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Structure vs Class Objects

If I have a structure like;

Public Structure myStructureDef
Public b() as Byte
Public t as String
End Structure

If I pass this structure, will the values in the array b be stored on the
stack or will just a pointer to the array be stored on the stack? I am
trying to decide whether to use Structures or Pointers. I know that M'soft
recommends to use a class if the length is over about 16 bytes but does this
include all the array elements or just pointers to the array?
--
Dennis in Houston
Apr 2 '06 #1
14 1804
Arrays and strings are both reference types, so they'll be allocated on the
GC heap. I think the 16 byte rule is just one guideline aimed at getting you
to consider whether you really want value type or reference type semantics.
E.g. if you pass myStructureDef to a method, you'll be passing a copy, which
includes a copy of the array and the string. If you assign one instance to
another, again you'll be assigning a copy rather than having both instances
reference the same data. If you find yourself passing myStructureDef
arguments ByRef alot then you should really consider using a reference type
instead. You should also think about how often myStructureDef will be boxed
in your core scenarios.

--
Kevin Westhead

"Dennis" <De****@discuss ions.microsoft. com> wrote in message
news:15******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
If I have a structure like;

Public Structure myStructureDef
Public b() as Byte
Public t as String
End Structure

If I pass this structure, will the values in the array b be stored on the
stack or will just a pointer to the array be stored on the stack? I am
trying to decide whether to use Structures or Pointers. I know that
M'soft
recommends to use a class if the length is over about 16 bytes but does
this
include all the array elements or just pointers to the array?
--
Dennis in Houston

Apr 2 '06 #2
A reasoned response.

--
( OHM ) - One Handed Man
AKA Terry Burns - http://TrainingOn.net

"Kevin Westhead" <ma***********@ nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:uz******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP15.phx.gbl...
Arrays and strings are both reference types, so they'll be allocated on
the GC heap. I think the 16 byte rule is just one guideline aimed at
getting you to consider whether you really want value type or reference
type semantics. E.g. if you pass myStructureDef to a method, you'll be
passing a copy, which includes a copy of the array and the string. If you
assign one instance to another, again you'll be assigning a copy rather
than having both instances reference the same data. If you find yourself
passing myStructureDef arguments ByRef alot then you should really
consider using a reference type instead. You should also think about how
often myStructureDef will be boxed in your core scenarios.

--
Kevin Westhead

"Dennis" <De****@discuss ions.microsoft. com> wrote in message
news:15******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
If I have a structure like;

Public Structure myStructureDef
Public b() as Byte
Public t as String
End Structure

If I pass this structure, will the values in the array b be stored on the
stack or will just a pointer to the array be stored on the stack? I am
trying to decide whether to use Structures or Pointers. I know that
M'soft
recommends to use a class if the length is over about 16 bytes but does
this
include all the array elements or just pointers to the array?
--
Dennis in Houston


Apr 2 '06 #3
Thanks for your clarification. Since I'm using very large arrays, I think I
will use Classses to avoid eating up memory even though I will have to make
several changes in my application.
--
Dennis in Houston
"Kevin Westhead" wrote:
Arrays and strings are both reference types, so they'll be allocated on the
GC heap. I think the 16 byte rule is just one guideline aimed at getting you
to consider whether you really want value type or reference type semantics.
E.g. if you pass myStructureDef to a method, you'll be passing a copy, which
includes a copy of the array and the string. If you assign one instance to
another, again you'll be assigning a copy rather than having both instances
reference the same data. If you find yourself passing myStructureDef
arguments ByRef alot then you should really consider using a reference type
instead. You should also think about how often myStructureDef will be boxed
in your core scenarios.

--
Kevin Westhead

"Dennis" <De****@discuss ions.microsoft. com> wrote in message
news:15******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
If I have a structure like;

Public Structure myStructureDef
Public b() as Byte
Public t as String
End Structure

If I pass this structure, will the values in the array b be stored on the
stack or will just a pointer to the array be stored on the stack? I am
trying to decide whether to use Structures or Pointers. I know that
M'soft
recommends to use a class if the length is over about 16 bytes but does
this
include all the array elements or just pointers to the array?
--
Dennis in Houston


Apr 2 '06 #4
Dennis,

Is thinking about 16 Bytes really from this time.

Cor

"Dennis" <De****@discuss ions.microsoft. com> schreef in bericht
news:15******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
If I have a structure like;

Public Structure myStructureDef
Public b() as Byte
Public t as String
End Structure

If I pass this structure, will the values in the array b be stored on the
stack or will just a pointer to the array be stored on the stack? I am
trying to decide whether to use Structures or Pointers. I know that
M'soft
recommends to use a class if the length is over about 16 bytes but does
this
include all the array elements or just pointers to the array?
--
Dennis in Houston

Apr 2 '06 #5
Kevin,
| E.g. if you pass myStructureDef to a method, you'll be passing a copy,
which
| includes a copy of the array and the string.
As you stated, Arrays & Strings are reference types. The myStructureDef
structure contains a reference to the actual objects on the heap. Not a copy
of the actual object!

If you pass myStructureDef to a method you will be passing a copy of the
structure, which includes a copy of the *references* to the array & the
string objects. There will only be a single instance of the array & string
object on the heap!

Because Strings are immutable its hard to notice a difference. However
Arrays & most other reference types are mutable, consider the following:

Public Structure myStructureDef
Public i As Integer
Public b() As Byte
Public t As String
End Structure

Private Sub Something(ByVal parameter As myStructureDef)
parameter.i = 2
parameter.b(0) = 5
parameter.b(1) = 6
parameter.b(2) = 7
End Sub

Dim local As myStructureDef
local.b = New Byte() {1, 2, 3}
local.t = "Hello"
Something(local )

"parameter" will be a copy of the "local" myStructureDef, parameter.i is
inline in the structure as its a value type, so changing parameter.i does
not change local.i. However the array that parameter.b references is the
same array that local.b references, so changing an element of the array
"parameter. b(0) = 5" also changes "local.i". However changing the reference
itself, will change the reference itself "parameter. b = New Byte() {4, 5,
6}" will create a new array object on the heap, replacing the reference that
"parameter. b" is...
--
Hope this helps
Jay [MVP - Outlook]
..NET Application Architect, Enthusiast, & Evangelist
T.S. Bradley - http://www.tsbradley.net
"Kevin Westhead" <ma***********@ nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:uz******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP15.phx.gbl...
| Arrays and strings are both reference types, so they'll be allocated on
the
| GC heap. I think the 16 byte rule is just one guideline aimed at getting
you
| to consider whether you really want value type or reference type
semantics.
| E.g. if you pass myStructureDef to a method, you'll be passing a copy,
which
| includes a copy of the array and the string. If you assign one instance to
| another, again you'll be assigning a copy rather than having both
instances
| reference the same data. If you find yourself passing myStructureDef
| arguments ByRef alot then you should really consider using a reference
type
| instead. You should also think about how often myStructureDef will be
boxed
| in your core scenarios.
|
| --
| Kevin Westhead
|
| "Dennis" <De****@discuss ions.microsoft. com> wrote in message
| news:15******** *************** ***********@mic rosoft.com...
| > If I have a structure like;
| >
| > Public Structure myStructureDef
| > Public b() as Byte
| > Public t as String
| > End Structure
| >
| > If I pass this structure, will the values in the array b be stored on
the
| > stack or will just a pointer to the array be stored on the stack? I am
| > trying to decide whether to use Structures or Pointers. I know that
| > M'soft
| > recommends to use a class if the length is over about 16 bytes but does
| > this
| > include all the array elements or just pointers to the array?
| > --
| > Dennis in Houston
|
|
Apr 2 '06 #6
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************ @planet.nl> schrieb:
Is thinking about 16 Bytes really from this time.


It's a Microsoft recommendation that definitely makes sense.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>
Apr 2 '06 #7
> E.g. if you pass myStructureDef to a method, you'll be passing a copy, which
includes a copy of the array and the string. If you assign one instance to
another, again you'll be assigning a copy rather than having both instances
reference the same data.


What? I agree that if you pass a myStructureDef to a method, you will pass
a copy of the structure, but it will contain a copy of a reference to b. A
new reference to b will be created, not a new copy of the entire array b as
is imiplied by your phrase "which includes a copy of the array and the
string". Similarly, if you assign one instance of myStructureDef to another,
you will have two references to the same b array.

Consider this:

Public Sub Test(ByVal z As myStructureDef)
z.b(1) = CByte(z.b(1) + 1)
z.t &= "x"
End Sub

Dim z, w As myStructureDef
ReDim z.b(3)
z.t = "aaa"
Test(z)
w = z
Test(z)

At the end of these operations, z.b(1) and w.b(1) are both 2 because both z
and w refer to the same array object. On the other hand, because strings are
immutable, and becuase z was passed by value to Test(), z.t and w.t are both
their original value, namely "aaa". Change the sub to byref, and the
behavior of b() will be unchanged, but the behavior of t will be different.

Apr 2 '06 #8
Herfried,

It's a Microsoft recommendation that definitely makes sense.

Do you have a real world example for me?
(With as it is possible the advantages in figers of whole seconds and parts
of 1Mb memory.)

All figurs below this quantaties has no sense because I can also not have
influence if the framework 2.1 will be not 1Mb larger than the current
version.

Cor
Apr 2 '06 #9
"Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <no************ @planet.nl> schrieb:
It's a Microsoft recommendation that definitely makes sense.


Do you have a real world example for me?


Sorry, but there must be a set of criteria to base the decision whether to
use classes or structures on. Otherwise some people would only use
structures and others would never use structures. In other words, that's
the reason why 'Point' is a structure and 'Form' isn't.

--
M S Herfried K. Wagner
M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
V B <URL:http://classicvb.org/petition/>

Apr 2 '06 #10

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