Announcing PyCs, a new Python-like language on .Net

[Mark Hahn]

This is an announcement of the beginning of development of a new
Python-like language called PyCs (pronounced "pie-cees"). Like IronPython,
PyCs will be Python on .Net but it will have more advanced features and
probably have higher performance due to a Psyco-like implementation
technique. See http://pycs.org.

PyCs is a fusion of Python and C#. It is the first Python-like dynamic
language with all the capabilities of C# including the capabilities of the
research language C-Omega (http://research.microsoft.com/Comega/) including
the X# language features
(http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Egmb/Paper...a-xml2003.html) that embed
XML/SQL support directly in the language. At the same time PyCs keeps all
the advantages of the Python language and the Python way.

PyCs will not be source compatible with either C# or Python but code could
be ported from either one easily.

PyCs is being developed by Mark Hahn who developed Prothon and PyCs grew
out of the initial efforts to port Prothon to .Net. For an explanation of
why the Prothon port to .Net turned into a whole new language, see
http://prothon.org/pycsnews.htm.

PyCs is just now starting development and will be developed using the same
XP-like language design process used to develop Prothon. This process will
use the PyCs mailing list to design the language where Mark acts as
moderator and implements the language in real-time as the ideas are worked
out. He will be working on PyCs full-time and drive the development just as
he did with Prothon.

Please join the PyCs team. The only effort involved is particpating in a
low-traffic, high-content, mailing list. You will be able to influence the
design of the latest and greatest dynamic language.

-- Mark Hahn, http://pycs.org

[Steve Holden]

David M. Wilson wrote:

Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> wrote in message news:<ma******* *************** *************** *@python.org>.. .

Please join the PyCs team. The only effort involved is particpating in a
low-traffic, high-content, mailing list. You will be able to influence the
design of the latest and greatest dynamic language.

Hi there. What are you trying to achieve? You have yet to complete
Prothon or even stabilise it for long enough to let me get a good
overview of it. Might I suggest you take a step back and actually
think about what you are doing rather than just implementing whatever
happens to be considered cool today.

Hear, hear.
Also judging by what I've seen of Prothon and read here, neither of
your proposed languages are either Python-like or related to this
group.
Well, I guess you have to try and garner support wherever you can.
Might I suggest you sit down with a paper and a pen and work out what
problem you are actually trying to solve, it is starting to get rather
embarrassing to watch the antics here. At the very least could you
spell check your postings before sending them.
Yup. One could take an announcement like this from someone like, say.
Jim Hugunin, who has a solid history of development of complete, working
systems. The suggestion that this effort might lead to something that
was "better" that Iron Python is ridiculous given that Prothon appears
to be merely "sound and fury, signifying nothing".
There are also much better forums to discuss language development on
than comp.lang.pytho n. Sorry for the flame, but you really need it.

It could have been a much worse flame and still justified. Mark should
gratefully take your advice.

regards
Steve

[Peter Hansen]

Mark Hahn wrote:

This is an announcement of the beginning of development of a new
Python-like language called PyCs (pronounced "pie-cees").

Reacting merely to the name, I'd say this smells "fishy". ;-)

(Non-English speakers, please note the winky and consider
homonyms with a sign of the Zodiac before saying I'm being rude.)

-Peter

[Ville Vainio]

>>>>> "Steve" == Steve Holden <sh*****@holden web.com> writes:

than comp.lang.pytho n. Sorry for the flame, but you really need it.

Steve> It could have been a much worse flame and still
Steve> justified. Mark should gratefully take your advice.

I dunno - Mark's general tone has been rather constructive, which is
not really flameworthy. It might be more useful if he, say, integrated
static typing from Boo to IronPython, but if someone is
enthusiasticall y (gotta admire Mark's energy) hacking on something
(anything) related to *Python codebase it can still be of interest to
people here - and it can also improve the codebase in the process.

--
Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb

[Mark Hahn]

On 29 Aug 2004 22:32:17 -0700, David M. Wilson wrote:

Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> wrote in message news:<ma******* *************** *************** *@python.org>.. .

Please join the PyCs team. The only effort involved is particpating in a
low-traffic, high-content, mailing list. You will be able to influence the
design of the latest and greatest dynamic language.
Hi there. What are you trying to achieve? You have yet to complete
Prothon or even stabilise it for long enough to let me get a good
overview of it.

Their is a quite good tutorial that you could get an overview quite easily
from.
Might I suggest you take a step back and actually
think about what you are doing rather than just implementing whatever
happens to be considered cool today.
Did you actually read the news release explaining this action? Please get
the facts before judging.
Also judging by what I've seen of Prothon and read here, neither of
your proposed languages are either Python-like or related to this
group.
Tim Peters and Guido both disagree with you. They have both told me to
post here and keep the community informed of my work. They consider
Prothon a "sandbox" that Python can learn from.
Might I suggest you sit down with a paper and a pen and work out what
problem you are actually trying to solve, it is starting to get rather
embarrassing to watch the antics here. At the very least could you
spell check your postings before sending them.
I'm sorry, how did I embarrass you and what did I misspell?
There are also much better forums to discuss language development on
than comp.lang.pytho n.
Prothon and PyCs are discussed heavily on other forums. Dicussion here is
rare.
Sorry for the flame, but you really need it.

Exactly what are you accomplishing with this flame? It seems to me that
you are just showing your ignorance about Prothon and it's relationship to
the Python community.

[Mark Hahn]

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 07:01:20 -0700, Tom B. wrote:

Python already does all the things that M*soft has tacked on in a kludgy
way, in a beautiful pythonic way. I have been using windows based machines
for a long time and in the language department (as well as others) M*soft
has been superceded by the open source community.

I would have agreed with you before I saw the details of the C-Omega
language. Check out this paper on how XML and SQL are handled directly in
the language:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Egmb/Paper...a-xml2003.html.

These features in a Python-like language will be awesome!

[Mark Hahn]

On 29 Aug 2004 19:58:53 -0700, Brian Almond wrote:

This is an announcement of the beginning of development of a new
Python-like language called PyCs (pronounced "pie-cees"). Like
IronPython,
PyCs will be Python on .Net but it will have more advanced features
and
probably have higher performance due to a Psyco-like implementation
technique. See http://pycs.org.

Here we go again ...

Is it time for an "interventi on" yet? :)

So you think I need a 12-step program for my language addiction? :-)

[Paul Rubin]

Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> writes:

I would have agreed with you before I saw the details of the C-Omega
language. Check out this paper on how XML and SQL are handled directly in
the language:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Egmb/Paper...a-xml2003.html.

Yuck, Javascript handled those tasks just fine, it seemed to me.

[Mark Hahn]

On 01 Sep 2004 00:47:40 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> writes:

I would have agreed with you before I saw the details of the C-Omega
language. Check out this paper on how XML and SQL are handled directly in
the language:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Egmb/Paper...a-xml2003.html.

Yuck, Javascript handled those tasks just fine, it seemed to me.

Did you actually read the paper?

[Ville Vainio]

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> writes:

Mark> On 01 Sep 2004 00:47:40 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> writes:

I would have agreed with you before I saw the details of the
C-Omega language. Check out this paper on how XML and SQL are
handled directly in the language:

Yuck, Javascript handled those tasks just fine, it seemed to me.

Mark> Did you actually read the paper?

And I'd like to ask whether you've checked out David Mertz's
gnosis.xml.obje ctify?

To me, X# seems mostly like naive buzzword chasing - or a research
project that exists because someone needed a research project.

If you want to do something that could be worthwhile to a larger
number of people, add static type declarations to IronPython. There
you could really be pioneering stuff that will be in py3k. X# sounds
more like perl7, with snowballs chance in hell of being adopted by any
future python iteration.

--
Ville Vainio http://tinyurl.com/2prnb

[Mark Hahn]

On 01 Sep 2004 23:38:52 +0300, Ville Vainio wrote:

>> "Mark" == Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> writes:
Mark> On 01 Sep 2004 00:47:40 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote: >> Mark Hahn <ma**@prothon.o rg> writes: >>> I would have agreed with you before I saw the details of the
>>> C-Omega language. Check out this paper on how XML and SQL are
>>> handled directly in the language: >> Yuck, Javascript handled those tasks just fine, it seemed to me.

Mark> Did you actually read the paper?

And I'd like to ask whether you've checked out David Mertz's
gnosis.xml.obje ctify?

To me, X# seems mostly like naive buzzword chasing - or a research
project that exists because someone needed a research project.

X# seems like groundbreaking work to me. It reminds me of the utility of
regular expressions but for XML and SQL.
If you want to do something that could be worthwhile to a larger
number of people, add static type declarations to IronPython. There
you could really be pioneering stuff that will be in py3k.
PyCs DOES offer optional static type declarations and many other things
from "Python 3000". Check out the website.
X# sounds
more like perl7, with snowballs chance in hell of being adopted by any
future python iteration.

Don't forget that reular expressions were in Perl first also and they are
used heavily in Python.