Survey of unit tested OS PHP applications

[Bill]

Greetings all,

I would like to create a list, for an upcoming OINK-PUG presentation
on TDD & BDD in PHP, of open source PHP applications that are well
covered with unit and functional tests. Ideally, I would like to run
the test suite of one such application at some point during the
presentation.

It matters not to me what testing framework is used.

Please feel free to reply with any applications you believe meet this
criteria. So far, I'm only aware of Symfony which uses their in-house
developed 'lime' framework.

My gut tells me that the percentage of well tested applications will
be embarrassingly low.

Thanks in advance for your assistance,

Bill

[Christopher E. Franklin, Sr.]

On Nov 27, 11:58 pm, Bill <booksmartbi... @gmail.comwrote :

Greetings all,

I would like to create a list, for an upcoming OINK-PUG presentation
on TDD & BDD in PHP, of open source PHP applications that are well
covered with unit and functional tests. Ideally, I would like to run
the test suite of one such application at some point during the
presentation.

It matters not to me what testing framework is used.

Please feel free to reply with any applications you believe meet this
criteria. So far, I'm only aware of Symfony which uses their in-house
developed 'lime' framework.

My gut tells me that the percentage of well tested applications will
be embarrassingly low.

Thanks in advance for your assistance,

Bill

CakePHP @ cakephp.org

[Bill]

The best reply I have had to this post was off-line. Should the author
of that message grant permission, you will read more about his
application and tests in my presentation which I will publish under
the Creative Commons license after it is presented to the OINK-PUG
members in January.

I was confident that the response would be low, but not this low...

Regards,

BB

[Jerry Stuckle]

Bill wrote:

The best reply I have had to this post was off-line. Should the author
of that message grant permission, you will read more about his
application and tests in my presentation which I will publish under
the Creative Commons license after it is presented to the OINK-PUG
members in January.

I was confident that the response would be low, but not this low...

Regards,

BB

I would suggest this is not the right place to be asking this question.
Most of the people here are working on web sites, not open source
applications.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Bill]

On Dec 2, 7:17 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Bill wrote:

The best reply I have had to this post was off-line. Should the author
of that message grant permission, you will read more about his
application and tests in my presentation which I will publish under
the Creative Commons license after it is presented to the OINK-PUG
members in January.

I was confident that the response would be low, but not this low...

Regards,

BB

I would suggest this is not the right place to be asking this question.
Most of the people here are working on web sites, not open source
applications.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

Thanks Jerry,

However, may I respectfully suggest that you can (and likely should)
use open source PHP projects to create a wide variety of "web sites"
from blogs, to personal home pages, to enterprise web portals. I also
contend that to preserve your sanity that you use or write for
yourself software that is unit and functional tested.

The aspect of your response that is most unsettling to me is that an
individual such as yourself that works presumably as a "trainer" is
utterly unaware of TDD, as is sadly much of the PHP community. I
intend no offense in making this observation. In fact, you may be
among the top 10% of competent trainers in computing and, so long as
you're not training in software development, remain ignorant of the
concept of TDD. However, if software development is something JDS does
for profit then investigating TDD might be the smartest move you've
made in a while.

Best wishes and good luck,

Bill

[Jerry Stuckle]

Bill wrote:

On Dec 2, 7:17 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

>Bill wrote:

>>The best reply I have had to this post was off-line. Should the author
of that message grant permission, you will read more about his
application and tests in my presentation which I will publish under
the Creative Commons license after it is presented to the OINK-PUG
members in January.
I was confident that the response would be low, but not this low...
Regards,
BB

I would suggest this is not the right place to be asking this question.
Most of the people here are working on web sites, not open source
applications .

--
============== ====
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attg lobal.net
============== ====

Thanks Jerry,

However, may I respectfully suggest that you can (and likely should)
use open source PHP projects to create a wide variety of "web sites"
from blogs, to personal home pages, to enterprise web portals. I also
contend that to preserve your sanity that you use or write for
yourself software that is unit and functional tested.

How I work should be of no concern to you. You have no idea of my
background, experience, or the projects I work on.

The aspect of your response that is most unsettling to me is that an
individual such as yourself that works presumably as a "trainer" is
utterly unaware of TDD, as is sadly much of the PHP community. I
intend no offense in making this observation. In fact, you may be
among the top 10% of competent trainers in computing and, so long as
you're not training in software development, remain ignorant of the
concept of TDD. However, if software development is something JDS does
for profit then investigating TDD might be the smartest move you've
made in a while.

Best wishes and good luck,

Bill

I am quite aware of TDD. But whether I am aware of it or not, and
whether I use it or not is completely immaterial to your question.

You asked about OPEN SOURCE applications. I do not do much open source;
neither do most of the people in this newsgroup.

And BTW - TDD is nothing new, nor is it the greatest thing since sliced
bread. There are a number of problems with the theory which make it
unsuitable for larger projects.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Bill]

On Dec 7, 11:54 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Bill wrote:

On Dec 2, 7:17 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Bill wrote:
The best reply I have had to this post was off-line. Should the author
of that message grant permission, you will read more about his
application and tests in my presentation which I will publish under
the Creative Commons license after it is presented to the OINK-PUG
members in January.
I was confident that the response would be low, but not this low...
Regards,
BB
I would suggest this is not the right place to be asking this question.
Most of the people here are working on web sites, not open source
applications.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

Thanks Jerry,

However, may I respectfully suggest that you can (and likely should)
use open source PHP projects to create a wide variety of "web sites"
from blogs, to personal home pages, to enterprise web portals. I also
contend that to preserve your sanity that you use or write for
yourself software that is unit and functional tested.

How I work should be of no concern to you. You have no idea of my
background, experience, or the projects I work on.

The aspect of your response that is most unsettling to me is that an
individual such as yourself that works presumably as a "trainer" is
utterly unaware of TDD, as is sadly much of the PHP community. I
intend no offense in making this observation. In fact, you may be
among the top 10% of competent trainers in computing and, so long as
you're not training in software development, remain ignorant of the
concept of TDD. However, if software development is something JDS does
for profit then investigating TDD might be the smartest move you've
made in a while.

Best wishes and good luck,

Bill

I am quite aware of TDD. But whether I am aware of it or not, and
whether I use it or not is completely immaterial to your question.

You asked about OPEN SOURCE applications. I do not do much open source;
neither do most of the people in this newsgroup.

And BTW - TDD is nothing new, nor is it the greatest thing since sliced
bread. There are a number of problems with the theory which make it
unsuitable for larger projects.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

Jerry,

Your stress level appears as high as mine was back in the days before
I became a fan of TDD. My intent was merely to be helpful. But, since
you insist...

You've misquoted my original question. I asked readers to name any
"open source PHP applications" they are familiar with that have good
test coverage. This being the "comp.lang. php" group I felt it was the
most appropriate place for such a post. Can you suggest a better
place?

Seriously, I hope I did not hurt your feelings too badly and that you
don't mind if I feature quit a bit of this exchange during my
presentation in January, what with our comments all being part of the
public domain and all... Don't worry. I won't use your real name or
make reference to your company.

Again, I will wish you good luck. It sounds as if you'll need it.

Sincere best wishes,

Bill

[Jerry Stuckle]

Bill wrote:

On Dec 7, 11:54 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

>Bill wrote:

>>On Dec 2, 7:17 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
Bill wrote:
The best reply I have had to this post was off-line. Should the author
of that message grant permission, you will read more about his
applicati on and tests in my presentation which I will publish under
the Creative Commons license after it is presented to the OINK-PUG
members in January.
I was confident that the response would be low, but not this low...
Regards,
BB
I would suggest this is not the right place to be asking this question.
Most of the people here are working on web sites, not open source
applications .
--
============ ======
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@at tglobal.net
============ ======
Thanks Jerry,
However, may I respectfully suggest that you can (and likely should)
use open source PHP projects to create a wide variety of "web sites"
from blogs, to personal home pages, to enterprise web portals. I also
contend that to preserve your sanity that you use or write for
yourself software that is unit and functional tested.

How I work should be of no concern to you. You have no idea of my
background, experience, or the projects I work on.

>>The aspect of your response that is most unsettling to me is that an
individual such as yourself that works presumably as a "trainer" is
utterly unaware of TDD, as is sadly much of the PHP community. I
intend no offense in making this observation. In fact, you may be
among the top 10% of competent trainers in computing and, so long as
you're not training in software development, remain ignorant of the
concept of TDD. However, if software development is something JDS does
for profit then investigating TDD might be the smartest move you've
made in a while.
Best wishes and good luck,
Bill

I am quite aware of TDD. But whether I am aware of it or not, and
whether I use it or not is completely immaterial to your question.

You asked about OPEN SOURCE applications. I do not do much open source;
neither do most of the people in this newsgroup.

And BTW - TDD is nothing new, nor is it the greatest thing since sliced
bread. There are a number of problems with the theory which make it
unsuitable for larger projects.

--
============== ====
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attg lobal.net
============== ====

Jerry,

Your stress level appears as high as mine was back in the days before
I became a fan of TDD. My intent was merely to be helpful. But, since
you insist...

Not at all. My stress level is just fine.

You've misquoted my original question. I asked readers to name any
"open source PHP applications" they are familiar with that have good
test coverage. This being the "comp.lang. php" group I felt it was the
most appropriate place for such a post. Can you suggest a better
place?

No, I understood your question. And my response was accurate. Most of
the people here work on web sites, not open source applications. If you
want those, try searching out the applications themselves and ask people.

Seriously, I hope I did not hurt your feelings too badly and that you
don't mind if I feature quit a bit of this exchange during my
presentation in January, what with our comments all being part of the
public domain and all... Don't worry. I won't use your real name or
make reference to your company.

No, you may NOT quote me in your presentation. My comments are NOT part
of the public domain under either U.S. or international Copyright law;
I have not specifically released them to the public domain so they
remain my comments. And you do not have permission to use them or my
name in your presentation.

And any attempt to do so will result in legal action against both you
and OINK-PUG.

Again, I will wish you good luck. It sounds as if you'll need it.

Sincere best wishes,

Bill

I need no luck at all. I'm doing just fine.

And, for your information - I have about 40 years of programming
experience. I have been an independent consultant for over 17 years,
training and managing projects - including design.

In that time, I have seen virtually every design/test methodology that
gathered any following at all. And TDD, like every single other one,
has its good points and its bad points. TDD works on some projects, but
is not a good methodology for all projects.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
js*******@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

[Bill]

On Dec 10, 1:33 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Bill wrote:

On Dec 7, 11:54 am, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:

Bill wrote:
On Dec 2, 7:17 pm, Jerry Stuckle <jstuck...@attg lobal.netwrote:
Bill wrote:
The best reply I have had to this post was off-line. Should the author
of that message grant permission, you will read more about his
applicatio n and tests in my presentation which I will publish under
the Creative Commons license after it is presented to the OINK-PUG
members in January.
I was confident that the response would be low, but not this low...
Regards,
BB
I would suggest this is not the right place to be asking this question.
Most of the people here are working on web sites, not open source
application s.
--
============= =====
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@att global.net
============= =====
Thanks Jerry,
However, may I respectfully suggest that you can (and likely should)
use open source PHP projects to create a wide variety of "web sites"
from blogs, to personal home pages, to enterprise web portals. I also
contend that to preserve your sanity that you use or write for
yourself software that is unit and functional tested.
How I work should be of no concern to you. You have no idea of my
background, experience, or the projects I work on.

>The aspect of your response that is most unsettling to me is that an
individual such as yourself that works presumably as a "trainer" is
utterly unaware of TDD, as is sadly much of the PHP community. I
intend no offense in making this observation. In fact, you may be
among the top 10% of competent trainers in computing and, so long as
you're not training in software development, remain ignorant of the
concept of TDD. However, if software development is something JDS does
for profit then investigating TDD might be the smartest move you've
made in a while.
Best wishes and good luck,
Bill
I am quite aware of TDD. But whether I am aware of it or not, and
whether I use it or not is completely immaterial to your question.

You asked about OPEN SOURCE applications. I do not do much open source;
neither do most of the people in this newsgroup.

And BTW - TDD is nothing new, nor is it the greatest thing since sliced
bread. There are a number of problems with the theory which make it
unsuitable for larger projects.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

Jerry,

Your stress level appears as high as mine was back in the days before
I became a fan of TDD. My intent was merely to be helpful. But, since
you insist...

Not at all. My stress level is just fine.

You've misquoted my original question. I asked readers to name any
"open source PHP applications" they are familiar with that have good
test coverage. This being the "comp.lang. php" group I felt it was the
most appropriate place for such a post. Can you suggest a better
place?

No, I understood your question. And my response was accurate. Most of
the people here work on web sites, not open source applications. If you
want those, try searching out the applications themselves and ask people.

Seriously, I hope I did not hurt your feelings too badly and that you
don't mind if I feature quit a bit of this exchange during my
presentation in January, what with our comments all being part of the
public domain and all... Don't worry. I won't use your real name or
make reference to your company.

No, you may NOT quote me in your presentation. My comments are NOT part
of the public domain under either U.S. or international Copyright law;
I have not specifically released them to the public domain so they
remain my comments. And you do not have permission to use them or my
name in your presentation.

And any attempt to do so will result in legal action against both you
and OINK-PUG.

Again, I will wish you good luck. It sounds as if you'll need it.

Sincere best wishes,

Bill

I need no luck at all. I'm doing just fine.

And, for your information - I have about 40 years of programming
experience. I have been an independent consultant for over 17 years,
training and managing projects - including design.

In that time, I have seen virtually every design/test methodology that
gathered any following at all. And TDD, like every single other one,
has its good points and its bad points. TDD works on some projects, but
is not a good methodology for all projects.

--
=============== ===
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstuck...@attgl obal.net
=============== ===

I'll remove the X and send you a copy...

Respectfully,

Bill