We're looking at running a memory-intensive process for a web site as a
Windows service in isolation of IIS because IIS refuses to consume all of
the available physical RAM. Considering remoting to move data in and out of
this process. Need something that's quick and dirty and easy to implement,
but that's performant and secure at the same time. Any suggestions /
tutorials? Would prefer not to go on the TCP/IP stack (socket) as it is not
very performant, but it certainly is quick and dirty and we might go with it
anyway anyway unless there is another way with shared memory that is as easy
and more performant.
Jon 28 4937
Jon,
I think that you might want to consider shared memory in this case,
assuming you want to be on the same machine as IIS (although, I have to
question why you would want to starve that machine, and not dedicate another
machine to performing this task, as you run the risk of starving IIS of
resources).
Are you passing massive amounts of data between the processes? If so, I
can't say remoting is a good solution. With remoting, you can marshal
objects by reference, or by value. When passing your massive data buffer
across the app domain boundary, if you pass this by value, you are going to
incur a huge cost in passing that buffer across the app domain boundary.
If your buffer has an affinity to the app domain it is in (derives from
MarshalByRefObj ect) then you can make calls into the object from the remote
process, but depending on how many calls you have to make to get managable
chunks of data, this might be too expensive as well.
I think that a better solution would be to have a separate machine which
is dedicated to this task, and then sending off the data buffers (or chunks
of them) to the machine to be processed. You can use MSMQ for this, or
maybe even a file drop, in which case, you have something like BizTalk pick
up the file drop. You could use WCF as well, as there is support for large
message sizes (although there is a message buffer limit there as well which
you have to tweak if the buffer is exceptionally large).
Which comes back to shared memory. If you are determined to stay on the
same machine, then you can have the IIS process write to shared memory, then
signal the service to look at a particular block of shared memory to
process. Of course, you will have to write all the coordination routines
yourself (which is going to be a pain as well).
Hope this helps.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message
news:ea******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP06.phx.gbl...
We're looking at running a memory-intensive process for a web site as a
Windows service in isolation of IIS because IIS refuses to consume all of
the available physical RAM. Considering remoting to move data in and out
of this process. Need something that's quick and dirty and easy to
implement, but that's performant and secure at the same time. Any
suggestions / tutorials? Would prefer not to go on the TCP/IP stack
(socket) as it is not very performant, but it certainly is quick and dirty
and we might go with it anyway anyway unless there is another way with
shared memory that is as easy and more performant.
Jon
The memory load could be in the range of 1GB, basically hosting indexes
in-memory for fast access to search thousands of large pieces of data. The
server has 4GB, but IIS never uses more than 1GB, which leaves us 3GB
unused, and also makes IIS vulnerable to running out of RAM if we were to
fill up its tiny 1GB rather than isolate the process.
Would love to offload to another server, but the problem there becomes the
bottleneck of 1gb/s network bandwidth which is more reserved for the other
users who are doing heavy SQL Server queries (and SQL Server is not nearly
as performant for what we are indexing, difference is like 10ms vs. 500ms).
We also then deal with TCP/IP packet encapsulation which is a huge
performance hit.
Shared memory is of course ideal. Problem is I asked about shared memory in
the .NET world a year or two ago and was told it's not possible in the C#
world, you have to use remoting. Or, use C++ (and native APIs) which I am
not privvy to, although if someone can point me to P/Invoke API tutorials
that are relevant to shared memory with C#/.NET I'd be curious.
Jon
"Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mv*@spam.guard .caspershouse.c omwrote in
message news:ua******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP05.phx.gbl...
Jon,
I think that you might want to consider shared memory in this case,
assuming you want to be on the same machine as IIS (although, I have to
question why you would want to starve that machine, and not dedicate
another machine to performing this task, as you run the risk of starving
IIS of resources).
Are you passing massive amounts of data between the processes? If so,
I can't say remoting is a good solution. With remoting, you can marshal
objects by reference, or by value. When passing your massive data buffer
across the app domain boundary, if you pass this by value, you are going
to incur a huge cost in passing that buffer across the app domain
boundary.
If your buffer has an affinity to the app domain it is in (derives from
MarshalByRefObj ect) then you can make calls into the object from the
remote process, but depending on how many calls you have to make to get
managable chunks of data, this might be too expensive as well.
I think that a better solution would be to have a separate machine
which is dedicated to this task, and then sending off the data buffers (or
chunks of them) to the machine to be processed. You can use MSMQ for
this, or maybe even a file drop, in which case, you have something like
BizTalk pick up the file drop. You could use WCF as well, as there is
support for large message sizes (although there is a message buffer limit
there as well which you have to tweak if the buffer is exceptionally
large).
Which comes back to shared memory. If you are determined to stay on
the same machine, then you can have the IIS process write to shared
memory, then signal the service to look at a particular block of shared
memory to process. Of course, you will have to write all the coordination
routines yourself (which is going to be a pain as well).
Hope this helps.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message
news:ea******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP06.phx.gbl...
>We're looking at running a memory-intensive process for a web site as a Windows service in isolation of IIS because IIS refuses to consume all of the available physical RAM. Considering remoting to move data in and out of this process. Need something that's quick and dirty and easy to implement, but that's performant and secure at the same time. Any suggestions / tutorials? Would prefer not to go on the TCP/IP stack (socket) as it is not very performant, but it certainly is quick and dirty and we might go with it anyway anyway unless there is another way with shared memory that is as easy and more performant.
Jon
Jon,
I think that shared memory is very viable. You will have to code it
yourself though, and use a fair amount of P/Invoke. First, I recommend
reading the section of the MSDN documentation titled "Managing Memory-Mapped
Files in Win32", located at: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms810613.aspx
For working with MMFs in .NET, I would recommend creating a class that
derives from Stream which would allow you to work with the MMF. Basically,
you would have the file that you are using as the MMF, and then you would
call the MapViewOfFileEx API function and get the pointer at which you can
start writing. You can then take whereever the user wants to read from
/write to the stream and then offset that value by the pointer returned from
MapViewOfFileEx to find the memory location to read from/write to.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message
news:u0******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...
The memory load could be in the range of 1GB, basically hosting indexes
in-memory for fast access to search thousands of large pieces of data. The
server has 4GB, but IIS never uses more than 1GB, which leaves us 3GB
unused, and also makes IIS vulnerable to running out of RAM if we were to
fill up its tiny 1GB rather than isolate the process.
Would love to offload to another server, but the problem there becomes the
bottleneck of 1gb/s network bandwidth which is more reserved for the other
users who are doing heavy SQL Server queries (and SQL Server is not nearly
as performant for what we are indexing, difference is like 10ms vs.
500ms). We also then deal with TCP/IP packet encapsulation which is a huge
performance hit.
Shared memory is of course ideal. Problem is I asked about shared memory
in the .NET world a year or two ago and was told it's not possible in the
C# world, you have to use remoting. Or, use C++ (and native APIs) which I
am not privvy to, although if someone can point me to P/Invoke API
tutorials that are relevant to shared memory with C#/.NET I'd be curious.
Jon
"Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mv*@spam.guard .caspershouse.c omwrote
in message news:ua******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP05.phx.gbl...
>Jon,
I think that you might want to consider shared memory in this case, assuming you want to be on the same machine as IIS (although, I have to question why you would want to starve that machine, and not dedicate another machine to performing this task, as you run the risk of starving IIS of resources).
Are you passing massive amounts of data between the processes? If so, I can't say remoting is a good solution. With remoting, you can marshal objects by reference, or by value. When passing your massive data buffer across the app domain boundary, if you pass this by value, you are going to incur a huge cost in passing that buffer across the app domain boundary.
If your buffer has an affinity to the app domain it is in (derives from MarshalByRefObj ect) then you can make calls into the object from the remote process, but depending on how many calls you have to make to get managable chunks of data, this might be too expensive as well.
I think that a better solution would be to have a separate machine which is dedicated to this task, and then sending off the data buffers (or chunks of them) to the machine to be processed. You can use MSMQ for this, or maybe even a file drop, in which case, you have something like BizTalk pick up the file drop. You could use WCF as well, as there is support for large message sizes (although there is a message buffer limit there as well which you have to tweak if the buffer is exceptionally large).
Which comes back to shared memory. If you are determined to stay on the same machine, then you can have the IIS process write to shared memory, then signal the service to look at a particular block of shared memory to process. Of course, you will have to write all the coordination routines yourself (which is going to be a pain as well).
Hope this helps.
-- - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message news:ea******* *******@TK2MSFT NGP06.phx.gbl.. .
>>We're looking at running a memory-intensive process for a web site as a Windows service in isolation of IIS because IIS refuses to consume all of the available physical RAM. Considering remoting to move data in and out of this process. Need something that's quick and dirty and easy to implement, but that's performant and secure at the same time. Any suggestions / tutorials? Would prefer not to go on the TCP/IP stack (socket) as it is not very performant, but it certainly is quick and dirty and we might go with it anyway anyway unless there is another way with shared memory that is as easy and more performant.
Jon
I forgot to mention that you will have to send signals, through
remoting, or some other technology, to tell the other process that is
sharing the memory mapped file with you when to process, when it's done,
etc, etc.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mv*@spam.guard .caspershouse.c omwrote in
message news:u4******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP03.phx.gbl. ..
Jon,
I think that shared memory is very viable. You will have to code it
yourself though, and use a fair amount of P/Invoke. First, I recommend
reading the section of the MSDN documentation titled "Managing
Memory-Mapped Files in Win32", located at:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms810613.aspx
For working with MMFs in .NET, I would recommend creating a class that
derives from Stream which would allow you to work with the MMF.
Basically, you would have the file that you are using as the MMF, and then
you would call the MapViewOfFileEx API function and get the pointer at
which you can start writing. You can then take whereever the user wants
to read from /write to the stream and then offset that value by the
pointer returned from MapViewOfFileEx to find the memory location to read
from/write to.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message
news:u0******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...
>The memory load could be in the range of 1GB, basically hosting indexes in-memory for fast access to search thousands of large pieces of data. The server has 4GB, but IIS never uses more than 1GB, which leaves us 3GB unused, and also makes IIS vulnerable to running out of RAM if we were to fill up its tiny 1GB rather than isolate the process.
Would love to offload to another server, but the problem there becomes the bottleneck of 1gb/s network bandwidth which is more reserved for the other users who are doing heavy SQL Server queries (and SQL Server is not nearly as performant for what we are indexing, difference is like 10ms vs. 500ms). We also then deal with TCP/IP packet encapsulation which is a huge performance hit.
Shared memory is of course ideal. Problem is I asked about shared memory in the .NET world a year or two ago and was told it's not possible in the C# world, you have to use remoting. Or, use C++ (and native APIs) which I am not privvy to, although if someone can point me to P/Invoke API tutorials that are relevant to shared memory with C#/.NET I'd be curious.
Jon
"Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mv*@spam.guard .caspershouse.c omwrote in message news:ua******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP05.phx.gbl...
>>Jon,
I think that you might want to consider shared memory in this case, assuming you want to be on the same machine as IIS (although, I have to question why you would want to starve that machine, and not dedicate another machine to performing this task, as you run the risk of starving IIS of resources).
Are you passing massive amounts of data between the processes? If so, I can't say remoting is a good solution. With remoting, you can marshal objects by reference, or by value. When passing your massive data buffer across the app domain boundary, if you pass this by value, you are going to incur a huge cost in passing that buffer across the app domain boundary.
If your buffer has an affinity to the app domain it is in (derives from MarshalByRefObj ect) then you can make calls into the object from the remote process, but depending on how many calls you have to make to get managable chunks of data, this might be too expensive as well.
I think that a better solution would be to have a separate machine which is dedicated to this task, and then sending off the data buffers (or chunks of them) to the machine to be processed. You can use MSMQ for this, or maybe even a file drop, in which case, you have something like BizTalk pick up the file drop. You could use WCF as well, as there is support for large message sizes (although there is a message buffer limit there as well which you have to tweak if the buffer is exceptional ly large).
Which comes back to shared memory. If you are determined to stay on the same machine, then you can have the IIS process write to shared memory, then signal the service to look at a particular block of shared memory to process. Of course, you will have to write all the coordinatio n routines yourself (which is going to be a pain as well).
Hope this helps.
-- - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message news:ea****** ********@TK2MSF TNGP06.phx.gbl. .. We're looking at running a memory-intensive process for a web site as a Windows service in isolation of IIS because IIS refuses to consume all of the available physical RAM. Considering remoting to move data in and out of this process. Need something that's quick and dirty and easy to implement, but that's performant and secure at the same time. Any suggestion s / tutorials? Would prefer not to go on the TCP/IP stack (socket) as it is not very performant, but it certainly is quick and dirty and we might go with it anyway anyway unless there is another way with shared memory that is as easy and more performant.
Jon
Hello!
You wrote on Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:32:44 -0700:
JDShared memory is of course ideal. Problem is I asked about shared
JDmemory in the .NET world a year or two ago and was told it's not
JDpossible in the C# world, you have to use remoting. Or, use C++ (and
JDnative APIs) which I am not privvy to, although if someone can point me
JDto P/Invoke API tutorials that are relevant to shared memory with
JDC#/.NET I'd be curious.
Check MsgConnect ( http://www.msgconnect.com ), it seems to fit your
requirements.
With best regards,
Eugene Mayevski http://www.SecureBlackbox.com - the comprehensive component suite for
network security
What about System.Runtime. Remoting.Channe ls.Ipc (Named Pipes implementation
for .NET 2.0) .. is MMF easier or faster than Ipc?
Jon
"Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mv*@spam.guard .caspershouse.c omwrote in
message news:u4******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP03.phx.gbl. ..
Jon,
I think that shared memory is very viable. You will have to code it
yourself though, and use a fair amount of P/Invoke. First, I recommend
reading the section of the MSDN documentation titled "Managing
Memory-Mapped Files in Win32", located at:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms810613.aspx
For working with MMFs in .NET, I would recommend creating a class that
derives from Stream which would allow you to work with the MMF.
Basically, you would have the file that you are using as the MMF, and then
you would call the MapViewOfFileEx API function and get the pointer at
which you can start writing. You can then take whereever the user wants
to read from /write to the stream and then offset that value by the
pointer returned from MapViewOfFileEx to find the memory location to read
from/write to.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message
news:u0******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP02.phx.gbl...
>The memory load could be in the range of 1GB, basically hosting indexes in-memory for fast access to search thousands of large pieces of data. The server has 4GB, but IIS never uses more than 1GB, which leaves us 3GB unused, and also makes IIS vulnerable to running out of RAM if we were to fill up its tiny 1GB rather than isolate the process.
Would love to offload to another server, but the problem there becomes the bottleneck of 1gb/s network bandwidth which is more reserved for the other users who are doing heavy SQL Server queries (and SQL Server is not nearly as performant for what we are indexing, difference is like 10ms vs. 500ms). We also then deal with TCP/IP packet encapsulation which is a huge performance hit.
Shared memory is of course ideal. Problem is I asked about shared memory in the .NET world a year or two ago and was told it's not possible in the C# world, you have to use remoting. Or, use C++ (and native APIs) which I am not privvy to, although if someone can point me to P/Invoke API tutorials that are relevant to shared memory with C#/.NET I'd be curious.
Jon
"Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mv*@spam.guard .caspershouse.c omwrote in message news:ua******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP05.phx.gbl...
>>Jon,
I think that you might want to consider shared memory in this case, assuming you want to be on the same machine as IIS (although, I have to question why you would want to starve that machine, and not dedicate another machine to performing this task, as you run the risk of starving IIS of resources).
Are you passing massive amounts of data between the processes? If so, I can't say remoting is a good solution. With remoting, you can marshal objects by reference, or by value. When passing your massive data buffer across the app domain boundary, if you pass this by value, you are going to incur a huge cost in passing that buffer across the app domain boundary.
If your buffer has an affinity to the app domain it is in (derives from MarshalByRefObj ect) then you can make calls into the object from the remote process, but depending on how many calls you have to make to get managable chunks of data, this might be too expensive as well.
I think that a better solution would be to have a separate machine which is dedicated to this task, and then sending off the data buffers (or chunks of them) to the machine to be processed. You can use MSMQ for this, or maybe even a file drop, in which case, you have something like BizTalk pick up the file drop. You could use WCF as well, as there is support for large message sizes (although there is a message buffer limit there as well which you have to tweak if the buffer is exceptional ly large).
Which comes back to shared memory. If you are determined to stay on the same machine, then you can have the IIS process write to shared memory, then signal the service to look at a particular block of shared memory to process. Of course, you will have to write all the coordinatio n routines yourself (which is going to be a pain as well).
Hope this helps.
-- - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message news:ea****** ********@TK2MSF TNGP06.phx.gbl. .. We're looking at running a memory-intensive process for a web site as a Windows service in isolation of IIS because IIS refuses to consume all of the available physical RAM. Considering remoting to move data in and out of this process. Need something that's quick and dirty and easy to implement, but that's performant and secure at the same time. Any suggestion s / tutorials? Would prefer not to go on the TCP/IP stack (socket) as it is not very performant, but it certainly is quick and dirty and we might go with it anyway anyway unless there is another way with shared memory that is as easy and more performant.
Jon
Jon,
You could use that, but in the end, you have to consider how much data
you are going to push across this pipe. MMF might be better if you have to
access that data, but for signalling between the two applications, I would
go with remoting, or, if you can use .NET 3.0 (which is 2.0 with some
additional class libraries) then, you should use WCF.
--
- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]
- mv*@spam.guard. caspershouse.co m
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP05.phx.gbl. ..
>
"Jon Davis" <jo*@REMOVE.ME. PLEASE.jondavis .netwrote in message
news:us******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP04.phx.gbl...
>This looks rediculously straightforward .
http://www.developer.com/net/vb/arti...0926_3520891_2
Erm, that's Part 2 of a two-part, rediculously straightforward article.
http://www.developer.com/net/vb/arti...0926_3520891_1 This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics |
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Dear forum friends,
With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
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by: conductexam |
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I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and then checking html paragraph one by one.
At the time of converting from word file to html my equations which are in the word document file was convert into image.
Globals.ThisAddIn.Application.ActiveDocument.Select();...
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by: TSSRALBI |
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Hello
I'm a network technician in training and I need your help.
I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs.
The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols.
I succeeded, with both firewalls in the same network. But I'm wondering if it's possible to do the same thing, with 2 Pfsense firewalls...
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by: muto222 |
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How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.
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