Hi Everyone!
I'm new to .NET but I'm a experienced VB programmer (since VB 4) and wanting
to move to VB.NET from VB 6.
But as I read about .NET, I came across that compiled VB.NET code is stored
in MSIL (instead of binary) which is easily decryptable by the "hackers" to
reverse engineer your VB.NET application.
Is this true?
Thanks in advance!
Don
20  1606 
* "Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > scripsit: I'm new to .NET but I'm a experienced VB programmer (since VB 4) and wanting
to move to VB.NET from VB 6.
But as I read about .NET, I came across that compiled VB.NET code is stored
in MSIL (instead of binary) which is easily decryptable by the "hackers" to
reverse engineer your VB.NET application.
Is this true?
Yes.
Nevertheless, you can make their work harder by obfuscating the
code. You will find some links here:
<URL:http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_dotnet.html# oo_dotnet_utili ties_tools>
Notice that VS.NET 2003 includes the Light Version of Preemptive's
obfuscator.
BTW: Do you really think that somebody wants to have a look at
the code of /your/ application? What I want to say: Reverse
Engineering often doesn't make much sense, it's "interestin g" if there
are some complicated algorithms implemented, but not for most normal
apps.
--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
Thanks for the links Herfried,
Yes, I do think when you are developing a software with your own unique
aglorithm (or even simple applications) competitors can just look up your
code and get the idea where you've scarificied hours and hours of good night
sleep to get the aglorithm and get the app up and running. This is also the
case for simple applications. That's something I don't want :P and I'm sure
most developers will agree with me.
Do you think .NET will become binary in the future?
Don
P.S. This VB.NET newsgroup is damn fast!!! I love it!
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi************ ***@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:2h******** ****@uni-berlin.de... * "Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > scripsit: I'm new to .NET but I'm a experienced VB programmer (since VB 4) and
wanting to move to VB.NET from VB 6.
But as I read about .NET, I came across that compiled VB.NET code is
stored in MSIL (instead of binary) which is easily decryptable by the "hackers"
to reverse engineer your VB.NET application.
Is this true?
Yes.
Nevertheless, you can make their work harder by obfuscating the
code. You will find some links here:
<URL:http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_dotnet.html# oo_dotnet_utili ties_tools>
Notice that VS.NET 2003 includes the Light Version of Preemptive's
obfuscator.
BTW: Do you really think that somebody wants to have a look at
the code of /your/ application? What I want to say: Reverse
Engineering often doesn't make much sense, it's "interestin g" if there
are some complicated algorithms implemented, but not for most normal
apps.
--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
* "Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > scripsit: Yes, I do think when you are developing a software with your own unique
aglorithm (or even simple applications) competitors can just look up your
code and get the idea where you've scarificied hours and hours of good night
sleep to get the aglorithm and get the app up and running. This is also the
case for simple applications. That's something I don't want :P and I'm sure
most developers will agree with me.
Do you think .NET will become binary in the future?
No, that's against the concept of .NET. As mentioned before, I would
obfuscate the application, so it's harder to understand the
reconstructed source code.
P.S. This VB.NET newsgroup is damn fast!!! I love it!
A lot of traffic here... ;-).
--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
But we can get the setup to "compile" the app at installation so after that
the app is as secure as a regular executable?
Thanks
Regards
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi************ ***@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:2h******** ****@uni-berlin.de... * "Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > scripsit: Yes, I do think when you are developing a software with your own unique
aglorithm (or even simple applications) competitors can just look up
your code and get the idea where you've scarificied hours and hours of good
night sleep to get the aglorithm and get the app up and running. This is also
the case for simple applications. That's something I don't want :P and I'm
sure most developers will agree with me.
Do you think .NET will become binary in the future?
No, that's against the concept of .NET. As mentioned before, I would
obfuscate the application, so it's harder to understand the
reconstructed source code.
P.S. This VB.NET newsgroup is damn fast!!! I love it!
A lot of traffic here... ;-).
--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
I wanted to follow up with Herfried on this one. He makes a valid point
about the reverse engineering. Would they actually want to? In most cases
code would be reverse engineered, the "hacker" would look at it and be like
"wtf is this?" Why? Because 1, variable names are not retained with most
decompilers (all I'm pretty sure, as it is a tokenized compiler) So, it may
or may not make much sense.
Second of all, people will look at it and be like "well I can do this better
here." Long story short, it doesn't really happen that much. At least from
what I've seen.
I've decompiled programs before, but mainly to debug an existing application
and notify the author. However, I wouldn't recommend writing oh lets say an
encryption algorithm without obfusicating (hell, I would go to a binary
format instead.)
HTH,
CJ'
"Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > wrote in message
news:OJ******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... Thanks for the links Herfried,
Yes, I do think when you are developing a software with your own unique
aglorithm (or even simple applications) competitors can just look up your
code and get the idea where you've scarificied hours and hours of good
night sleep to get the aglorithm and get the app up and running. This is also
the case for simple applications. That's something I don't want :P and I'm
sure most developers will agree with me.
Do you think .NET will become binary in the future?
Don
P.S. This VB.NET newsgroup is damn fast!!! I love it!
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi************ ***@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:2h******** ****@uni-berlin.de... * "Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > scripsit: I'm new to .NET but I'm a experienced VB programmer (since VB 4) and wanting to move to VB.NET from VB 6.
But as I read about .NET, I came across that compiled VB.NET code is stored in MSIL (instead of binary) which is easily decryptable by the
"hackers" to reverse engineer your VB.NET application.
Is this true?
Yes.
Nevertheless, you can make their work harder by obfuscating the
code. You will find some links here:
<URL:http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_dotnet.html# oo_dotnet_utili ties_tools>
Notice that VS.NET 2003 includes the Light Version of Preemptive's
obfuscator.
BTW: Do you really think that somebody wants to have a look at
the code of /your/ application? What I want to say: Reverse
Engineering often doesn't make much sense, it's "interestin g" if there
are some complicated algorithms implemented, but not for most normal
apps.
--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
"Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > schrieb But as I read about .NET, I came across that compiled VB.NET code is
stored in MSIL (instead of binary) which is easily decryptable by the
"hackers" to reverse engineer your VB.NET application.
Is this true?
In addition to Herfried..
I think, if somebody is /really/ interested in your code, he will also
decompile assembler code, so the only 100% safe way is not to distribute the
application.
--
Armin
How to quote and why: http://www.plig.net/nnq/nquote.html http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> In addition to Herfried..
I think, if somebody is /really/ interested in your code, he will also
decompile assembler code, so the only 100% safe way is not to distribute
the application.
Same idea here, are you going to serverside webapplications Armin?
Cor
Don,
You do realize, as Armin stated, that any one who wanted to get your code,
will!
Independent of if it is written in ASM, C++, VB4, VB6, VB.NET or C#!
All computer languages have tools available that can reverse engineer them,
included compiled programs.
I don't have the link handy, my understanding is that the question is not so
much that we need to compile to binary machine code (which is easily
de-compiled or dis-assembled anyway). But the need is for digital
certificates & encryping the assembly, so it cannot be looked by opening the
file, yet can still be looked at to actual execute.
Hope this helps
Jay
"Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > wrote in message
news:OJ******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... Thanks for the links Herfried,
Yes, I do think when you are developing a software with your own unique
aglorithm (or even simple applications) competitors can just look up your
code and get the idea where you've scarificied hours and hours of good
night sleep to get the aglorithm and get the app up and running. This is also
the case for simple applications. That's something I don't want :P and I'm
sure most developers will agree with me.
Do you think .NET will become binary in the future?
Don
P.S. This VB.NET newsgroup is damn fast!!! I love it!
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi************ ***@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:2h******** ****@uni-berlin.de... * "Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > scripsit: I'm new to .NET but I'm a experienced VB programmer (since VB 4) and wanting to move to VB.NET from VB 6.
But as I read about .NET, I came across that compiled VB.NET code is stored in MSIL (instead of binary) which is easily decryptable by the
"hackers" to reverse engineer your VB.NET application.
Is this true?
Yes.
Nevertheless, you can make their work harder by obfuscating the
code. You will find some links here:
<URL:http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_dotnet.html# oo_dotnet_utili ties_tools>
Notice that VS.NET 2003 includes the Light Version of Preemptive's
obfuscator.
BTW: Do you really think that somebody wants to have a look at
the code of /your/ application? What I want to say: Reverse
Engineering often doesn't make much sense, it's "interestin g" if there
are some complicated algorithms implemented, but not for most normal
apps.
--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
An idea like that would have to be implemented at kernel level would it not?
Encrypting the compiled program so that it couldn't be read? But then how
would it be decrypted. The OS right?
That would be a pretty interesting implementation. =)
"Jay B. Harlow [MVP - Outlook]" <Ja************ @msn.com> wrote in message
news:Ok******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP09.phx.gbl... Don,
You do realize, as Armin stated, that any one who wanted to get your code,
will!
Independent of if it is written in ASM, C++, VB4, VB6, VB.NET or C#!
All computer languages have tools available that can reverse engineer
them, included compiled programs.
I don't have the link handy, my understanding is that the question is not
so much that we need to compile to binary machine code (which is easily
de-compiled or dis-assembled anyway). But the need is for digital
certificates & encryping the assembly, so it cannot be looked by opening
the file, yet can still be looked at to actual execute.
Hope this helps
Jay
"Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > wrote in message
news:OJ******** ******@TK2MSFTN GP11.phx.gbl... Thanks for the links Herfried,
Yes, I do think when you are developing a software with your own unique
aglorithm (or even simple applications) competitors can just look up
your code and get the idea where you've scarificied hours and hours of good
night sleep to get the aglorithm and get the app up and running. This is also
the case for simple applications. That's something I don't want :P and I'm
sure most developers will agree with me.
Do you think .NET will become binary in the future?
Don
P.S. This VB.NET newsgroup is damn fast!!! I love it!
"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hi************ ***@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:2h******** ****@uni-berlin.de... * "Don Wash" <do*@wash.com > scripsit:
> I'm new to .NET but I'm a experienced VB programmer (since VB 4) and
wanting > to move to VB.NET from VB 6.
>
> But as I read about .NET, I came across that compiled VB.NET code is
stored > in MSIL (instead of binary) which is easily decryptable by the
"hackers" to > reverse engineer your VB.NET application.
>
> Is this true?
Yes.
Nevertheless, you can make their work harder by obfuscating the
code. You will find some links here:
<URL:http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_dotnet.html# oo_dotnet_utili ties_tools>
Notice that VS.NET 2003 includes the Light Version of Preemptive's
obfuscator.
BTW: Do you really think that somebody wants to have a look at
the code of /your/ application? What I want to say: Reverse
Engineering often doesn't make much sense, it's "interestin g" if there
are some complicated algorithms implemented, but not for most normal
apps.
--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>
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