form border style question

[Colin McGuire]

Hi, is there a way to show a form without a titlebar (and therefore no
control box/minimize box/title etc) but still have it appear looking
like 3D?

The property FormBorderStyle to None - this gives no titlebar etc but
the form borders don't look 3D.

In case I haven't explained what I want well, I want a form that looks
like a button with no text (ie a form with the lovely 3D borders but
no titlebar etc).

Thank you
Colin

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* co***********@lycos.co.uk (Colin McGuire) scripsit:

Hi, is there a way to show a form without a titlebar (and therefore no
control box/minimize box/title etc) but still have it appear looking
like 3D?

The property FormBorderStyle to None - this gives no titlebar etc but
the form borders don't look 3D.

In case I haven't explained what I want well, I want a form that looks
like a button with no text (ie a form with the lovely 3D borders but
no titlebar etc).

Try to set its 'Text' property to "" and its 'ControlBox' property to 'False'.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Cor]

Hi Collin,

A co production from HKW, Fergus and Cor
You have to paste this in a form, with one button on it.
\\\
Private Sub Form1_Load( _
ByVal sender As System.Object, _
ByVal e As System.EventArgs _
) Handles MyBase.Load
Dim g As New System.Drawing.Drawing2D.GraphicsPath()
g.AddString( _
"m", _
System.Drawing.FontFamily.GenericSansSerif, _
System.Drawing.FontStyle.Bold, _
100, _
New Point(0, 0), _
System.Drawing.StringFormat.GenericDefault _
)
Me.BackColor = Color.Red
Me.Region = New System.Drawing.Region(g)
g.dispose
End Sub
///
I hope this helps a little bit?
Cor

[Cor]

Hi Colin,

I did send a very old one, this is the coproduction HKW,Fergus,Cor.
So one form with a button on it.
\\\
Private Sub Form1_Load(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As
System.EventArgs) Handles MyBase.Load
Dim g As New System.Drawing.Drawing2D.GraphicsPath
g.AddString( _
"Colin", _
System.Drawing.FontFamily.GenericSansSerif, _
System.Drawing.FontStyle.Bold, _
300, _
New Point(0, 0), _
System.Drawing.StringFormat.GenericDefault _
)
Me.BackColor = Color.Red
Me.Region = New System.Drawing.Region(g)
g.Dispose()
Me.AutoScaleBaseSize = New System.Drawing.Size(0, 0)
Me.ClientSize = New System.Drawing.Size(800, 800)
Button1.BackColor = System.Drawing.SystemColors.ActiveCaptionText
Button1.ForeColor = System.Drawing.Color.Red
Button1.Location = New System.Drawing.Point(70, 140)
Button1.Size = New System.Drawing.Size(20, 20)
Button1.Text = "X"
End Sub
Private Sub Button1_Click(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As
System.EventArgs) Handles Button1.Click
Me.Close()
End Sub
///
I hope this helps
Cor

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Colin,

I know it's not what you asked, but ...

As an alternative, lookswise, trying putting a Panel on that no border
form and set its Dock to Fill and its Border to 3D. This gives you an inlaid
area which looks pretty cool.

Regards,
Fergus

[Colin McGuire]

So obvious. Thank you all - again!
Colin
hi***************@gmx.at (Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]) wrote in message news:<OW**************@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...

* co***********@lycos.co.uk (Colin McGuire) scripsit:

Hi, is there a way to show a form without a titlebar (and therefore no
control box/minimize box/title etc) but still have it appear looking
like 3D?

The property FormBorderStyle to None - this gives no titlebar etc but
the form borders don't look 3D.

In case I haven't explained what I want well, I want a form that looks
like a button with no text (ie a form with the lovely 3D borders but
no titlebar etc).

Try to set its 'Text' property to "" and its 'ControlBox' property to 'False'.

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:

As an alternative, lookswise, trying putting a Panel on that no border
form and set its Dock to Fill and its Border to 3D. This gives you an inlaid
area which looks pretty cool.

IMO this looks as ugly as your quoting...

;-)

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Cor]

????

IMO this looks as ugly as your quoting...

What is it with that quoting, the original thread is to long for me to
follow it?

I remember me there was something with Nick about quoting, but this is
something different and that from Nick I don't know anymore.

(I saw I almost started the longest thread in the VB German group, happenly
there was one before about "the resource pack" that was even longer.

And Armin when you see this, good that you pointed me again on my favorite
writing mistake now and know.)

Cor

[Michael Kremser]

*Cor* tippselte am *20.10.2003 15:01* MESZ:

(I saw I almost started the longest thread in the VB German group, happenly
there was one before about "the resource pack" that was even longer.

Of course, because 98% of the postings are off-topic.

Best regards,

Michael

--
Michael Kremser
http://great.dynu.com/

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

|| IMO this looks as ugly as your quoting...
||
|| ;-)

;-)

Regards,
Fergus

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:
[ugly quoted text]

ROFL

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

~~ * "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:
~~ [ugly quoted text]

ROFL, too!

Regards,
Fergus

[Cor]

Hi Michael,

Did you see Herfried has a problem with his GNU

(I saw I almost started the longest thread in the VB German group, happenly there was one before about "the resource pack" that was even longer.

Of course, because 98% of the postings are off-topic.

Mostly Herfried, watches all threads, but this one he could not see it seems

:-))

Cor

[Michael Kremser]

*Cor* tippselte am *21.10.2003 12:18* MESZ:

Did you see Herfried has a problem with his GNU
What do you mean by that?
Mostly Herfried, watches all threads, but this one he could not see it seems

Why do you think that?

Best regards,

Michael

--
Michael Kremser
http://great.dynu.com/

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:
[Ugly quoted text]

EOT

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Cor]

Hi Michael,

Did you see Herfried has a problem with his GNU

The newstreader from Herfried, that has the name something like GNU, I hope
it is wrong, because I know Herfried, can not resist answering that.

But before you understand it wrong, Herfried is very appreciated in this
newsgroup.

:-)

Cor

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Michael,

|| > Did you see Herfried has a problem with his GNU
||
|| What do you mean by that?
||
|| > Mostly Herfried, watches all threads, but this one he could
|| not see it seems
||
|| Why do you think that?

Cor is referring to the style of quoting that I use above - indentation
plus || plus a space. In Herfried's gnus newsreader, || apparent represents a
smiley of some sort! Herfried also doesn't care for the way that I indent the
text that I've quoted. To me it is obvious that the block above is not me
talking but is a quoted from others. Herfried disagreees. He says that
newsreaders can't 'understand' it and that I must use '>' only. I counter that
|| is more readable by people - to hell with the newsreaders. He says ....
It's been an ongoing OT debate between the two of us.

Herfried, despite saying that gnus is the Best Newsreader in the World,
sometimes fails to fetch or receive mesages.

Thanks for adding your 1% to the OT posts - life would be more productive
without them - but sooo booooring, yawn. ;-))

Regards,
Fergus

[Fergus Cooney]

Und Ich

[Michael Kremser]

*Fergus Cooney* tippselte am *21.10.2003 16:08* MESZ:

Cor is referring to the style of quoting that I use above - indentation
plus || plus a space. In Herfried's gnus newsreader, || apparent represents a
smiley of some sort! Herfried also doesn't care for the way that I indent the
text that I've quoted. To me it is obvious that the block above is not me
talking but is a quoted from others. Herfried disagreees. He says that
newsreaders can't 'understand' it and that I must use '>' only. I counter that
|| is more readable by people - to hell with the newsreaders. He says ....
It's been an ongoing OT debate between the two of us.
Well, it's the first time that I agree with Herfried. Using ">" as the
introduction of a quoted line is a standard and every news reader and
person understands it as it. Also using two charachters, as you do with
"||" is IMHO very unlogic. It's no question of whether this looks better
or not, it's a matter of standard compliance!
Herfried, despite saying that gnus is the Best Newsreader in the World,
sometimes fails to fetch or receive mesages.
*g* For Herfried, this is an arugment. He always states, that the
software he's using is the best in the world, even if it's complete
scrap, like Outlook Express and Internet Explorer.
Thanks for adding your 1% to the OT posts - life would be more productive
without them - but sooo booooring, yawn. ;-))

As there is no group microsoft.public.software.war or something similar,
it's not so important which newsgroup is used for that.

Best regards,

Michael

--
Michael Kremser
http://great.dynu.com/

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Michael,

~~ using two charachters, as you do with "||" is IMHO very unlogic

There's a logic in it, Spock, but not one that you could understand.

;-))

Regards,
Bones

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:

~~ using two charachters, as you do with "||" is IMHO very unlogic

There's a logic in it, Spock, but not one that you could understand.

No computer will be able to understand that logic and display the post properly.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Cor" <no*@non.com> scripsit:

Did you see Herfried has a problem with his GNU

The newstreader from Herfried, that has the name something like GNU, I hope

Its name is gnus.
it is wrong, because I know Herfried, can not resist answering that.
ROFL
But before you understand it wrong, Herfried is very appreciated in this
newsgroup.

Thanks! Nice to hear that.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* Michael Kremser <us****************@aon.at> scripsit:

Did you see Herfried has a problem with his GNU

What do you mean by that?

ROFL. You use the really bad Mozilla newsclient and claim that it's the
best news client. I use gnus or OE...

Mostly Herfried, watches all threads, but this one he could

not see it seems

Why do you think that?

I read every thread in this group except threads with bad quotations
(written by Fergus).

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Fergus Cooney]

Damn Vulcans!

This isn't about or for computers.

Pah!

Bones

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

~~ [Corrupted quotation removed]

ROFL

Actually that last post was a trap - to see whether you really do skip the
posts with my bad quotations. But you answered it even with my beautiful
quotation marks! Gotcha!!

Regards,
Fergus

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:
[Corrupted Quotes removed (now automatically removed by my intelligent newsreader]

Actually that last post was a trap - to see whether you really do skip the
posts with my bad quotations. But you answered it even with my beautiful
quotation marks! Gotcha!!

ROFL

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

~;-)~ [Corrupted Quotes removed
~;-)~ (now automatically removed
~;-)~ by my intelligent newsreader]

Excellent! Now the problem's gone away. ;-)

Regards,
Fergus

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:
[Corrupted Quotes removed]

Excellent! Now the problem's gone away. ;-)

If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Michael Kremser]

*Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]* tippselte am *22.10.2003 20:22* MESZ:

If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

If I were you, I'd wish I were myself.

*ggg*

Best regards,

Michael

--
Michael Kremser
http://great.dynu.com/

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* Michael Kremser <us****************@aon.at> scripsit:

If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

If I were you, I'd wish I were myself.

ROFL

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Cor]

>

If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

Happenly you are not him, would cost me a lot of fun, two different ones is
better.

:-))

Cor

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Cor" <no*@non.com> scripsit:

If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

Happenly you are not him, would cost me a lot of fun, two different ones is
better.

ROFL

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Fergus Cooney]

ROFL

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:

ROFL

No, bad quotes are _not_ funny.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

Oh yeah?!! Wotchoo gonna do abaht it??

You and whose army??

Regards,
Fergus

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

|| If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

If you were me, <why> would you stop creating "buggy" posts?

Regards,
Fergus

[Fergus Cooney]

Sorry Vatti.

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:

Sorry Vatti.

ROFLM*O

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:

If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

If you were me, <why> would you stop creating "buggy" posts?

Because I would enable other people to read them.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

|| > || If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.
|| >
|| > If you were me, <why> would you stop creating "buggy" posts?
||
|| Because I would enable other people to read them.

It should be obvious to anybody looking at the quoted text above, even you
Herfried, that there are two participants in the conversation - one using '||'
and the other using '>'.

For the last time. People are not computers. People have extremely
sophisticated pattern handing abilities. They can distinguish a block of
quoted 'something' because of its <difference> from everything else -
regardless, almost, of what it is - so long as there is something that <makes>
it different. In fact - the more different the marker is, the more obvious it
is to people. [Although it helps if it's different within a given style. And
I've explained several times what that style is]

If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

If you were me, <why> would you stop creating "buggy" posts?

Because I would enable other people to read them.

I suggest that the above is not quite as clear as the first version. I say
this <because> the same character is used. The more levels of quoting there
are, the more this would be apparent. It's a convention that reduces
efficiency.

It would seem that current newsreaders are badly programmed. They don't
even <try> to do pattern matching. I have <no sympathy> with this. The
solution is for developers to write better newsreaders, not for everyone to
rigidly stick to a single character.

Someone today used little square boxes to do his quoting. I found it
extremely obvious. Much better, in fact, than the visually airy '>' which may
be a standard, but it's one that is past its time.

People can read and discern patterns. Computers can't*. People are not
computers. People are not programs. People are much, much more than either of
these. Please don't tell me that people have difficulties that I know they
don't. It makes you sound stupid. Fortunately there's plenty of evidence that
you aren't, but you <do> sound as if that photo that I've seen of you was
taken about 30 or 40 years ago. ;-))

The day I get a (truthful) post from someone who says "I couldn't read
your posts because of those vertical lines down the left" - <that's> the day
when I give up using '||' - provided that I believe them. But that's unlikely
on all accounts.

By all means moan about how <newsreaders> have problems. I agree - they
are incredibly stupid in this regard - having not been programmed to recognise
a very simple pattern - and I suggest that the developers should address this
easily handled issue.

This is the important bit.

Your arguments have been sadly based on refutation more than infomation.
There's little if any psychological argument for the '>' convention. It is a
computer thing not a people thing. You haven't even considered a compromise -
it's has to be '>'.

I did offer to change my style of quoting. Three times I asked for your
opinion and you didn't answer. I asked you to send me an image showing me how
it looked to you. You may have sent it but you didn't tell me that it hadn't
got through. Someone else informed me that my email wasn't working. You
didn't. When I found out, I gave you an alternative email address. You didn't
send the image. You tell me that your gnus reader has problems. I went to the
gnus site so that I could install it and check it out. The site is so badly
designed that a visitor <cannot> download and install the software. I asked
for your help several times in different ways. This was just so that I could
check this newsreader problem out for myself. You refused to answer. Your last
response was to tell me that it would take too long to explain. You didn't
even ask me what I wanted to know. The question was simple - which binary do I
download?

I'm sorry, Herfried. It seems that all along you have done very little to
persuade me and, especially, even less to help me help you.

I will not be changing my quoting pattern, unless it's for variety.

Regards,
Fergus

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:

For the last time. People are not computers. People have extremely
People are not computers so they use a newsreader that is able to
display the quoted text with different colors depending on the user
preferences to make it better readable to the user _reading_ the post.
sophisticated pattern handing abilities. They can distinguish a block of
quoted 'something' because of its <difference> from everything else -
regardless, almost, of what it is - so long as there is something that <makes>
it different. In fact - the more different the marker is, the more obvious it
is to people. [Although it helps if it's different within a given style. And
I've explained several times what that style is]
">" is _logical_ markup that can be transformed to physical markup
depending on the user's preferences. By using non-standard quoting
characters, the post won't fit the reader's needs.

>>> If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.
>>
>> If you were me, <why> would you stop creating "buggy" posts?

>
> Because I would enable other people to read them.

I suggest that the above is not quite as clear as the first version. I say
this <because> the same character is used. The more levels of quoting there

It's _very_ clear, because my newsreader displays your text in dark red
and my text in dark blue.
are, the more this would be apparent. It's a convention that reduces
efficiency.
No, it increases efficiency because it offers the possibility to do
formatting on the reader's side.
It would seem that current newsreaders are badly programmed. They don't
even <try> to do pattern matching. I have <no sympathy> with this. The
solution is for developers to write better newsreaders, not for everyone to
rigidly stick to a single character.

That's impossible with your quoting style. It's not possible to detect
the quoting level.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Herfried,

|| People are not computers so they use a newsreader that
|| is able to display the quoted text with different colors

No Herfried.. Absolute statements make me think you don't know how to
argue.

<Some> people use such newsreaders. Many people (maybe even most) use what
the Great One has provided (that's OE). This does <not> do colour. Another
great number of people access newsgroups through web sites. These do not do
colour either - unless the posting was in Html in the first place. You moan
about people posting Html as well. OE has no trouble with this nor do the web
sites.

So. <Some> people use these colour coding newsreaders.
How many people are you actually talking about in percentage terms? In the
browser world it's 95%+ for IE, if not higher. How much of the newsreader
market has OE got, versus gnus and other colour coders? How much do the web
sites take up?
|| ">" is _logical_ markup that can be transformed to physical markup
|| depending on the user's preferences

Are you able to agree that this restriction to a single character is a
limitation?

Are you able to agree that a general pattern can be specified and that
newsreaders <could> detect this pattern (but don't at present)?

Can you agree that it would be useful if newsreaders <could> treat my
quoting as 'logical markup'?
|| > I suggest that the above [not shown] is not quite as clear as the
|| > first version. I say this <because> the same character is used.
||
|| It's _very_ clear, because my newsreader displays your text in dark red
|| and my text in dark blue.

Ok, it's clearer <to you> because you have a colour coder. Could you look
at my post in OE's black and white and truthfully say the same? Would <all>
other people agree. If not, how many would and wouldn't? No, I can't give
numbers either, but I know the principles of perception on which my statements
are based and I would expect the majority to agree.
There was a lot of my previous post that you didn't respond to. I'm
wondering whether that was because you reluctantly had to agree and couldn't
bring yourself to say so.
|| > It would seem that current newsreaders are badly programmed.
|| > They don't even <try> to do pattern matching.
||
|| That's impossible with your quoting style. It's not possible to
|| detect the quoting level.

Hmm, there must be something wrong - we <do> agree on something.. ;-)
I wonder how much danger there is of you at least partially say yes to any
of the questions above. ;-))

Regards,
Fergus

[Cor]

Hi Herfried and Fergus,

In past people have made code sets for this,

It started with EBC Extended Binary Coded
Then we got ASCI
I lost the track on EBC and de extended version.

But in ASCI we got the 8 bit so versions which did not exist but where code
sets all different because of the cultures they where used in.

Now we have the 16 bit unicode.

Somewhere there has to be the error.

You both know enough for it to do it without my advices in that but both
know the answers now I think?

Cor

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

* "Fergus Cooney" <fi*****@post.com> scripsit:

Are you able to agree that this restriction to a single character is a
limitation?
No. It's not a restriction. It makes everything easier.
Are you able to agree that a general pattern can be specified and that
newsreaders <could> detect this pattern (but don't at present)?
That doesn't make any sense. There is one character (">") that is used
to specify the quoting level.
Can you agree that it would be useful if newsreaders <could> treat my
quoting as 'logical markup'?
It would be useful but most won't be able to do that. How should a
newsreader know if "||" adds one or two levels?
There was a lot of my previous post that you didn't respond to. I'm
wondering whether that was because you reluctantly had to agree and couldn't
bring yourself to say so.

I didn't respond because I know you wouldn't have understood it. You
currently don't even understand _why_ ">" is preferred.

--
Herfried K. Wagner
MVP · VB Classic, VB.NET
<http://www.mvps.org/dotnet>

[Michael Kremser]

*Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]* tippselte am *22.10.2003 22:08* MESZ:

If I were you I would stop creating "buggy" posts.

If you were me, <why> would you stop creating "buggy" posts?

Because I would enable other people to read them.

Even the quoting from Fergus looks terrible IMO, it's still readable.

Best regards,

Micheal

--
Michael Kremser
http://great.dynu.com/

[Michael Kremser]

*Fergus Cooney* tippselte am *23.10.2003 03:36* MESZ:

<Some> people use such newsreaders. Many people (maybe even most) use what
the Great One has provided (that's OE). This does <not> do colour. Another

That's wrong. OE doesn't even have an average market share of 50%, it's
much lower. The most-used newsreaders are slrn, gnus, tin and so on.

However, your usage of "[TAB]||" for quoting is a violation against
good, approved rules and confuses news readers.

Best regards,

Michael

--
Michael Kremser
http://great.dynu.com/

[Michael Kremser]

*Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]* tippselte am *23.10.2003 09:41* MESZ:

No. It's not a restriction. It makes everything easier.

Let's say it's a rule, and the reasons for rules are to make life
easier. And some rules must be applied by a person, no matter whether
you like it or not. For example, I don't like the rule that in usenet
you must not use HTML postings, but it's a rule and therefore I must
accept it, aslong I want to use the usenet. So, Fergus _shall_ IMO
accept the rule that ">" is the default quoting sign and not "||" which
is confusing, as you stated, because the quoting level is not logical
comprehensible.

Best regards,

Michael

--
Michael Kremser
http://great.dynu.com/

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Michael,

|| > Many people (maybe even most) use what
|| > the Great One has provided (that's OE).
||
|| That's wrong.

I was venturing a qualified opinion. I didn't state a fact.

|| OE doesn't even have an average market share of 50%, it's much lower.
|| The most-used newsreaders are slrn, gnus, tin and so on.

Thank you. Where did you get this number from? I would have looked it up
if I had known where to go.

Regards,
Fergus

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Michael,

And the voting for looks is
Two against, one for.

And the voting for readability is
Two for, one against.

The sample size is still too low, but three is better than two.

Anyone else? ;-)

Regards,
Fergus

ps. Show me see the style of your code - then I can see whether to value your
opinion, lol! ;-)

pps Joke. I don't need to see it.

[Fergus Cooney]

Hi Michael,

|| And some rules must be applied by a person, no matter
|| whether you like it or not

Absolute language, such as 'must' is often inappropriate. Because it's not
correct, it has a tendency to weaken an argument. Using 'really ought to' or
some phrase that is as strong as you can make it - without being an
imperative - makes your opinion more palatable.

Noite that is <is> only an opinion. The only laws and rules that <must> be
applied are the physical ones where you <cannot> do anything different -
natural laws.

<All> man-made laws and rules may be broken by anybody - that is the
choice of free will. Of course, those responsible for upholding these rules
and laws may then respond in some punitive manner. This is to <encourage>
people (in general) to keep to the rules - it still cannot <force> them to.

Fortunately, this '>' convention isn't upheld by any body of people who
will do unpleasant things to me.

If you use Html, who is going to stop you using usenet? Is there someone
on the lookout with powers to bar you ?
|| Fergus _shall_ IMO accept

Absolute language again. Fergus shall not.

|| the rule that ">" is

follow the convention (not rule)

|| the default quoting sign.

even though it is <recommended>

|| and not "||" which is confusing ..because the
|| quoting level is not logical comprehensible.

See my thoughts about the low level of intelligence in newsreaders.

Regards,
Fergus