Does anyone work for companies that actually implement both VB and C#? I
know that you can do this in theory, I just find it hard to imagine that a
company would split its programming technologies like that.
Of course now with the CLR there doesn't seem to be any performance benefit
to using C# over VB, and VB I think is an "easier" language to pick up. I
actually wonder if the salaries between vb.net and c# will balance out a
little now since the language doesn't mean as much anymore.
I personally am a VB developer moved into asp .net / vb .net. I've been
considering going ahead and learning C# as well. I have only academic
experience with C++, but it is enough that I can read c# examples and
convert them to vb so I don't think this is a big deal for me to pick up the
new language. Just more wondering if I should even bother.
Nov 17 '05
34  3151 
I suppose if you assume we're all using notepad then your argument holds
water.
But I'm a real programmer that uses real programming tools because that's
what makes sense.
That doesn't make me lazy, it makes me efficient.
--
I hope this helps,
Steve C. Orr, MCSD http://Steve.Orr.net
"John Kraft" <jh*****@ilstu. edu> wrote in message
news:bg******** **@malachite.il stu.edu... Steve C. Orr, MCSD wrote:
As discussed already, VS.NET automatically adjusts the case of your
VB.NET variables so that they all match. Therefore your point is again moot.
Also, because VB.NET uses real words it is far more readable than C#.
Even many C# programmers would likely agree with that. C#'s syntax strength
is it's brevity, not readability.
That's like saying that Spanish is more readable than Japanese. To
whom? I think a Japanese/Chinese person would disagree with you. That
is all a matter of perspective.
My first language I ever learned was C. Therefore, to me, C derived
languages are much easier to read. VB is easier to read for people who
are not programmers or who have only programmed in VB like languages.
Once again, we should base our comparison of the languages on the
languages themselves. After all, a language is nothing more than a
collection of symbol and a syntax to put those symbols together to
communicate something.
Additionally, "better" is a suggestive term. Maybe the discussion
should focus on which is "more powerful", "easier to learn", etc. I
personally tend to judge a language mostly on what a language can do,
with only a little bit given to ease of use. This is why I think C++ is
the best language ever made. But, that's a personal preference.
I personally prefer the c# language because I am more familier with the
syntax and there are, according to books I've read, some things you can
do in c# that cannot be done in VB. I am however forced to use VB in my
occupational position and have learned the syntax well enough that I am
mostly comfortable with it, even if I don't like it.
John
VB does use some English words (a quick scan of the keyword list shows
about 70% are English. Examples of non-English words are 'Ansi',
'Enum', 'CSng' etc).
The C# keyword list (half as long, remember) shows about 85% English
words. The most esoteric are things like 'uint' and, yes you've
guessed it, 'enum'.
I showed some VB source code to my non-programmer collegues. They can
read the English language proficiently, but couldn't understand the
code (not suprisingly). That's because, to understand VB, you need to
know over 150 keywords, the Framework, and principles of technologies
like OO, Event driven programming and structured exception handling.
Just like for C#.
Both languages have a deterministic structure - a particular piece of
code means something concrete. It is unambiguous.
If you're trained to read VB, it makes perfect sense and is clear.
If you're trained to read C#, that also makes perfect sense. The only
difference is, 50% less keywords to learn.
John
"Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <St***@Orr.ne t> wrote in message news:<OI******* ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl>.. . No, I'm saying that I can read the english language, therefore VB.NET is
easy to read.
VB.NET uses real words, that makes it READABLE.
Of course anyone can read C# with enough training, but it takes a good deal
more training because it has much less in common with the english language
which most of us already know to begin with.
"John Sparrow" <js******@eccle scollege.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:13******** *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com... This may be true to *you* as a VB programmer, but programmers familiar
with C# find the code easy to read.
In the same way, I find reading VB similar to wading through treacle.
But I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you.
The agument that "I can't read C#, therefore C# is difficult to read."
is like saying "I can't speak French, therefore French is difficult to
speak."
I believe this debate has long since reached the point of diminishing
returns!
--
HTH,
Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer http://www.takempis.com
Complex things are made up of
lots of simple things.
"John Sparrow" <js******@eccle scollege.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:13******** *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com... VB does use some English words (a quick scan of the keyword list shows
about 70% are English. Examples of non-English words are 'Ansi',
'Enum', 'CSng' etc).
The C# keyword list (half as long, remember) shows about 85% English
words. The most esoteric are things like 'uint' and, yes you've
guessed it, 'enum'.
I showed some VB source code to my non-programmer collegues. They can
read the English language proficiently, but couldn't understand the
code (not suprisingly). That's because, to understand VB, you need to
know over 150 keywords, the Framework, and principles of technologies
like OO, Event driven programming and structured exception handling.
Just like for C#.
Both languages have a deterministic structure - a particular piece of
code means something concrete. It is unambiguous.
If you're trained to read VB, it makes perfect sense and is clear.
If you're trained to read C#, that also makes perfect sense. The only
difference is, 50% less keywords to learn.
John
"Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <St***@Orr.ne t> wrote in message
news:<OI******* ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl>.. . No, I'm saying that I can read the english language, therefore VB.NET is
easy to read.
VB.NET uses real words, that makes it READABLE.
Of course anyone can read C# with enough training, but it takes a good
deal more training because it has much less in common with the english
language which most of us already know to begin with.
"John Sparrow" <js******@eccle scollege.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:13******** *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com... This may be true to *you* as a VB programmer, but programmers familiar
with C# find the code easy to read.
In the same way, I find reading VB similar to wading through treacle.
But I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you.
The agument that "I can't read C#, therefore C# is difficult to read."
is like saying "I can't speak French, therefore French is difficult to
speak."
Will someone PLEASE kill this thread? What a waste of bandwidth.
let's rename this thread ...let's call it the pompous a$$ thread.
"John Kraft" <jh*****@ilstu. edu> wrote in message
news:bh******** **@malachite.il stu.edu... Steve C. Orr, MCSD wrote: I suppose if you assume we're all using notepad then your argument holds
water.
But I'm a real programmer that uses real programming tools because
that's what makes sense.
That doesn't make me lazy, it makes me efficient.
I certainly was not calling you lazy. I was simply pointing out that
niceties like visual studio, while nice and efficient to use, tend to
breed laziness. Just like a person will spend 20 minutes searching for
the remote control rather than getting up off the couch and changing the
channel manually.
However, since I am not a real programmer, I tend to attempt to force
myself to write code as best I can with as little help from the editor
as possible. I do, however, rely on context sensitive coloring because
I am slightly dislexic and tend to mistype words.
John
There's no reason to be intimidated by all the keywords in VB.NET.
Many of them are leftovers from VB6 and before. They still exist for
backward compatibility & such.
Many of them are now somewhat redundant and unnecessary - but it's nice to
have options.
You can learn those extra keywords if you want, but you don't need to know
most of them to be a good VB programmer.
You're right that C# has less keywords - but many more symbols that you must
memorize, and they can mean different things in different contexts.
Symbols are the main reason "regular folks" don't understand computer code.
The less symbols the better in my opinion. To me it seems lazy to save a
few keystrokes at the expense of readability.
I type very fast as any good coder should, so saving a few keystrokes should
not be as important as self documenting code.
If people could type computer instructions in plain English then anybody
could be a programmer. Of course that day won't be here any time soon but
until then the closest we have come is Visual Basic. Long live VB!
--
I hope this helps,
Steve C. Orr, MCSD http://Steve.Orr.net
"John Sparrow" <js******@eccle scollege.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:13******** *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com... VB does use some English words (a quick scan of the keyword list shows
about 70% are English. Examples of non-English words are 'Ansi',
'Enum', 'CSng' etc).
The C# keyword list (half as long, remember) shows about 85% English
words. The most esoteric are things like 'uint' and, yes you've
guessed it, 'enum'.
I showed some VB source code to my non-programmer collegues. They can
read the English language proficiently, but couldn't understand the
code (not suprisingly). That's because, to understand VB, you need to
know over 150 keywords, the Framework, and principles of technologies
like OO, Event driven programming and structured exception handling.
Just like for C#.
Both languages have a deterministic structure - a particular piece of
code means something concrete. It is unambiguous.
If you're trained to read VB, it makes perfect sense and is clear.
If you're trained to read C#, that also makes perfect sense. The only
difference is, 50% less keywords to learn.
John
"Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <St***@Orr.ne t> wrote in message
news:<OI******* ******@TK2MSFTN GP10.phx.gbl>.. . No, I'm saying that I can read the english language, therefore VB.NET is
easy to read.
VB.NET uses real words, that makes it READABLE.
Of course anyone can read C# with enough training, but it takes a good
deal more training because it has much less in common with the english
language which most of us already know to begin with.
"John Sparrow" <js******@eccle scollege.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:13******** *************** ***@posting.goo gle.com... This may be true to *you* as a VB programmer, but programmers familiar
with C# find the code easy to read.
In the same way, I find reading VB similar to wading through treacle.
But I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you.
The agument that "I can't read C#, therefore C# is difficult to read."
is like saying "I can't speak French, therefore French is difficult to
speak."
Steve C. Orr, MCSD wrote: Lighten up! There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate. Nobody is forcing
you to read this thread.
No kidding!
And, just for the record, I am not a REAL programmer. I'm a programming
student, specificly a senior in Computer Science, at Illinois State
University, so no offense was taken on my part.
John
Steve C. Orr, MCSD wrote: There's no reason to be intimidated by all the keywords in VB.NET.
Many of them are leftovers from VB6 and before. They still exist for
backward compatibility & such.
Many of them are now somewhat redundant and unnecessary - but it's nice to
have options.
You can learn those extra keywords if you want, but you don't need to know
most of them to be a good VB programmer.
You're right that C# has less keywords - but many more symbols that you must
memorize, and they can mean different things in different contexts.
Can you give some examples? I think VB is worse at this than C#. One
of the biggest problems I have in VB is determining whether a line of
code is assigning a value or doing a comparison... or more specifically,
how the compiler will treat such code.
I saw a line of code once that said something like:
var1 = (var2 = var3 + var4)
and I was confused for quite some time as to what would happen with the
code.
In C#, the = and == are quite different and a line of code like above
would be far more clear.
John
> you to read this thread
you mean dribble don't you? a forum for pompous a$$es to tell everyone why
they think their way is the only way....what a bunch of pious holier than
though crap.
"Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <St***@Orr.ne t> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. .. Lighten up! There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate. Nobody is
forcing
..
--
I hope this helps,
Steve C. Orr, MCSD
http://Steve.Orr.net
"Seaside" <ss@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:ee******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. .. let's rename this thread ...let's call it the pompous a$$ thread.
"John Kraft" <jh*****@ilstu. edu> wrote in message
news:bh******** **@malachite.il stu.edu... Steve C. Orr, MCSD wrote:
> I suppose if you assume we're all using notepad then your argument holds > water.
> But I'm a real programmer that uses real programming tools because
that's > what makes sense.
> That doesn't make me lazy, it makes me efficient.
>
I certainly was not calling you lazy. I was simply pointing out that
niceties like visual studio, while nice and efficient to use, tend to
breed laziness. Just like a person will spend 20 minutes searching
for the remote control rather than getting up off the couch and changing
the channel manually.
However, since I am not a real programmer, I tend to attempt to force
myself to write code as best I can with as little help from the editor
as possible. I do, however, rely on context sensitive coloring
because I am slightly dislexic and tend to mistype words.
John
This newsgroup is not for debate! Look at its charter. Take your debate and
cram it you pompous a$$.
"Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <St***@Orr.ne t> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. .. Didn't your mother ever tell you what to do if you don't have anything
nice to say?
Modern society is based on debate.
What would America be today if there was no Democrats vs. Republicans, or
Science vs. Religion?
I can't quite imagine what that would be like, but it seems quite boring
to me.
If you can't handle intelligent debate then perhaps it's because you lack
the necessary prerequisite.
Even if I disagree with some of the posts in this thread, at least I
respect the authors for contributing some intelligent thought and discussion,
unlike your posts which seem to have no value beyond insulting people.
--
I hope this helps,
Steve C. Orr, MCSD
http://Steve.Orr.net
"Seaside" <ss@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP09.phx.gbl. .. you to read this thread
you mean dribble don't you? a forum for pompous a$$es to tell everyone
why they think their way is the only way....what a bunch of pious holier
than though crap.
"Steve C. Orr, MCSD" <St***@Orr.ne t> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP10.phx.gbl. .. Lighten up! There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate. Nobody is
forcing
.
--
I hope this helps,
Steve C. Orr, MCSD
http://Steve.Orr.net
"Seaside" <ss@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:ee******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. ..
> let's rename this thread ...let's call it the pompous a$$ thread.
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