473,735 Members | 2,945 Online
Bytes | Software Development & Data Engineering Community
+ Post

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Fonts and

Hi all

Have a customer that wants a specific font included in her web page
design; Comic Sans MS. This is one of the MS core fonts. The problem
I have is that some of the *nix browsers do NOT include these fonts by
default.

http://www.diamondvet.com/test renders those fonts correctly using an
XP box. After I installed those fonts on my machine, firefox and
mozilla both rendered them correctly. So here is the question:

How do I get whatever surfer to download the proper font file? Sure,
it can be an option given to the surfer, but how can I find out what
fonts are available, then show the surfer a message or something? Is
this an automagic thing? Am I going about this all wrong?

Thanks in advance.

todh

Jun 16 '06 #1
12 2346
ctclibby wrote:
Hi all

Have a customer that wants a specific font included in her web page
design; Comic Sans MS. This is one of the MS core fonts. The problem
I have is that some of the *nix browsers do NOT include these fonts by
default.

http://www.diamondvet.com/test renders those fonts correctly using an
XP box. After I installed those fonts on my machine, firefox and
mozilla both rendered them correctly. So here is the question:

How do I get whatever surfer to download the proper font file? Sure,
it can be an option given to the surfer, but how can I find out what
fonts are available, then show the surfer a message or something? Is
this an automagic thing? Am I going about this all wrong?

Thanks in advance.

todh


Not really a PHP question, but in the interest of avoiding a MAC truck...

You want to support a font-family. This tells the browser to look at an
ordered set of fonts and to use the first one it finds for the page.

You'll often see something like:
sans-serif: Comic Sans MS, Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica

which says 'look for Comic Sans MS, then Tahoma, then Verdana, then
Arial, and finally Helvetica'.

A introduction to CSS will discuss this in more detail.

Some people put a tag line near the bottom of the page saying something
like "This page looks best when rendered using Comic Sans MS. Get it
here" but that is no guarantee that they will do that.

If you absolutely have to use Comic Sans MS, you will probably have to
send pre-rendered images of the text (ugly!).

-david-

Jun 16 '06 #2
Hi,

CSS supports specifying the font location url from which the font file
will be downloaded.
Consider this:
<STYLE TYPE="text/css" MEDIA="screen, print">
@font-face {
font-family: "Robson Celtic";
src: url("http://site/fonts/rob-celt")
}
H1 { font-family: "Robson Celtic", serif }
</STYLE>
from
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html

This is not a commonly used practice and web designers are avoiding it.
Please use it only when there are very strong reasons.

Sincerely,
Alexander

David Haynes wrote:
ctclibby wrote:
Hi all

Have a customer that wants a specific font included in her web page
design; Comic Sans MS. This is one of the MS core fonts. The problem
I have is that some of the *nix browsers do NOT include these fonts by
default.

http://www.diamondvet.com/test renders those fonts correctly using an
XP box. After I installed those fonts on my machine, firefox and
mozilla both rendered them correctly. So here is the question:

How do I get whatever surfer to download the proper font file? Sure,
it can be an option given to the surfer, but how can I find out what
fonts are available, then show the surfer a message or something? Is
this an automagic thing? Am I going about this all wrong?

Thanks in advance.

todh


Not really a PHP question, but in the interest of avoiding a MAC truck...

You want to support a font-family. This tells the browser to look at an
ordered set of fonts and to use the first one it finds for the page.

You'll often see something like:
sans-serif: Comic Sans MS, Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica

which says 'look for Comic Sans MS, then Tahoma, then Verdana, then
Arial, and finally Helvetica'.

A introduction to CSS will discuss this in more detail.

Some people put a tag line near the bottom of the page saying something
like "This page looks best when rendered using Comic Sans MS. Get it
here" but that is no guarantee that they will do that.

If you absolutely have to use Comic Sans MS, you will probably have to
send pre-rendered images of the text (ugly!).

-david-


Jun 16 '06 #3
AlexVN schrieb:
CSS supports specifying the font location url from which the font file
will be downloaded.


Keep in mind that you can only do this with fonts you designed yourself,
or that have a license that allows free distribution. If you provide
copyright-protected fonts for download you could run into trouble.

If the client requires the page to look absolutely the same on every
computer in the world, there is no solution in HTML and CSS. You will
have to use Flash, PDF or whatever (or distribute the site printed on
paper - SCNR...). Anyway it is a better way to educate the client about
the web and it's limitations (and advantages). Defining a font family
the way David suggested will actually satisfy your client's needs on a
huge majority of browsers. If this is not enough, use GIFs for titles.

--
Markus
Jun 16 '06 #4
>Have a customer that wants a specific font included in her web page
design; Comic Sans MS. This is one of the MS core fonts. The problem
I have is that some of the *nix browsers do NOT include these fonts by
default.

http://www.diamondvet.com/test renders those fonts correctly using an
XP box. After I installed those fonts on my machine, firefox and
mozilla both rendered them correctly.
And did you violate copyright laws by doing so?
So here is the question:

How do I get whatever surfer to download the proper font file? Sure,
Death threats? Making sure they can't use the site without it?
That tends to drive away customers. Sending them a virus to install
it? Probably works well on XP; harder on other systems.
it can be an option given to the surfer, but how can I find out what
fonts are available, then show the surfer a message or something? Is
this an automagic thing? Am I going about this all wrong?


Keep in mind that asking users to fiddle with their software just
to use your site SCREAMS a number of things you don't really want
attributed to your site:

VIRUS!!

SPYWARE!!

MALWARE!!

Insecure!! and someplace I really don't want to trust with my credit
card number.

There's no point in even trying since it won't work on my system anyway,
so I'll buy elsewhere.

Gordon L. Burditt
Jun 16 '06 #5
>
And did you violate copyright laws by doing so?
Let's see from the microsoft site:
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/perm...fault.mspx#EUE

Fonts

Microsoft licenses existing fonts from various font vendors, but also
commissions original fonts. If you are looking to license a particular
font, you should contact the vendor directly. The vendor will be listed
in the font's copyright or trademark entry. Use our free Font
properties extension to access this information.

Until recently most fonts that include a Microsoft copyright or
trademark notice have only been available as part of Microsoft
products. Although some fonts remain Microsoft-exclusive a number of
Microsoft fonts are now available to end users, ISVs, and OEMs under
license from Ascender Corporation. These include Verdana, Georgia,
Comic Sans MS, Microsoft Sans Serif, Nina, Tahoma, Wingdings, Webdings,
and Trebuchet MS.
There's no point in even trying since it won't work on my system anyway,
so I'll buy elsewhere.


I hate MS software, but I understand the simple fact that 90% of the
worlds computers have it running in some form or another and as a
designer I need to deal with that. I can't seem to make my customers
come to the real world of open source OS's no matter how hard I try.
Given time, maybe...

Are you as pure as you think you are?

Gordon L. Burditt

Jun 16 '06 #6
>> And did you violate copyright laws by doing so?

Let's see from the microsoft site:
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/perm...fault.mspx#EUE

Fonts

Microsoft licenses existing fonts from various font vendors, but also
commissions original fonts. If you are looking to license a particular
font, you should contact the vendor directly. The vendor will be listed
in the font's copyright or trademark entry. Use our free Font
properties extension to access this information.

Until recently most fonts that include a Microsoft copyright or
trademark notice have only been available as part of Microsoft
products. Although some fonts remain Microsoft-exclusive a number of
Microsoft fonts are now available to end users, ISVs, and OEMs under
license from Ascender Corporation. These include Verdana, Georgia,
Comic Sans MS, Microsoft Sans Serif, Nina, Tahoma, Wingdings, Webdings,
and Trebuchet MS.
So how does Microsoft define "end user"? (Does it include someone
who's never used a Microsoft OS or EULA in his life? Or is it
someone who's agreed to a Microsoft End User License Agreement?)
And what are the terms of the license from Ascender Corporation?
Even if it's free, do I legally HAVE to get the fonts directly from
them and not be allowed to redistribute them? This sounds like a
heck of a lot of trouble just to view a web site.

In short: how would I legally get the fonts, and if you are referring
to a URL on your site, can you legally redistribute them?

There's no point in even trying since it won't work on my system anyway,
so I'll buy elsewhere.


This is the attitude of a *USER* (of a minority browser) I was
talking about, not that of a *DEVELOPER*. And you're not going to
be able to change it. If I (as a user) start seeing prompts from
my browser asking me to download plugins (e.g. for Flash), I know
darn well there aren't any for my system (based on trying and failing
many times), so I'll just give up on the site, or at least that
part of it.
I hate MS software, but I understand the simple fact that 90% of the
worlds computers have it running in some form or another and as a
designer I need to deal with that.
You're not trying to tell me that the *only* font MS browsers
have is Comic Sans, are you? I didn't think so. Even Microsoft
isn't that stupid.

But you aren't talking here about how doing something the correct
way breaks in IE 27.932, so ignoring 90% of the market is not an
issue. The issue is whether you ignore the other 10%.

That test page you included a link to rendered *SOMETHING* on my
Firefox. I don't know whether it was in Comic Sans or not. I doubt
it. All 9 lines looked like they were in the same font, with
different color backgrounds. But it was at least *readable*. And
it looked a lot better than the "Kidnap" or "Random" fonts. Making
sure the page is unreadable if they don't have Comic Sans is going
in the wrong direction.
I can't seem to make my customers
come to the real world of open source OS's no matter how hard I try.
Given time, maybe...
You shouldn't have to force people to one or the other. Going out
of the way to generate nasty prompts, and break the site if they
don't bend to your will is not a good thing for either the users
or the site owner.
Are you as pure as you think you are?

Gordon L. Burditt


Gordon L. Burditt
Jun 16 '06 #7
Gordon Burditt wrote:
And did you violate copyright laws by doing so?

Let's see from the microsoft site:
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/perm...fault.mspx#EUE


Comic Sans MS falls into the class of fonts known collectively as
"Microsoft' s TrueType core fonts". These are available for installation
on various Linux and Solaris systems via rpm, apt-get or other
distributions.

These distributions may be found at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/corefonts/

There seems to be some legal conditions around these fonts since the RPM
spec makes reference to taking special pains not to be seen as
redistributing the fonts.

Running the font shell extension tool on Comic Sans MS does not reveal
any Licensing information and the web page for the core TrueType fonts
pack simply says that Microsoft is no longer distributing the package.

A little digging reveals this gem:
Until recently, most fonts that include a Microsoft copyright or
trademark notice have only been available as part of Microsoft products.
Although some fonts remain Microsoft-exclusive, a number of Microsoft
fonts are now available to end users, ISVs and OEMs under license from
Ascender Corporation. These include 'Verdana', 'Georgia', 'Comic Sans
MS', 'Microsoft Sans Serif', 'Nina', 'Tahoma', 'Wingdings', 'Webdings'
and 'Trebuchet MS'.

Checking on the Ascender web site indicates that these fonts are
available for license but does not supply any details.

Bottom line. It is probably OK for an individual to download these fonts
for use in Linux/Solaris environments. It is probably *not* OK to
redistribute these fonts without a license.

-david-

Jun 16 '06 #8
> On 16 Jun 2006 12:00:35 -0700, "AlexVN"
<al************ *****@gmail.com > top posted like an ignorant fucking
moron and wrote:

Doesn't matter what you wrote. I'm SO sick of top posters.


Pardon me, I really did not know what is "top posting".
I've read http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/quote.html and now I'm
informed.

Thanks,
Alex

Jun 16 '06 #9
ctclibby wrote:
How do I get whatever surfer to download the proper font file? Sure,
it can be an option given to the surfer, but how can I find out what
fonts are available, then show the surfer a message or something? Is
this an automagic thing? Am I going about this all wrong?


As far as I know there is no direct way to check if a font is install
on a user's computer. What you can do is create an element that
specifies the use of the font, then check its width to see if it comes
out. Something like:

var width;
var el = document.create Element('SPAN') ;
el.style.fontFa mily = 'Comic Sans MS; Sans serif';
el.style.fontSi ze = '100px';
el.style.visibi lity = 'hidden';
el.innerHTML = 'III';
document.body.a ppendChild(el);
width = el.offsetWidth;
document.body.r emoveChild(el);
Since the capital I in Comic San Serif has a top and bottom bar where
as it would not a regular sans serif font, if the width isn't above a
certain number then the font isn't there.

The lack of font embedding is a major bummer with Mozilla.

Jun 17 '06 #10

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

Similar topics

1
3346
by: Jack Charbonneau | last post by:
I have a bunch of custom fonts installed on my system. For instance if I look at the font drop-down in word pad I see about 90 fonts, but if I build an app using VS.Net, add a label, and try to change the font - I'm only given a choice of about 20 - the "standard" fonts which are installed with the OS (XP). How can I get the rest of my fonts in this box? Thanks.
0
3397
by: LaidBack Bill | last post by:
My application allows the user to select fonts. I fill in a combo box control with the available fonts by looping through all System.Fonts: ' Get all the screen fonts ReDim sFontNameList(Screen.FontCount - 1) For i = 0 To Screen.FontCount - 1 sFontNameList(i) = Screen.Fonts(i) Next i
4
11968
by: L | last post by:
Hi there, Does C# support OpenType fonts? My c# application is not recognizing OpenType fonts. Thanks, Lalasa.
4
3679
by: Aaron Gray | last post by:
Is there anyway to get a list of all the availiable fonts in Javascript ? Aaron
2
2935
by: Luc | last post by:
I saw a few posts on this newsgroup about it but nothing to help me resolve this problem: We designed a window in .NET on a platform using small fonts (120 ppp). But this window will run on servers configured with large fonts. For a reason I cant explain, not only the font changes when settings the window on large font but all the widgets seem to be resized. This is kind of problematic because I have to redraw (resize) all the widgets...
1
3256
by: Atul | last post by:
Hi, I have installed a truetype font (.ttf) on a linux machne (SUSE linux 10, KDE) by copying it to my .fonts folder. I can use the font in all applications like open-office and firefox browser. However, I cannot use the font in a python app that I am writing. The list returned by Tkfont.families does not contain this particular font. Any suggestions ?
8
6550
by: traditore | last post by:
Hello. I'm trying to load fonts in a web page using "style" tag. The TTF files are in other page whose URL is, for example, "http://myURL/fonts". The HTML code is something like: <html> <head> <style> @font-face {
2
4678
by: Gary | last post by:
1. I've installed a bunch of fonts in main application, which is in native C++ code using AddFontResourceEx 2. A C# application is launched from this main application, but failed to enumerate those installed fonts. My issue is that I don't want those fonts to be used outside of the main application so that I've set the font characteristics as FR_PRIVATE. However, I want the C# application be able to use those fonts. Although the C# app...
2
2971
tpgames
by: tpgames | last post by:
Two days ago, MS office Word would type JP fonts, I thought. I didn't think I was using Works. Now, it won't type in JP. Jasc Paint shop pro 8, should type JP fonts because I am using XP, according to Corel's website, and Jasc uses whatever is in the XP font folder. But, it won't. All the JP fonts types as English, even with JP selected in the Language Bar. I can't afford to upgrade to any better paint program. I do have a free JP word...
0
8784
by: Hystou | last post by:
Most computers default to English, but sometimes we require a different language, especially when relocating. Forgot to request a specific language before your computer shipped? No problem! You can effortlessly switch the default language on Windows 10 without reinstalling. I'll walk you through it. First, let's disable language synchronization. With a Microsoft account, language settings sync across devices. To prevent any complications,...
0
9462
Oralloy
by: Oralloy | last post by:
Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed. This is as boiled down as I can make it. Here is my compilation command: g++-12 -std=c++20 -Wnarrowing bit_field.cpp Here is the code in...
1
9248
by: Hystou | last post by:
Overview: Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows Update option using the Control Panel or Settings app; it automatically checks for updates and installs any it finds, whether you like it or not. For most users, this new feature is actually very convenient. If you want to control the update process,...
0
9199
tracyyun
by: tracyyun | last post by:
Dear forum friends, With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
0
8199
agi2029
by: agi2029 | last post by:
Let's talk about the concept of autonomous AI software engineers and no-code agents. These AIs are designed to manage the entire lifecycle of a software development project—planning, coding, testing, and deployment—without human intervention. Imagine an AI that can take a project description, break it down, write the code, debug it, and then launch it, all on its own.... Now, this would greatly impact the work of software developers. The idea...
1
6747
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules. He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms. Adolph will...
0
4558
by: TSSRALBI | last post by:
Hello I'm a network technician in training and I need your help. I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs. The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols. I succeeded, with both firewalls in the same network. But I'm wondering if it's possible to do the same thing, with 2 Pfsense firewalls...
0
4821
by: adsilva | last post by:
A Windows Forms form does not have the event Unload, like VB6. What one acts like?
2
2738
muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.

By using Bytes.com and it's services, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

To disable or enable advertisements and analytics tracking please visit the manage ads & tracking page.