Hi there,
We all know Steve Santos. He *really* is an advertising and job-hunting machine.
A lot of us have asked him *many* times and in different ways to stop his blatant advertising.
This has been repeated for years and years now. Result: Unfortunately nada.
He just doesn't give a shit. He is only very offensive in his answers to these requests.
Also he has been 'kill-filed' by many of us. Result: Nada.
He did not get enough answers anymore, so he went hiding his identity.
He asked questions as Ron, Tom, Rachel, Kathy, Katherine, Marie, Kristine, Heather and ????
Steve has *clearly* been trolling with his questions.
Nobody can stop him from doing this. A troll like he is, can change his/hers identity over and over.
It's obvious that he is *very* determined and willing to keep on advertising.
Maybe he thinks he has the 'right' to do so because he is a 'major player' in this and other newsgroups ?
But, I think maybe he can be forced to stop the advertising-shit.
No need for arguing, shouting or flaming (this has been done and won't help).
I have a little and simple plan for this. It might work . . .
Since a couple of weeks now I am sort of 'chasing' his advertisings as some of you may have noticed.
Result: Steve is *a little* annoyed.
While he accuses me of acting like I am GOD ??? , he now wishes me 'snake-hell' ????
(If you are interested: see last thread: 'MDE file shareware?')
Well I am not pretending to be any God at all. I am also not a 'major player' in this ng, like Steve thinks he is ...
I *just* want PC DataShit to stop his advertising-shit, that's *all* I am after.
Arno R
Nov 13 '05
45  2768 
Tim,
This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
create complex databases."
It can't be any clearer than that! And I don't abuse it. When all it takes
is a simple newsgroup paragraph to help a poster, I always do that freely.
When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster the
option to consider hiring me. I don't gouge my customers, my fees are very
reasonable, for example, as I previously mentioned I gave that customer a
simple order entry database for $200. I have helped numerous customers who
have been very grateful. Would you like that that help not be available to
them anymore? Or is the real gripe that I don't mention there will be a fee?
If that is it, I will start saying "Contact me if you would like my help. My
fees are very reasonable."
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurpleP andaChasers.Moe rtherium> wrote in message
news:d3******** **@coranto.ucs. mun.ca... Alan Webb wrote:
Arno,
Maybe so, but your insistence on debating everyone replying to you and
getting the last word surpasses whatever sins Steve has committed.
I have to disagree with you, Alan. The FAQ says Steve's behaviour is a
violation of the group charter. The big guns respect the charter and
don't do it, so why should Steve be permitted to do it without the
standard usenet response?
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me
Craig,
Thank you for your response!
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Craig Hornish" <te**@cap-associates.com> wrote in message
news:#r******** ******@tk2msftn gp13.phx.gbl... Hi,
Just wanted to post and opposite view of the way Steve handles this
situation.
1. I can't believe it is a big problem that anyone who contacts Steve,
doesn't have some idea that that he is in business and it will probably
cost them to design their database. I think it is apperent with the name, and
website.
2. In the post that he is responding to that contain the "Contact me"
are post that other people have responded to in a similar way. They say
something like "With what your are asking for would require you to hire
someone. Give us smaller parts of the problem:"
3. Many people have said they will not accept other peoples files. I
assume Steve would.
4. He does answer other posts, no matter what you think of them. So he
is contributing more than just an advertising platform for his signature.
Just like anyone else with a webpage link or even an MVP (I can give a
little on the MVP but it is still a form of advertising). On a quick look
he is well over 70% straight answers compaired to "contact me".
5. The posts are all responces not a stand alone post. Maybe not a big
distinction but it doesn't clutter up any lines in my Outlook Express.
Only if you open a thread do you see those posts. So it really is not that
batent.
I just read a little about the pseudonyms and will not comment on that
part.
JMHO
Craig Hornish
"StopThisAdvert ising" <StopThisAdvert ising@DataShit> wrote in message
news:42******** **************@ dreader2.news.t iscali.nl...
Hi there,
We all know Steve Santos. He *really* is an advertising and job-hunting
machine.
A lot of us have asked him *many* times and in different ways to stop his
blatant advertising.
This has been repeated for years and years now. Result: Unfortunately
nada. He just doesn't give a shit. He is only very offensive in his answers to
these requests.
Also he has been 'kill-filed' by many of us. Result: Nada.
He did not get enough answers anymore, so he went hiding his identity.
He asked questions as Ron, Tom, Rachel, Kathy, Katherine, Marie, Kristine,
Heather and ????
Steve has *clearly* been trolling with his questions.
Nobody can stop him from doing this. A troll like he is, can change
his/hers identity over and over.
It's obvious that he is *very* determined and willing to keep on
advertising.
Maybe he thinks he has the 'right' to do so because he is a 'major player'
in this and other newsgroups ?
But, I think maybe he can be forced to stop the advertising-shit.
No need for arguing, shouting or flaming (this has been done and won't
help).
I have a little and simple plan for this. It might work . . .
Since a couple of weeks now I am sort of 'chasing' his advertisings as
some of you may have noticed.
Result: Steve is *a little* annoyed.
While he accuses me of acting like I am GOD ??? , he now wishes me
'snake-hell' ????
(If you are interested: see last thread: 'MDE file shareware?')
Well I am not pretending to be any God at all. I am also not a 'major
player' in this ng, like Steve thinks he is ...
I *just* want PC DataShit to stop his advertising-shit, that's *all* I am
after.
Arno R
John,
Thank you too for stating your views in a polite manner!
Steve
PC Datasheet
"John Marshall, MVP" <la******@stone henge.ca> wrote in message
news:#F******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP14.phx.gbl... "Craig Hornish" <te**@cap-associates.com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@tk2msf tngp13.phx.gbl. .. Hi,
Just wanted to post and opposite view of the way Steve handles this
situation.
1. I can't believe it is a big problem that anyone who contacts
Steve, doesn't have some idea that that he is in business and it will probably
cost them to design their database. I think it is apperent with the
name, and website.
The issue is the solicitation. If one person does it, why can't everyone
and you will end up with a newsgroup full of ads rather than questions and
answers.
2. In the post that he is responding to that contain the "Contact me"
are post that other people have responded to in a similar way. They say
something like "With what your are asking for would require you to hire
someone. Give us smaller parts of the problem:"
That is two different scenarios. The first is looking for business and the
second is indicating that the request is vague and the poster would get
free help if he could be more specific in his questions.
3. Many people have said they will not accept other peoples files. I
assume Steve would.
Without knowing the author, unsolicited files should never be accepted.
4. He does answer other posts, no matter what you think of them. So
he is contributing more than just an advertising platform for his
signature. Just like anyone else with a webpage link or even an MVP (I can give a
little on the MVP but it is still a form of advertising). On a quick
look he is well over 70% straight answers compaired to "contact me".
As a member of the newsgroup he does help out and there is no issue with
having a bit of advertisement in a signature line. The MVP tag line is
just a means of indicating an individual that Microsoft has recognized for
their voluntary contributions in the newsgroups. So it lets users know that if
the poster is an MVP that the answer should be good (and free). The percentage
of straight to ads is immaterial. The "contact me" messages just tarnish
any good will the straight messages convey.
5. The posts are all responces not a stand alone post. Maybe not a
big distinction but it doesn't clutter up any lines in my Outlook Express.
Only if you open a thread do you see those posts. So it really is not
that batent.
With one message it is not a big deal, but if this type of action becomes
the norm then users will waste time downloading these messages (yes there
still are people using dial up) and reading them. You still have to open
these messages to see that it is a solicitation. Of course, he could be
kill filed, but that will also remove any of his postive posts.
I just read a little about the pseudonyms and will not comment on that
part.
I have no problem with pseudonyms. If he does not like his name, that is
his business.
JMHO
Craig Hornish
Thank you for at least stating the case in a more polite manner than Arno.
John...
Not sure I am qualified to respond to this as I am an infrequent visitor
here and admittedly am not particularly newsgroup savy or familiar with
netiquette other than watching what other people do and common sense.
But here it is anyway.
1) In respect to the following comment:
"The posts are all responces not a stand alone post. Maybe not a big
distinction but it doesn't clutter up any lines in my Outlook Express.
Only if you open a thread do you see those posts."
Well, I don't usually have the threads grouped and the number of posts
in regards to this are getting to be many! Kind of self-defeating! And
yes, I am now contributing to this :-)
2) I am not sure of all the facts but it seems there is an admission of
using pseudonyms. Whilst I don't have a problem with someone using a
pseudonym (as per examples given by Steve), using multiple pseudonyms
and/or using a pseudonym in conjunction with one's real identity in the
context of this newsgroup amounts to deceit as far as I am concerned.
3) I think a simple solution to all of this would be:
- Post as 1 identity, using your company identity. The more legitimate
posts/answers, the more advertising.
- Remove the e-mail address and any "contact me" messages and only use
the website address as part of the signature, which in conjunction with
the below point should be "reasonable " use. This way there is no
solicitation, yet contact details are available. I don't know about
anyone else, but if I see an interesting post and there is a link
available, I will go and have a look.
4) Instead of bickering here and spending lots of time posting "fake"
messages, etc... the time could be spent putting content on the "Tips
and Tricks" section of the website. This would make any linking
legitimate. If desingned properly, the links could go to related content
whilst the page still provides the menu showing the available options
(hey, I am for hire, can I help you?).
5) Somewhat on a different track. I just had a look at the website. Just
as a little comment. The "Tips and Tricks" logo looks a lot like the
logo Microsoft uses. I don't have a problem with that whatsoever but
would suggest checking on the legality of this.
This is all I can think of right now without wading through all the
posts but may be it provides a solution for everybody. If not, I had a
chance to practice my typing skills and give my 5 cents worth.
Andreas
Comments inline (sorry Alan ...)
"PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam. spam> wrote in message news:3m******** *********@newsr ead3.news.atl.e arthlink.net... Tim,
This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
create complex databases."
And I don't abuse it.
It can't be any clearer than that!
Indeed, I can't be clearer. Look for yourself and look also at the group charter/FAQ
http://groups.google.nl/groups?as_q=...ng=d&lr=&hl=nl
When all it takes
is a simple newsgroup paragraph to help a poster, I always do that freely.
If you mean you don't advertise when simple questions are involved, this is simply NOT true.
If you want examples just ask.
The point is that there is NO justification for blatant job-hunting and advertising .
The fact that you answer questions is NOT relevant here.
When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster the
option to consider hiring me.
It is very obvious indeed that one can hire you. (You pointed this out yourself didn't you ?)
Your sig is clearly inviting (It's a good sig actually...)
*************** *************** *********
But: IMO your 'current' sig should be enough. There has been enough 'rumour' about 'earlier' sigs remember ?
Would you like that that help not be available to
them anymore? Or is the real gripe that I don't mention there will be a fee?
Well Steve. others can and will help also.
IMO It won't be a *great* loss for this ng if you would not be available...
The real gripe is that you are job-hunting over and over again and that you don't give a shit about people telling you that this is NOT done.
You are acting as this group can't do without your help.(Major contributer, sic)
Well, you are not offering that *much* help for free.
For instance check out your website, there is not *much* to get there.
'Access-Excel Tips' When you click it it says: "Coming soon". Nice.
You have gathered enough code or not ? http://groups.google.com/groups?selm....earthlink.net
Instead of saying "I have something that you want" and sell free code for $125,-- you could do different like other 'real' major players here do.
Arno R
PC Datasheet wrote: This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
create complex databases."
But it also says:
"The following are specifically forbidden in the CDMA newsgroup:
"* Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free, a demo, or
otherwise. You may answer a question with a link to a commercial site
which pertains to the question. You may also add a phrase and/or link in
your signature."
When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster the
option to consider hiring me.
And that is advertising which is in clear violation of the FAQ and
newsgroup charter.
I don't gouge my customers, my fees are very
reasonable,
I don't doubt that - however, what you have described is advertising.
The FAQ, however, offers you a way out of these clear violations.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "What's UP, Dittoooooo?" - Ditto
Don't see what all the fuss is about really. About 2 weeks ago I joined this
NG (Getting Started) because I was contemplating using Access (due almost
entirely to the fact that I have it installed, not because I like it) and
asked a general question of those who are likely to know.
I scanned the existing posts first, as is expected, and it became
immediately obvious that you are little more than a self appointed
"Authority" , self opinionated, and likely to be the kind of person who
insists their advice is good even when proven otherwise. Furthermore it soon
appeared that you were simply "Advertisin g" and like most spammers of that
disposition, probably advertising nothing more than intellectually stolen
material for which you would claim the credit. In short, about on the same
level as a "Script Kiddie" calling himself a "Hacker".
As for everyone else here I appreciated their answers and their efforts to
render assistance. It's about a desire to help others, not about proving
some vast "Knowledge" or advertising. I imagine those who genuinely need and
appreciate tips or hints soon spot this and, like me, quickly choose who to
ignore. The really good people here don't need to advertise, so it says
something about you that you feel the need to do so :) - doesn't take a
genius to spot that really.
Generally, when joining a new discussion group I allow every contributor the
same amount of respect and adjust that level according to their behaviour.
Suffice to say that in my humble opinion at least you do yourself a
disservice! In short, your blatant advertising works backwards!
Have a nice day
Charlie
Follow-ups limited to "Getting Started"
<<"* Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free, a demo, or
otherwise..... >>
Notice the word PRODUCT! It is very clear what this means. Referring to a
"demo" clearly defines product as a physical entity and not a service. This
is consistent with ""The purpose of the group will be to provide technical
help....." Promoting a product is not providing technical help.
<< I don't doubt that - however, what you have described is advertising.>>
Microsoft's Rules Of Conduct state, " We ask that you refrain from posting
advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended
use and purpose of the newsgroup ...." Microsoft clearly delineates between
advertisements and solicitations. "* Advertising of any kind, even if the
product is free, a demo, or otherwise ...." is again consistent with
Microsoft. "Contact me if you would like my help" promotes no product; it is
a solicitation and it conforms completely with the charter of the newsgroup,
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
create complex databases."
Finally, one can not wonder what is the real motivation for complaining
about "Contact me if you would like my help". Recently the following three
posts appeared in the newsgroup:
World First Cancer Immune Booster
International Moitivation Survey
New Affiliate Program 80% Commission
and not a one of the "MVPs" who responded in this thread responded to any of
those three posts. Those three posts were obviously not related to MS Access
and therefore obviously in violation of the Rules of Conduct yet no MVP
responded to any of them.
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurpleP andaChasers.Moe rtherium> wrote in message
news:d3******** **@coranto.ucs. mun.ca... PC Datasheet wrote:
This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people
who use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA
to create complex databases."
But it also says:
"The following are specifically forbidden in the CDMA newsgroup:
"* Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free, a demo, or
otherwise. You may answer a question with a link to a commercial site
which pertains to the question. You may also add a phrase and/or link in
your signature."
When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster
the option to consider hiring me.
And that is advertising which is in clear violation of the FAQ and
newsgroup charter.
> I don't gouge my customers, my fees are very
reasonable,
I don't doubt that - however, what you have described is advertising.
The FAQ, however, offers you a way out of these clear violations.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "What's UP, Dittoooooo?" - Ditto
PC Datasheet wrote: Finally, one can not wonder what is the real motivation for complaining
about "Contact me if you would like my help". Recently the following three
posts appeared in the newsgroup:
World First Cancer Immune Booster
International Moitivation Survey
New Affiliate Program 80% Commission
and not a one of the "MVPs" who responded in this thread responded to any of
those three posts. Those three posts were obviously not related to MS Access
and therefore obviously in violation of the Rules of Conduct yet no MVP
responded to any of them.
The people that post messages like those you point out aren't interested
in reading replies. They are just interested in posting a message to as
many places as possible. A reply would be an empty gesture. Most people
realize that.
Apparently those who replied to this thread thought there may still be
some hope for you.
Steve,
Where I live there is a saying (translated):
"You can never talk it straight when it's bended..."
Think about it and give up your "contact me ..."
Arno R
"PC Datasheet" <no****@nospam. spam> schreef in bericht news:hm******** *********@newsr ead1.news.atl.e arthlink.net... <<"* Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free, a demo, or
otherwise..... >>
Notice the word PRODUCT! It is very clear what this means. Referring to a
"demo" clearly defines product as a physical entity and not a service. This
is consistent with ""The purpose of the group will be to provide technical
help....." Promoting a product is not providing technical help.
<< I don't doubt that - however, what you have described is advertising.>>
Microsoft's Rules Of Conduct state, " We ask that you refrain from posting
advertisements or solicitations that do not pertain directly to the intended
use and purpose of the newsgroup ...." Microsoft clearly delineates between
advertisements and solicitations. "* Advertising of any kind, even if the
product is free, a demo, or otherwise ...." is again consistent with
Microsoft. "Contact me if you would like my help" promotes no product; it is
a solicitation and it conforms completely with the charter of the newsgroup,
"The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who
use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to
create complex databases."
Finally, one can not wonder what is the real motivation for complaining
about "Contact me if you would like my help". Recently the following three
posts appeared in the newsgroup:
World First Cancer Immune Booster
International Moitivation Survey
New Affiliate Program 80% Commission
and not a one of the "MVPs" who responded in this thread responded to any of
those three posts. Those three posts were obviously not related to MS Access
and therefore obviously in violation of the Rules of Conduct yet no MVP
responded to any of them.
Steve
PC Datasheet
"Tim Marshall" <TI****@PurpleP andaChasers.Moe rtherium> wrote in message
news:d3******** **@coranto.ucs. mun.ca... PC Datasheet wrote:
> This is a direct quote from http://www.mvps.org/access/netiquette.htm:
> "The purpose of the group will be to provide technical help to people who > use Access to create simple databases as well as to people who use VBA to > create complex databases."
But it also says:
"The following are specifically forbidden in the CDMA newsgroup:
"* Advertising of any kind, even if the product is free, a demo, or
otherwise. You may answer a question with a link to a commercial site
which pertains to the question. You may also add a phrase and/or link in
your signature."
> When it takes more than a simple newsgroup paragraph, I offer the poster the > option to consider hiring me.
And that is advertising which is in clear violation of the FAQ and
newsgroup charter.
> I don't gouge my customers, my fees are very
> reasonable,
I don't doubt that - however, what you have described is advertising.
The FAQ, however, offers you a way out of these clear violations.
--
Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^ "What's UP, Dittoooooo?" - Ditto
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