55  3563 
lylefair wrote: Rick Brandt wrote: A serious developer should own all of the Access versions and
deliver a file that he knows will work for the user. If you do
that then the fact that a newer version uses a file format that is
not compatible with all of your users is not a problem. You simply
don't develop in that version except to create apps for users who
also have that version (or a compatible version).
I think your logic supports the retention of Clipper for those clients
who have DOS based machines. Great! I love Clipper.
But then what if they have only Commodore 64's? Ah well, there was a
db for the Commodore 64 called Oracle (no Really, it WAS called
Oracle!) with the wonderful ability of being able to cut and paste
rectangles of the screen as text (or was that PaperClip?). So, I
should dust off the machine in the basement?
Okay, take a reasonable argument and stretch it to the ridiculous. The issue
was clearly Access apps and the OP's concern was "What do I do if the new
version is a different format that my users don't have?". The answer to that is
simple, you develop a version that they can use.
It is reasonable to assume that you will encounter many users who still have
Office 97. It is not reasonable to assume that many of your users will be
running Windows 3.1 or DOS 6.0.
--
I don't check the Email account attached
to this message. Send instead to...
RBrandt at Hunter dot com
On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:05:48 -0500, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote:
.... Well, if that's a Boolean AND, then I'm not a serious developer, as
I don't own any version of Access beyond 2000. I develop in that
where necessary and deploy on A2K2 or A2K3 where necessary. My
clients using something beyond A2K provide me Terminal Server access
to administer and test the apps on the versions they are deploying
under.
Personally, I find A2K too flakey to work in. A2K2 is far more stable. I've
been able to convince most of my clients to switch to A2K2 or A2K3.
I develop almost exclusively in A2K2 now, and use the 2K2 file format to keep
people from running it under A2K since I didn't test it in A2K, and there's a
good chance that won't work.
David W. Fenton wrote: "Rick Brandt" <ri*********@ho tmail.com> wrote in
news:4R******** **@newssvr12.ne ws.prodigy.com:
WJA wrote: I guess I'm just thinking out loud here but does anyone have any
idea what the default file format will be in the next version?
Will MS stick to A2K or are they going to wipe the slate clean?
It will be great to have added functionality in the development
environment, but will this only be usable if the user is running
the new version of Access on their PC?
> From my experience, companies don't race out and purchase the
> latest
version of Office as soon as it hits the shelves. Many that I
know of are using Office XP and some are still using Office 2K.
At the moment a developer can develop the application with Access
2003 and still distribute it to clients who are using the older
versions if he/she sticks with Access 2K file format and uses the
relevant older version to create the mde. Will this continue?
A serious developer should own all of the Access versions and
deliver a file that he knows will work for the user. . . . .
Well, if that's a Boolean AND, then I'm not a serious developer, as
I don't own any version of Access beyond 2000. I develop in that
where necessary and deploy on A2K2 or A2K3 where necessary. My
clients using something beyond A2K provide me Terminal Server access
to administer and test the apps on the versions they are deploying
under.
That is not the argument I intended to convey. You can deliver an app that will
work for all of your users without owning A2K2 or A2K3 by delivering an A2K file
format. That is exactly what I do as well. I have copies of the two newer
versions so I can be familair with them and so I can test in them, but I never
produce files in any format besides 97 and 2K since the latter also supports the
newer versions of Access . . . If you do
that then the fact that a newer version uses a file format that is
not compatible with all of your users is not a problem. You
simply don't develop in that version except to create apps for
users who also have that version (or a compatible version).
I see no reason whatsoever to use the A2K2 or A2K3 file formats. Why
restrict your deployment platform for such a paltry collection of
new features?
See above. I would never use the newer file format unless there were an
application requirement that necessitated that. If you want to immediately acquire the latest version when it
comes out and learn all of the ins and outs that is commendable.
It doesn't necessarily follow that the newest release should
become the development platform for all of your users.
This was my main point. The OP seeemed to be conveying the idea that his move
to the newest version was a given and that this presents a problem if his users
stay with an older one. My position is that this is not an issue unless the
developer is silly enough to make it one.
--
I don't check the Email account attached
to this message. Send instead to...
RBrandt at Hunter dot com
I was approached to write an application in the mid 90's by a man who
had a thriving aluminum business. He showed me into a room he had
prepared in the early 80's, so that he could "computeriz e" his business
when he had time. There were ten new, never used original IBM PCs
sporting single sided 5.25 floppies and green on black CRTs, all
sitting on desks with steno chairs in front. When I explained that
these were worthless (maybe not to Antiques Road Show) he decided not
to pursue the app.
All my DAPS connect to MS-SQL dbs.
Here is a sample connection string
Provider=SQLOLE DB.1;Persist Security Info=False;User
ID=whatever;Ini tial Catalog=DB66666 6;Data
Source=aserver. discountasp.net ;Use Procedure for Prepare=1;Auto
Translate=True; Packet Size=4096;Works tation ID=FFDBA;Use Encryption for
Data=False;
This is a typical ADO connection string.
Steve Jorgensen <no****@nospam. nospam> wrote in
news:ic******** *************** *********@4ax.c om: On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:05:48 -0500, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@bw ay.net.invalid> wrote:
...Well, if that's a Boolean AND, then I'm not a serious developer,
as I don't own any version of Access beyond 2000. I develop in
that where necessary and deploy on A2K2 or A2K3 where necessary.
My clients using something beyond A2K provide me Terminal Server
access to administer and test the apps on the versions they are
deploying under.
Personally, I find A2K too flakey to work in. A2K2 is far more
stable. I've been able to convince most of my clients to switch
to A2K2 or A2K3.
Well, it seems to me that the problems in A2K are for the developer,
not for the users, so I see no reason to suggest that they upgrade
so that my job is easier.
I develop almost exclusively in A2K2 now, and use the 2K2 file
format to keep people from running it under A2K since I didn't
test it in A2K, and there's a good chance that won't work.
I have clients who are running a mix of A2K and A2K3, so I must
develop for A2K.
Of course, I mostly don't even use the features added in A2K, since
I still think like an A97 programmer. I am at the point now where I
very seldom develop in A97 and convert to A2K for production use
because I just got tired of troubleshooting the things that were
broken by A2K that work just fine in A97.
But it has increased development time, since A2K is just not as easy
to use for me -- the VBE is something I fight against at all turns.
And I still don't understand the issues that arise from the VBE
thinking code is executing when it isn't. This happened to me today
while programming something. I hadn't executed any code, just typed
it, and I got a message that whatever I wanted to do had to halt the
running code. That's the kind of thing that makes me crazy, partly
because sometimes you can't do something and you get no message
providing a reason. And there's no clear indication that I can see
that the code is executing.
But I do work in it and it doesn't feel quite as unwieldy as it used
to.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
"lylefair" <ly***********@ aim.com> wrote in
news:11******** **************@ g43g2000cwa.goo glegroups.com: All my DAPS connect to MS-SQL dbs.
So, you want the SQL dbs running on the ISP's host, or you're going
to allow your ISP's IP address to connect through the firewall to
the SQL Server db?
Sounds to me like asking for trouble for two reasons:
1. you're introducing more points of administration, one of which is
not really under your control (the web host), AND
2. you're opening up security holes in your network where the SQL
Server is hosted, either by allowing everyone to connect on an open
SQL Server port, or by authorizing such access from the web host's
IP address, which could subject you to worms or other forms of
nefarious activity should that web host be compromised.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.bway.net/~dfenton
dfenton at bway dot net http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
DAPs are HTM files. A browser downloads HTM files to the client
machine. Any code, script, com etc that is to be run, is run on the
client machine, except in the rare situation where code is directed to
be run at server (and I can find no evidence that such is the case in
DAP files; how could there be when they will run directly from the
client machine without any web host or server be involved?). That is
why Access stores a copy of the DAP (htm file) on the local machine. It
can be run directly from the client machine. All the web site does is
provide a repository for this file.
So it is not the web site that connects to the SQL-Sevrer, it is the
client machine, the same way the client machine to a web-enabled MS-SQL
Server connects though Access, Enterprise Manager, the new Visual
Components, ADO, ODBC or whatever.
Thus DAPs are dangerous only in the information they show in their html
source, and that is everything except the password (we can have the
password too if we wish to). This is why I do not make my DAPs
available on a public site. They are available only on a site the
requires an NT or NT-like logon with UserName and Password. Can you
open http://terraware.ca/DAP/loan.htm?
This discussion reenforces my point that there is no reason for web
hosts to ban DAPs. These are htm files. They are not run from the host!
They are run from the client machine. Why would the host care?
On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:29:22 -0500, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@bwa y.net.invalid> wrote: Steve Jorgensen <no****@nospam. nospam> wrote in
news:ic******* *************** **********@4ax. com:
On Sun, 09 Oct 2005 15:05:48 -0500, "David W. Fenton"
<dX********@b way.net.invalid > wrote:
...Well, if that's a Boolean AND, then I'm not a serious developer,
as I don't own any version of Access beyond 2000. I develop in
that where necessary and deploy on A2K2 or A2K3 where necessary.
My clients using something beyond A2K provide me Terminal Server
access to administer and test the apps on the versions they are
deploying under.
Personally, I find A2K too flakey to work in. A2K2 is far more
stable. I've been able to convince most of my clients to switch
to A2K2 or A2K3.
Well, it seems to me that the problems in A2K are for the developer,
not for the users, so I see no reason to suggest that they upgrade
so that my job is easier.
The problems that I fight with in A2K cost me time and my clients money, so
I'll tell them that and suggest they upgrade. If a client insists that it's
not convenient for them to upgrade from A2K, I don't argue, and I do the
development in A2K. If, however, the client agrees to go to A2K2/3, I do the
development in A2K2, and use the A2K2 file format to enforce the fact that the
code is supported in A2K.
....Of course, I mostly don't even use the features added in A2K, since
I still think like an A97 programmer. I am at the point now where I
very seldom develop in A97 and convert to A2K for production use
because I just got tired of troubleshooting the things that were
broken by A2K that work just fine in A97.
But it has increased development time, since A2K is just not as easy
to use for me -- the VBE is something I fight against at all turns.
And I still don't understand the issues that arise from the VBE
thinking code is executing when it isn't. This happened to me today
while programming something. I hadn't executed any code, just typed
it, and I got a message that whatever I wanted to do had to halt the
running code. That's the kind of thing that makes me crazy, partly
because sometimes you can't do something and you get no message
providing a reason. And there's no clear indication that I can see
that the code is executing.
As long as you use A2K2 now, you might as well start using some of the things
it can do that are nice and make up (completely or incompletely) for some of
the negative aspects of A2K and above.
For one thing, custom events are a great way to untangle some otherwise tricky
VBA coding problems, particularly circular dependency types of issues. It's
also nice to be able to create UDFs in class modules (including form modules)
and to define public enumerations in same class modules where the procedures
that use them reside instead of having to put them in a separate standard
module somewhere.
Here are 2 ways I've gotten benefit from using custom events:
1. A form could be opened form multiple places and a calling form may need to
refresh itself when something happens on the invoked form. Using an even
helps keep things nicely decoupled since the called form just raises an event
to say when the action occurred, and the calling form decides what action to
take as a result. The invoked form doesn't need to know what will be
receiving the event or what it will do with it.
2. Since in VBA, a circular reference is a memory leak waiting to happen, how
does, for instance, one item in a linked list pass information to the thing
that links to it? A bidirectionally linked list is a circular reference, so
that's not the best idea. Using an event, the referenced object can make
calls to the item that refers to it.
But I do work in it and it doesn't feel quite as unwieldy as it used
to.
Part of it is just the devil you know vs the devil you don't know. At one of
my client sites, I get to work with 2 monitors - that's when the separate VBE
window really starts to seem like a good thing.
>> Personally, I find A2K too flakey to work in. A2K2 is far more
stable. I've been able to convince most of my clients to switch
to A2K2 or A2K3.
Well, it seems to me that the problems in A2K are for the developer,
not for the users, so I see no reason to suggest that they upgrade
so that my job is easier.
Isn't A2K more prone to corruption? I could be wrong about this,
but that's what I recall from past posts ... and what I've personally
experienced.
The problem I'm speaking of occurs when people with A2002 or
A2003 attach to a back end A2000 that is also being edited by
someone with A2000. Some offices buy new computers with whatever
version of Office comes with it and have mixed environments. This
seems to cause the corruption ... rather suggesting that they should
upgrade to something newer ... A2002 at least and A2003 is better,
in this scenario of mixed version use. This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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