Are we looking at the scripting world through Python colored glasses?
Has Python development been sleeping while the world of scripting
languages has passed us Pythonista's by?
On Saturday Slashdot ran this article on the "best" scripting
languages. http://developers.slashdot.org/devel...id=126&tid=156
"Folks at the Scriptometer conducted a practical survey of which
scripting language is the best. While question like that is bound to
generate flamewars between the usual Perl vs PHP, Python vs Perl,
VBScript vs everything crowds, the Scriptometer survey is practical:
if I have to write a script, I have to write it fast, it has to be
small (less typing), it should allow me to either debug itself via a
debugger or just verbose output mode. sh, Perl and Ruby won the
competition, and with the difference of 1-2 points they were
essentially tied for first place... Interesting that ICFP contests
lately pronounced OCaml as the winner for rapid development."
Scriptometer site: http://merd.sourceforge.net/pixel/la...ting-language/
Needless to say, the Ruby site was Slashdot-ed today.
What points are the Scriptometer survey missing, in regards to the
ease of use and beauty of the Python language?
Or should I convert my code base to Ruby and or OCaml? :)
Let the rabid "in defense of Python" flames begin!
-- R.J. 41  2805 
Hi everybody
Richard James wrote: What points are the Scriptometer survey missing, in regards to the
ease of use and beauty of the Python language?
Well, better look again at Guido's Tutorial, as it reads at the very
beginning:
"""
If you ever wrote a large shell script, you probably know this feeling:
you'd love to add yet another feature, but it's already so slow, and so
big, and so complicated; or the feature involves a system call or other
function that is only accessible from C
"""
The page misses completely the handling of more complex tasks than those
typically used in any shell (hey, those examples could even be realized
with a DOS batch file :-p). Python might not be the number one choice
for testing whether a file is readable, but ask them why Fedora has
chosen Python for their Anaconda OS Installer and not a shell script...
-Markus
Richard James wrote: Are we looking at the scripting world through Python colored glasses?
Has Python development been sleeping while the world of scripting
languages has passed us Pythonista's by?
On Saturday Slashdot ran this article on the "best" scripting
languages.
http://developers.slashdot.org/devel...id=126&tid=156
"Folks at the Scriptometer conducted a practical survey of which
scripting language is the best.
"Practical surveys" are always as hilarious as practical programming, unless
one is asleep to their implications. One of the simple ones, which no doubt
formed much of the basis of this survey, always is: in which situation do I
have to type the least number of characters. For the brainless, this is a
valid test of programming excellence. Hopefully not all programmers in the
world have been reduced to such brainlessness yet.
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:34:43 -0700, Richard James wrote: "Folks at the Scriptometer conducted a practical survey of which
scripting language is the best. While question like that is bound to
generate flamewars between the usual Perl vs PHP, Python vs Perl,
VBScript vs everything crowds, the Scriptometer survey is practical:
if I have to write a script, I have to write it fast, it has to be
small (less typing), it should allow me to either debug itself via a
debugger or just verbose output mode. sh, Perl and Ruby won the
competition, and with the difference of 1-2 points they were
essentially tied for first place... Interesting that ICFP contests
lately pronounced OCaml as the winner for rapid development."
What points are the Scriptometer survey missing, in regards to the
ease of use and beauty of the Python language?
Or should I convert my code base to Ruby and or OCaml? :)
I recently learned ruby, merely out of curiosity. Now that I know it, I
dont write ANY shell utilities with python anymore. Ruby is a much better
choice for almost all simple administrative tasks. For larger programs,
there are times when python seems like a better choice. Python enforces
consistency and readability. In an environment where many people will be
working on the same code for an extended period of time, the benefits of
python become apparent. That isnt to say that ruby *cant* be used in
situations like that. If ruby programmers layout strict guidelines for a
project regarding style and methodology, it would be just as effective.
The proof is in the source. This is part of a ruby program I wrote. This
snippet is actually a single 'line'. I broke it into several lines for
slightly improved readability. This single line would probably take at
least 15 lines to do in python, probably more if you wanted to do it
intelligently.
["*.rar.*", "*.r[0-9][0-9].*"].each {|fn|
Dir[$prefix+fn].collect {|x|
x.gsub(/\.\d+[\d.-]*$/,"")}.uniq.e ach {|x|
`cat #{sesc x}.* > #{sesc x}`} }
One of my other favorite features of ruby, is the ability to globally add
methods to base types. While I strongly feel that the ability to extend
base types is a powerful feature, I'm sure many python programmers would
disagree.
Or should I convert my code base to Ruby and or OCaml? :)
Ruby and Python really have a lot in common. The one you use should
ultimately be based on your style and how you feel about programming. If
you like lots of mutability, lots of functional idioms, and inline regular
expressions, switch to ruby! If not, stick with python.
I'm an ardent OCaml advocate. Anyone who uses c++ should have their head
examined. OCaml is a fast, statically typed, object oriented language with
type inference, pattern matching, automatic memory management, and
inherent parametric polymorphism (you dont need templates!). Native
compilers AND dynamic interpreters are available. It even comes with an
interactive top-level like python does. OCaml programs typically run
faster than comparable c++ programs, and they take significantly less time
to write. OCaml has a built-in list type, and it comes with all the usual
list manipulation functions (map and filter). OCaml is somewhat difficult
to learn however. If you have the intellectual capacity and the time
required to learn a challenging language, learn OCaml. Additionally, I
should mention that OCaml libraries can easily be integrated with python
programs via pycaml. I use OCaml instead of C to write python extensions.
--SegPhault rm******@yahoo. com (Richard James) wrote in message news:<2c******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>... Needless to say, the Ruby site was Slashdot-ed today.
This has nothing to do with ./
The site was hacked and corrupted two weeks ago and since this time
one a stub is online.
Ryan Paul <se*******@sbcg lobal.net> wrote in message news:<pa******* *************** ******@sbcgloba l.net>... Ruby and Python really have a lot in common. The one you use should
ultimately be based on your style and how you feel about programming. If
you like lots of mutability, lots of functional idioms, and inline regular
expressions, switch to ruby! If not, stick with python.
Or if you need real multithreading and WxPython. This are IMHO the
reasons not to switch to ruby. The python implementation is
technically much better. And the python libraries are still much
better then ruby.
As the person behind "http://www.python-ide.com" and
"http://www.ruby-ide.com" i can tell you that otherwise the language
are almost the same. For example from the 18000 lines of code for the
debugger about 2000 lines are different for this two languages.
But look yourself. A weekend should be enough for a python programmer
to learn ruby.
Richard James wrote: What points are the Scriptometer survey missing, in regards to the
ease of use and beauty of the Python language?
Everything. It's definitely one of the most useless side-by-side
comparisons I've ever seen.
The program lengths criterion is ridiculous. It rewards Perl for
using unreadable line noise.
(Since when does Perl have an interactive interpretter?)
--
CARL BANKS http://www.aerojockey.com/software
"If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay on drugs, and
don't do milk, you can get work."
-- Parody of Mr. T from a Robert Smigel Cartoon
Ryan Paul wrote:
.... required to learn a challenging language, learn OCaml. Additionally, I
should mention that OCaml libraries can easily be integrated with python
programs via pycaml. I use OCaml instead of C to write python extensions.
do you have examples? i could only get it to work the other way round.
graham
Richard James wrote: Are we looking at the scripting world through Python colored glasses?
Has Python development been sleeping while the world of scripting
languages has passed us Pythonista's by?
Everyone knows that any scripting language shootout that doesn't show
Python as the best language is faulty by design.
regards Max M This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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