Help! Host is reluctant to install Python

[Daniel Bickett]

I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:

1. His major reason is optimization. He uses Zend's optimization of
PHP as an example, and he has stated that python is rather resource
consuming.
2. Another one of his points is that he is unexperienced in installing
python, and he would not know how to do it securely. By 'securely',
I'm assuming he means disallowing a malicious (or ignorant) user from
harming the server

And, in light of point #1, I suggested that if there wasn't any
optimization immediately available, he could just enable it for my
account (thus lessening potential resource consumption at any given
time), to which he retorted "Do /you/ know how to do that?", and I
must say, he has me cornered ;-)

I have no experience with this sort of thing, so I'm asking a little
assistance in the direction of any documents or websites (or what have
you) I could show him in order to answer some of these questions, or
perhaps even some unspoken ones -- anything worth noting. (all I'm
really going to do is link him to this thread once it has accumulated
any answers)

Thank you all for your help :)

Wishing-to-be-liberated-from-the-clutches-of-PHP-ly y'rs,
Daniel Bickett

[fuzzylollipop]

find a new host, if they can't handle simple tasks like this or simple
security tasks like limiting permissions, how can you be sure anything
else they do is secure or correct?

[Thomas Bartkus]

"Daniel Bickett" <db******@gmail .com> wrote in message
news:ma******** *************** *************** *@python.org...

I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:

<snip>

I'll second what you are already hearing.
Find a new hosting service because the one you have now is not qualified.

Thomas Bartkus

[Jeff Shannon]

Daniel Bickett wrote:

I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:

1. His major reason is optimization. He uses Zend's optimization of
PHP as an example, and he has stated that python is rather resource
consuming.
This depends, as all things, on what's being done with it -- it's
certainly possible to write resource-hogging Python apps, but it's
possible to do that in any language. And I'm not aware of Python
being particularly worse in this regard than any other web-scripting
language. I suspect this translates to "I'm avoiding anything that I
don't already know".
And, in light of point #1, I suggested that if there wasn't any
optimization immediately available, he could just enable it for my
account (thus lessening potential resource consumption at any given
time), to which he retorted "Do /you/ know how to do that?", and I
must say, he has me cornered ;-)

I don't know how to do that offhand... but then, I don't expect people
to pay me for web-hosting expertise. I would expect, from the little
that I *do* know of Apache configuration, that it wouldn't be too
difficult to allow Python CGIs to run out of only one specific
directory, that being within your webspace.

If you're paying for this service, then I'd agree with everyone else
that you should be paying for a different service. There's plenty of
webhosts around who *will* do Python. If this is a friend, then point
him to the Python Success Stories (http://www.pythonology.com/success)
and suggest that if there's that many Python web apps around, it can't
be too horrible on resources/management, and that he shouldn't be so
afraid to try something new...

Jeff Shannon
Technician/Programmer
Credit International

[phr]

Daniel Bickett <db******@gmail .com> writes:

I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:
I'm surprised that you're getting such detailed answers from him.
Usually, low-cost web hosts want to offer a one-size-fits-all package
that requires minimal interaction with customers. If you're paying
$10 a month for hosting and a host admin has to spend 1 hour sending
you email, that probably wipes out at least 6 months of profits from
you as a customer. If you want custom service you usually have to pay
a lo tmore.
1. His major reason is optimization. He uses Zend's optimization of
PHP as an example, and he has stated that python is rather resource
consuming.
Maybe that's true, though if there's enough customer demand for Python
anyway, the answer is to buy more equipment and pass the costs on.
The real problem is there's not enough demand.
2. Another one of his points is that he is unexperienced in installing
python, and he would not know how to do it securely. By 'securely',
I'm assuming he means disallowing a malicious (or ignorant) user from
harming the server
That's a serious issue too, and "securely" means not just securing
against the service's own customers, but also against outside attacks.
I have no idea how carefully mod_python has been audited. I don't use
it myself, though I do run some Python cgi's.
I have no experience with this sort of thing, so I'm asking a little
assistance in the direction of any documents or websites (or what have
you) I could show him in order to answer some of these questions, or
perhaps even some unspoken ones -- anything worth noting. (all I'm
really going to do is link him to this thread once it has accumulated
any answers)

I think you should look into some type of virtual hosting that gives
you more ability to install your own software. Typing "uml hosting"
(UML is user-mode Linux) into Google finds a lot of such services. If
you find one that you like, post it here, I'm interested in this myself.

[Daniel Bickett]

On ph*@localhost.l ocaldomain wrote:

Daniel Bickett <db******@gmail .com> writes:

I've been trying to convince my host to install python/mod_python on
his server for a while now, however there are a number of reasons he
is reluctant to do so, which I will outline here:

I'm surprised that you're getting such detailed answers from him.
Usually, low-cost web hosts want to offer a one-size-fits-all package
that requires minimal interaction with customers. If you're paying
$10 a month for hosting and a host admin has to spend 1 hour sending
you email, that probably wipes out at least 6 months of profits from
you as a customer. If you want custom service you usually have to pay
a lo tmore.

I know him personally, which is part of my reluctance to ditch him
entirely as most of you have suggested ;-) Suffice it to say I was
able to gain access to a 2.2 installation that was already on the
server, however for my intents and purposes I need a minimum of 2.3.
Now I'm working on getting him to upgrade to 2.4 and install
mod_python :)

New quick question: As for the former, on the download page it states
that the RPM distribution is sufficient for Fedora Core 3 *and
similar*, and I'm curious to know if that applies to Red Had
Enterprise as well. Thank you all for your answers and your time.

P.S. As for your pricing question, I only pay $20 a year. His services
are very affordable. You can see them all at the following link:
http://www.snorland.com/webhosting/

--
Daniel Bickett
db******@gmail. com
http://heureusement.org/

[Ian]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 01:40:39 GMT, ph*@localhost.l ocaldomain wrote:
....

I think you should look into some type of virtual hosting that gives
you more ability to install your own software. Typing "uml hosting"
(UML is user-mode Linux) into Google finds a lot of such services. If
you find one that you like, post it here, I'm interested in this myself.

I'm very happy with uml from tummy.com for 25 USD/month, with good
support by email for configuring mod_python in my case. They are also
a Pycon sponsor.

Ian

[gene.tani]

Based on discusses with these guys, who know LAMP, python, ruby inside
and out, and support it well:

http://textdrive.com/

I'm guessing you'd have a hard time finding mod_python / apache hosting
unless you get a dedicated server. It's pretty labor-intensive setup
and admin-wise. linux shell / python / SSH shdn't be a big deal, tho.