Greetings all,
Some of you may have noticed the launch of the Python Journal a while
back. Due to artistic differences, the journal has now been re-launched
as The Python Papers. It is available under a Creative Commons License,
something we felt was appropriate given its nature. Many here commented
that this was important to them, and it is important to us also.
For a fuller description of what we hope the journal to be, I re-create
my inaugural blog posting at the end of this email, or it can be found
online here: http://pythonpapers.cgpublisher.com/diary
Some of you had a number of specific points to raise, which I can now
answer properly since launching under our own banner.
1.) It takes too many clicks to download.
A) We know, but it's like that to save our server. We will be
publishing to a number of online archives, back-issues may be
back-linkable from those.
2.) Is it free?
A) Yes, as in beer and as in freedom. Creative Commons 2.5
Noncommercial, attribution, share-alike.
3.) Can I have an HTML version?
A) No, we like it pretty.
4.) Why not try (insert favourite thing here)
A) We will. Thanks for the fish.
" Volume 1, Edition 1 makes history
Welcome to The Python Papers. This journal, small though it is,
represents the careful efforts of a small group of Python enthusiasts
who are keen to form a better community in which developers may work.
As Editor-In-Chief, my role is manifold, but my goals are to improve
the level of connectedness of Python developers, and in so doing
improve my own developer experience.
The entire editorial board has put time into making this publication
something which will hopefully lead to a buildup of momentum, fuelled
by the enthusiastic involvement of others who find Python as exciting
as we do.
The current issue contains one academic, peer-reviewed article, one
industry article, and a list of events coming up in Melbourne,
Australia. We would like to expand this list significantly. We offer
our services in organising, collating and reviewing submitted content
such that Python developers around the world may participate in the
creation of something bigger than all of us, for the benefit of all of
us. It may be a small journal, a little thing really, but all are
welcome, and we look forward to getting to know our readers through the
written word.
Please download the first edition, and consider both what it is and
what it might be.
For those of you looking to publish an academic paper as a part of
coursework or for interest's sake alone, we can offer a formal review
process which will meet those guidelines while preserving the goals of
freedom of information and community spirit.
Those who are using Python in their work may like to consider using the
journal as a means of expressing successes or frustrations with either
the language itself or specific applications. We may be able to offer
code reviews and style guides, and would be happy to hear about and
help propagate news of what is happening so that everyone can take an
interest.
For those who would like a reliable source of information, The Python
Papers presents a unique and current view into the state of Python at
large.
To all of you, welcome!
Cheers,
-Tennessee (Editor-In-Chief)"
Nov 21 '06
40  2250 
Tennessee writes:
* If you say LaTex, I'll eat your brain. Or my hat. Unless I'm
seriously underrating it, but I don't think so.
Why? It is a suitable solution to this problem. You can produce
unformatted content, then produce pdf and html pages from it.
-Mike
Yes, it's true that you can't resell copies of The Python Papers for
personal profits, but you may derive from it, reproduce and propagate
it. You're quite right to point it out.
Licenses are too complicated. I don't believe a license exists which
meets the demands of all clients, however should I be wrong on this
count, nothing prevents us from using it in future editions.
Also, copyright is always held by the original authors, so the works
may be relicensed if necessary. We are still working on the copyright
agreement with future authors, however at this stage all we are asking
from them is the same license which covers the journal.
I'm not a true expert in this area, although I'm of course vaguely
aware of the GPL and CC. When choosing a license, the editorial board
was interested in finding something that could be easily assimilated by
authors, and that reflected a general encouragement of the
dissemination of information.
The point about not being able to be re-used by e.g., the Python
documentation website, is a bit of a thorn in my side as I had hoped
that we had chosen something which would allow the information to flow
through the community.
Perhaps people could comment on the following proposition -- if an
organisation is Not for Profit, its dealings are therefore
Noncommercial?
Cheers,
-T
(Editor-In-Chief)
Klaas wrote:
Tennessee writes:
* If you say LaTex, I'll eat your brain. Or my hat. Unless I'm
seriously underrating it, but I don't think so.
Why? It is a suitable solution to this problem. You can produce
unformatted content, then produce pdf and html pages from it.
Sure, LaTeX probably has some way of producing a reasonable layout, or
at least TeX will be able to do it, but by then you're in a sea of
backslashes and eating the factory that makes the hats.
Paul
P.S. I know it's a bit unfair to pour scorn on LaTeX - after all, if I
were writing a long report or paper, I'd probably consider using it
(with LyX, I imagine) - but dealing with layout issues in the W3C
family of technologies (CSS, XSL-FO, anything using the same basic
layout model) is a more attractive predicament, despite the
occasionally bizarre and generally lengthy specifications.
"tl**********@g mail.com" <tl**********@g mail.comwrites:
Yes, it's true that you can't resell copies of The Python Papers for
personal profits, but you may derive from it, reproduce and
propagate it. You're quite right to point it out.
Then please revise the false statement that the publication is "free
as in beer and freedom", or make it true by releasing the documents
under a license that does grant conventional free-software freedoms.
--
\ "They can not take away our self respect if we do not give it |
`\ to them." -- Mahatma Gandhi |
_o__) |
Ben Finney
Ben Finney wrote:
"tl**********@g mail.com" <tl**********@g mail.comwrites:
Yes, it's true that you can't resell copies of The Python Papers for
personal profits, but you may derive from it, reproduce and
propagate it. You're quite right to point it out.
Then please revise the false statement that the publication is "free
as in beer and freedom", or make it true by releasing the documents
under a license that does grant conventional free-software freedoms.
--
\ "They can not take away our self respect if we do not give it |
`\ to them." -- Mahatma Gandhi |
_o__) |
Ben Finney
I thought I just had. In what way does the statement "Yes, it's true
that you can't resell copies of The Python Papers for personal profits,
but you may derive from it, reproduce and propagate it" not provide
such a revision and clarification? Seriously, let me know what exact
statement you feel needs to be made, and I will endorse it accordingly
if it is accurate.
For my part, I don't see that there are ethically serious restrictions
on the freedom of use of the information contained within The Python
Papers. Call it "mostly free" if you like. There's no such thing as
complete freedom of information anyway, and we have done the best we
can.
It's not software. The GPL is not the only license which preserves the
free use of the information containted within and I don't think there's
any contradiction in what we are doing...
We considered releasing under the GPL, but felt that we wanted to
preserve two things which don't seem to be provided by it:
* Rights of the author to attribution as may be expected and desired
of an academic publication. The GPL doesn't seem appropriate for
disseminating the work of a single author.
* Rights of the author to have their words presented
* Opportunity for the author to commercially license their works to
other vendors. By choosing the Share Alike restriction, we have
encouraged the free dissemination of research information without
affecting its commercial use. It seemed to be the best middle ground
between taking a strong ideological position on either side that would
be bound to put people off side. It preserves some rights for the
author while still allowing a substantial amount of free re-use.
* Reputation as an unbiased, financially disinterested group. By
distributing under the license we chose, we hoped to establish our
credentials.
Your email indicates a possible concern that we are doing something
untoward -- this was not at all intended, nor is it true.
Cheers,
-T
(Editor-In-Chief)
I thought I just had. In what way does the statement "Yes, it's true
that you can't resell copies of The Python Papers for personal profits,
but you may derive from it, reproduce and propagate it" not provide
such a revision and clarification? Seriously, let me know what exact
statement you feel needs to be made, and I will endorse it accordingly
if it is accurate.
For my part, I don't see that there are ethically serious restrictions
on the freedom of use of the information contained within The Python
Papers. Call it "mostly free" if you like. There's no such thing as
complete freedom of information anyway, and we have done the best we
can.
It's not software. The GPL is not the only license which preserves the
free use of the information containted within and I don't think there's
any contradiction in what we are doing...
We considered releasing under the GPL, but felt that we wanted to
preserve two things which don't seem to be provided by it:
* Rights of the author to attribution as may be expected and desired
of an academic publication. The GPL doesn't seem appropriate for
disseminating the work of a single author.
* Rights of the author to have their words presented in their originial form
* Opportunity for the author to commercially license their works to
other vendors. By choosing the Share Alike restriction, we have
encouraged the free dissemination of research information without
affecting its commercial use. It seemed to be the best middle ground
between taking a strong ideological position on either side that would
be bound to put people off side. It preserves some rights for the
author while still allowing a substantial amount of free re-use.
* Reputation as an unbiased, financially disinterested group. By
distributing under the license we chose, we hoped to establish our
credentials.
Your email indicates a possible concern that we are doing something
untoward -- this was not at all intended, nor is it true.
Cheers,
-T
(Editor-In-Chief)
Oh, and I should have gone back and revised that 'two' up to 'four'.
Snafu, sorry.
Cheers,
-T
(Only-Human EIC)
kilnhead wrote:
I for one like the pdf format. Nothing irks me more than help files in
multipage HTML. I want a document I can easily download and save.
Thanks for your efforts.
tl**********@gm ail.com wrote:
>Greetings all,
Some of you may have noticed the launch of the Python Journal a while
back. Due to artistic differences, the journal has now been re-launched
as The Python Papers. It is available under a Creative Commons License,
something we felt was appropriate given its nature. Many here commented
that this was important to them, and it is important to us also.
For a fuller description of what we hope the journal to be, I re-create
my inaugural blog posting at the end of this email, or it can be found
online here: http://pythonpapers.cgpublisher.com/diary
Some of you had a number of specific points to raise, which I can now
answer properly since launching under our own banner.
1.) It takes too many clicks to download.
A) We know, but it's like that to save our server. We will be
publishing to a number of online archives, back-issues may be
back-linkable from those.
2.) Is it free?
A) Yes, as in beer and as in freedom. Creative Commons 2.5
Noncommercia l, attribution, share-alike.
3.) Can I have an HTML version?
A) No, we like it pretty.
4.) Why not try (insert favourite thing here)
A) We will. Thanks for the fish.
" Volume 1, Edition 1 makes history
Welcome to The Python Papers. This journal, small though it is,
represents the careful efforts of a small group of Python enthusiasts
who are keen to form a better community in which developers may work.
As Editor-In-Chief, my role is manifold, but my goals are to improve
the level of connectedness of Python developers, and in so doing
improve my own developer experience.
The entire editorial board has put time into making this publication
something which will hopefully lead to a buildup of momentum, fuelled
by the enthusiastic involvement of others who find Python as exciting
as we do.
The current issue contains one academic, peer-reviewed article, one
industry article, and a list of events coming up in Melbourne,
Australia. We would like to expand this list significantly. We offer
our services in organising, collating and reviewing submitted content
such that Python developers around the world may participate in the
creation of something bigger than all of us, for the benefit of all of
us. It may be a small journal, a little thing really, but all are
welcome, and we look forward to getting to know our readers through the
written word.
Please download the first edition, and consider both what it is and
what it might be.
For those of you looking to publish an academic paper as a part of
coursework or for interest's sake alone, we can offer a formal review
process which will meet those guidelines while preserving the goals of
freedom of information and community spirit.
Those who are using Python in their work may like to consider using the
journal as a means of expressing successes or frustrations with either
the language itself or specific applications. We may be able to offer
code reviews and style guides, and would be happy to hear about and
help propagate news of what is happening so that everyone can take an
interest.
For those who would like a reliable source of information, The Python
Papers presents a unique and current view into the state of Python at
large.
To all of you, welcome!
Cheers,
-Tennessee (Editor-In-Chief)"
As do I. Also, it seems quite in line with how the academic world
approaches their publications.
Looks damn good! tl**********@gm ail.com wrote:
Ben Finney wrote:
>"tl**********@ gmail.com" <tl**********@g mail.comwrites:
>>Yes, it's true that you can't resell copies of The Python Papers for
personal profits, but you may derive from it, reproduce and
propagate it. You're quite right to point it out.
Then please revise the false statement that the publication is "free
as in beer and freedom", or make it true by releasing the documents
under a license that does grant conventional free-software freedoms.
--
\ "They can not take away our self respect if we do not give it |
`\ to them." -- Mahatma Gandhi |
_o__) |
Ben Finney
I thought I just had. In what way does the statement "Yes, it's true
that you can't resell copies of The Python Papers for personal profits,
but you may derive from it, reproduce and propagate it" not provide
such a revision and clarification? Seriously, let me know what exact
statement you feel needs to be made, and I will endorse it accordingly
if it is accurate.
The phrase "free as in freedom" is commonly understood differently from
the way you are using it. Free as in freedom usually grants the right
to distribute for a fee. Many Linux distributors depend on that right;
otherwise they wouldn't have the right to sell CDs.
IMHO your licensing terms are fine; you don't need to switch from the CC
license. Just avoid the term "free as in freedom", since the Free
Software Foundation has assigned that phrase a very specific meaning.
Shane
Shane Hathaway wrote:
>
IMHO your licensing terms are fine; you don't need to switch from the CC
license. Just avoid the term "free as in freedom", since the Free
Software Foundation has assigned that phrase a very specific meaning.
Agreed. It should also be noted that Debian - amongst the strictest
with regard to software and content licensing - do not regard the CC
licences as being "free as in freedom": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_licenses http://people.debian.org/~evan/ccsummary.html http://people.debian.org/~evan/draftresponse.txt
Consequently, it may be appropriate to remind authors to also make
their works more widely available under a licence that may permit
further distribution, if that is desirable.
Paul
P.S. I still don't really understand why the FSF unreservedly
recommends the Free Art licence when it has a "choice of law" clause
that has prevented things like the GPL-compatibility of other licences
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