windows users, then its no use saying that
you prefer Linux. So you've got to be prepared to use whatever you have.

Having said that, as a total newbie you will be writing command-line
programs and it doesn't really matter what you run under. However fairly
soon most people want a bit of graphical output. This isn't easy, since both
Windows and X-Windows are pretty unfriendly.
A lot of people want the functions
Window * openwindow(int width, int height)
closewindow(Win dow *win)
drawpixel(Windo w *win, int x, int y, unsigned char r, unsigned char g,
unsigned char b)

and pretty much just that. However implementing these functions on either
Windows or Linux is a pain, for various reasons.

[Malcolm]

"Erik de Castro Lopo" <no****@mega-nerd.com> wrote

If you eventually want to switch to Perl, why learn C first?
Quite honestly, it doesn't make all that much sense to learn
C as a first programming language.

I disagree here. It's a bit like saying "you want to be a doctor, so why
bother with physics, maths, chemistry and biology first?".

C is a low-level language, and Perl interpreters, for instance, are written
in C. So if you want to understand your tools it's a good idea to start with
a little assembler, then go onto C, and finally try higher-level languages,
which admittedly are often better than C for specific purposes.

[Mark F. Haigh]

Malcolm wrote:

"Erik de Castro Lopo" <no****@mega-nerd.com> wrote

If you eventually want to switch to Perl, why learn C first?
Quite honestly, it doesn't make all that much sense to learn
C as a first programming language.
I disagree here. It's a bit like saying "you want to be a doctor, so

why bother with physics, maths, chemistry and biology first?".
Being fluent in Perl and the Unix environment is akin to being an EMT
(emergency medical technician), but with no knowledge of math or
physics.

Like it or not, you don't want a mathematician, physicist, chemist, or
biologist when you're having a heart attack. You want an EMT. Someone
who can get the job done.

For the job of Unix system administration, knowledge of Perl and Unix
tools are akin to being an EMT. If you want to become a brain surgeon
(kernel / tools hacking), learn C. But you can learn brain surgery
later. And also note that being a brain surgeon without knowing how to
be an EMT sounds silly, now doesn't it?

C is a low-level language, and Perl interpreters, for instance, are written in C. So if you want to understand your tools
<snip>

If you want to understand your tools, then work at trying to understand
your tools. C can help you understand the implementation details of
your tools, but implementation details change more often than the tools
themselves.

it's a good idea to start with
a little assembler, then go onto C, and finally try higher-level languages, which admittedly are often better than C for specific purposes.

A programmer with several notches in his belt can pick up an assembly
language book and understand it. Give the same book to a green
programmer and you have more questions than answers. For most people,
assembly is not necessary. For many people, C is not necessary.
Mark F. Haigh

[Kanthi Kiran Narisetti]

Malcolm wrote:

"Erik de Castro Lopo" <no****@mega-nerd.com> wrote

If you eventually want to switch to Perl, why learn C first?
Quite honestly, it doesn't make all that much sense to learn
C as a first programming language.
I disagree here. It's a bit like saying "you want to be a doctor, so

why bother with physics, maths, chemistry and biology first?".

C is a low-level language, and Perl interpreters, for instance, are written in C. So if you want to understand your tools it's a good idea to start with a little assembler, then go onto C, and finally try higher-level languages, which admittedly are often better than C for specific purposes.

Hi Eric & Malcom,

Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(L inux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python . First I want to learn the concepts of programming than
learning a specific language, then I would prefer working on
specialisation or Perfection in Higher Languages.

Thank You.
Kanthi

[Michael Mair]

Malcolm wrote:

"Kanthi Kiran Narisetti" <Te********@gma il.com> wrote

I am new to C and programming . I need suggestions for the IDE to be
used as a begginer and should I start on Windows or Linux ??

You won't normally have a choice which OS to program under. If the company
decides that the target market is Windows users, then its no use saying that
you prefer Linux. So you've got to be prepared to use whatever you have.

Having said that, as a total newbie you will be writing command-line
programs and it doesn't really matter what you run under. However fairly
soon most people want a bit of graphical output. This isn't easy, since both
Windows and X-Windows are pretty unfriendly.
A lot of people want the functions
Window * openwindow(int width, int height)
closewindow(Win dow *win)
drawpixel(Windo w *win, int x, int y, unsigned char r, unsigned char g,
unsigned char b)

and pretty much just that. However implementing these functions on either
Windows or Linux is a pain, for various reasons.

Yeah, makes one miss the good old Amiga :-)
Cheers
Michael
--
E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.

[Michael Mair]

Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:

Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(L inux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python . First I want to learn the concepts of programming than
learning a specific language, then I would prefer working on
specialisation or Perfection in Higher Languages.

The thing is that programming is a craft (even though you can make
an art or science of it but that's the same with every craft).
Learning a craft needs much and regular exercise.
If you learn with a programming language you can use in your daily
work and if you actually use it as soon as you can then you have
a better chance of getting the necessary exercise than if you only
play around a couple of hours per week far from real applications.

That said and even though I know that many people think differently,
I can recommend C as a first language. If you value conceptual
clarity, then it is certainly in some sense better for you than
perl where people without previous experiences in other languages
are somewhat challenged to find a clean and consistent programming
style. I have never had a real look at Python but have heard that
it is in this respect better than perl, so it may well be a good
choice as a starting language.
perl and Python both certainly enable you to get things done in your
job earlier, so that you get motivated earlier by some sort of
"return of investment".
Before the perl lovers beat me up as perl ranks last as a good
beginners' language in this comparison: In perl, you can pick up
many bad habits and get away with it. It is hard to unlearn these
habits later. C is much less forgiving which is IMO a good thing.
Nonetheless, if I want to Get Things Done, perl is often my first
choice.

As for learning C: I recommend the K&R2 book and, as soon as you
feel confident to tackle real world problems (after some months),
"C Unleashed".
After that proceed with whatever tutorials and books you want to
or have to read.
Cheers
Michael
--
E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.

[Mark F. Haigh]

Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:

<snip>

Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(L inux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python . First I want to learn the concepts of programming than
learning a specific language, then I would prefer working on
specialisation or Perfection in Higher Languages.

[OT]

If you were a CS student, I'd say learn Python. But since you want to
be a Unix sysadmin, learn Perl. Perl's syntax and heritage is very
Unixy, very loose, integrates well with the most popular web server on
Earth, and directly inherits from C, sh, and awk. Python is stricter,
more of an OOP breed, and more isolated, linguistically speaking.

Back on topic: it doesn't matter. Pick Perl or Python. C is probably
not what you want. Again, feel free to ignore my advice and learn C
anyways, it's a great language and my personal favorite. But do
understand that as a newbie, it's probably going to take you at least
several painful years before you get up to speed.
Mark F. Haigh
mf*****@sbcglob al.net

[Michael Mair]

Mark F. Haigh wrote:

Kanthi Kiran Narisetti wrote:

<snip>

Can you clarify me as Systems Administrator(L inux & WIndows) which
would be the best choice for begginers programming language C or Perl
or Python . First I want to learn the concepts of programming than
learning a specific language, then I would prefer working on
specialisatio n or Perfection in Higher Languages.

[OT]

If you were a CS student, I'd say learn Python. But since you want to
be a Unix sysadmin, learn Perl. Perl's syntax and heritage is very
Unixy, very loose, integrates well with the most popular web server on
Earth, and directly inherits from C, sh, and awk. Python is stricter,
more of an OOP breed, and more isolated, linguistically speaking.

Back on topic: it doesn't matter. Pick Perl or Python. C is probably
not what you want. Again, feel free to ignore my advice and learn C
anyways, it's a great language and my personal favorite. But do
understand that as a newbie, it's probably going to take you at least
several painful years before you get up to speed.

Good analysis, even though I am biased much more towards C as a first
language -- but I guess that is no crime around here... :-)

Cheers
Michael
--
E-Mail: Mine is an /at/ gmx /dot/ de address.

[Mark F. Haigh]

Michael Mair wrote:

<large snip>

Good analysis, even though I am biased much more towards C as a first
language -- but I guess that is no crime around here... :-)

I'd be willing to bet that most people claiming C was their first
language were programming *something* (A BASIC variant, batch files, TI
calculators, shell scripts, spreadsheets, whatever) beforehand. To
people like that, those "don't count". On the contrary, I maintain
that they do count. Heavily.

If a person can be dissuaded from learning C, the person probably
shouldn't be learning it anyways. On the other hand, if a person has a
burning need to learn C and it's their first language, then I certainly
sympathize and try to help when I can.
Mark F. Haigh
mf*****@sbcglob al.net