I returned home from work today to find an Airborne Express Letter
Express mailer leaning up against my apartment door.
The return addressee was
Microsoft
Suite 300
1165 Eastlake Avenue E
Seattle, WA 98109
Inside was a 4-color folder containing:
Windows 2003 evalution CD
Letter from Martin Taylor ( Sent Feb 1, 2004 according to the
letter...so much for Airborne )
A multipage brochure decrying that Windos was better than Linux.
SAD POOR PITIFUL FOOLS !!!!
....and into the garbage it went..........
PS -- Martin Taylor has been described as: http://www.linuxpipeline.com/trends/18200168
"Microsoft' s Top Anti-Linux General"
More like a Private Last Class I'd Say.........
Jul 21 '05
24  2151 
On Wed, 19 May 2004 16:40:10 GMT, Philip Callan wrote: People are not stupid, everyone can /learn/, but Microsoft doesnt want
them too. People knew /MORE/ about the computers they ran before
Windows95 hit the streets, since then its been a gradual decline in
average proficiency.
Of course, you're omitting the fact that there's a hell of a lot more
people now using computers - a lot of which would never have dreamed of
touching them before.
You obviously haven't met some of the people I have. People who were scared
of breaking the computer. People who couldn't figure out how to send an
email by themselves. People who just didn't *get* technology.
There are plenty of these people. They are your dentist, your aunt, your
mother. They are your postman, your boss, your lover. They are everywhere -
and they outnumber us.
--
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
The Lurking Horror wrote: On Wed, 19 May 2004 16:40:10 GMT, Philip Callan wrote:
People are not stupid, everyone can /learn/, but Microsoft doesnt want
them too. People knew /MORE/ about the computers they ran before
Windows95 hit the streets, since then its been a gradual decline in
average proficiency.
Of course, you're omitting the fact that there's a hell of a lot more
people now using computers - a lot of which would never have dreamed of
touching them before.
You obviously haven't met some of the people I have. People who were scared
of breaking the computer. People who couldn't figure out how to send an
email by themselves. People who just didn't *get* technology.
There are plenty of these people. They are your dentist, your aunt, your
mother. They are your postman, your boss, your lover. They are everywhere -
and they outnumber us.
Yes, Windows users are still in the majority. But eventually they will
get Linux desktops.
"Philip Callan" <ca******@shaw. ca> wrote in message
news:K5Mqc.5353 90$oR5.174740@p d7tw3no... William Ryan eMVP wrote:
Well, it was said somewhat flippantly. However I do think that if many
of the 'advocates' encouraged people to use Linux and OSS without calling
them stupid if they like Windows, it'd have a better image.
Liking Windows doesn't make you stupid, it makes you ignorant.
---What if you like Unix/Linux, Windows and MAC. For instance, I have a
linux firewall and use Apache as a web server for a lot of what I do. I
have a good amount of work that I need to do with Office and I find XP much
more convenient to use on my laptop. I also find doing graphics and
multimedia to be the most pleasant on Mac OS X. Am I ignorant becase of
this? There's stuff about all three environments that I like just like
there's stuff I don't like. As far as OSS in general, Apache is a killer
web server. However I think both Oracle and SQL Server have a lot more to
offer in terms of convenience and power than say, MySql (at least w/ it's
current implementation running 0.9.2 command center)
But hey, when you have a multi-billion dollar company, founded on the
premise of keeping people ignorant about their computers, and the
operating system they run, so that they can pay some 'MCSE' or 'MVP' to
come fix an operating system that should not have been let on the
Internet to begin with.
--That's not the premise of MS. There are a lot of people in the world who
aren't all that into computers and the easier they are to use, from their
perspsective, the better. Some people have other stuff to do than learn a
complex but powerful os. What the hell does my grandmother have to gain by
learning Linux over Windows when most of the people she knows use Windows
and given the fact she ain't gonna be around much longer and doesn't want to
spend all her time learning grep.
As far as the second part of your comment, what would Microsoft have to gain
by employing such a strategy? Do you really think Bill Gates is going direct
corporate policy in such a way that he'll build inferior stuff just so I can
go out and make money fixing it?
People are not stupid, everyone can /learn/, but Microsoft doesnt want
them too.
--Microsoft has NO control whatsoever over this. How can they stop me from
learning about other operating systems? Sure they can possibly keep me from
learning their trade secrets, but that's it. However there are tons of
examples one could cite that illustrate the exact opposite of your
contention.
People knew /MORE/ about the computers they ran before Windows95 hit the streets, since then its been a gradual decline in
average proficiency.
--How can you make this claim? There are more people using computers now
than there were pre Win95. More people on the internet too. And even if
your claim is correct, all that would be is a correlation.. how that's a
cause and effect relationship or even could be is beyond me.
Nonetheless, are you really trying to argue that on the whole, people are
less computer literate in the US for instance, in 2004 than they were in
1995? Come on, you can't possibly believe that
Thats one of the reasons people who have formed Windows habits find it
so difficult to migrate, they are so used to having their hand held and
choices made for them or without even letting them know a choice was
available, that it freaks them out having to actually make up their own
mind.
--What about all of the people that know there are choices available but
choose Windows anyway? How, if Windows is so inferior, do they so
overwhelming choose it in the first place? Maybe, just maybe, a lot of
people want their hand held and the value of those alternatives isn't there
for them. Once again, going back to the average granny, do you really think
she cares about Media Player vs Real Player? Even if she knew the
difference, do you really think most people care?
'liking' windows and 'respecting' are 2 different things, when I want to
play a game, or work in Adobe, I flip into WindowsXP to do it, as for
gaming, now that I have the ati drivers installed, I'm having tons of
fun playing ut2k4 20% faster than under Windoze.
Windows has it place and its purpose, but unlike what Microsoft wishes,
it is /NOT/ on the Internet.
Do you mean as a desktop accessing the internet or as servers running it?
If it's the former you have to be kidding. If it's the latter, then explain
why so many people use IIS and Windows even after they found out about
Linux. Are all of those people just ignorant or could it be many of them
made a conscious, informed decision albeit one that you don't agree with?
That's a pretty broad statement to make and it's a bit presumptuous to claim
that everyone who's running Wind2k, Win 2003 server etc could only have done
so out of ignorance.
--
W.G. Ryan, eMVP http://forums.devbuzz.com/ http://www.knowdotnet.com/williamryan.html http://www.msmvps.com/WilliamRyan/
The Lurking Horror wrote: On Wed, 19 May 2004 16:40:10 GMT, Philip Callan wrote:
People are not stupid, everyone can /learn/, but Microsoft doesnt want
them too. People knew /MORE/ about the computers they ran before
Windows95 hit the streets, since then its been a gradual decline in
average proficiency.
Of course, you're omitting the fact that there's a hell of a lot more
people now using computers - a lot of which would never have dreamed of
touching them before.
You obviously haven't met some of the people I have. People who were scared
of breaking the computer. People who couldn't figure out how to send an
email by themselves. People who just didn't *get* technology.
There are plenty of these people. They are your dentist, your aunt, your
mother. They are your postman, your boss, your lover. They are everywhere -
and they outnumber us.
And for people that have never touched a computer before, they have no
Window-ism's if you will, so they are virgin ground, they know of a
computer as an appliance, to get email or go on the web, if they bought
a linux pre-load, or had a friend build them a computer, and install
linux, the learning curve would be a little shorter, since they dont
have to un-learn behaviors.
And if I felt that my client was 'scared of breaking it' I /most/
assuredly would not install Windows, because unlike in linux, a
'regular' user account /can/ kill windows.
If they are afraid of breaking their computer, maybe it's because of all
the horror stories they heard from their friends/family about their
horrible windows machine that crashes all the time, or 'freezes' etc etc
They outnumber us, but if we give them an OS that they don't have to be
afraid of, and encourage them to learn it, pretty soon they are far more
proficient than Windows would have made them, and they are capable of
helping/teaching someone else.
As for not meeting some of the people you have, I'm pretty sure I
haven't met /any/ of the people you have, but I've met many classes of
computer user over the years, from attempting to teach basic computers
to immigrants taking ESL with a non-profit, to re-networking my church,
and many years of technical work, friends family and word of mouth.
I've only had one client tell me explicity that he didnt want to know a
'damn thing about that machine' just to put it in the room where the
'damn broken one' was, and to make sure their data made it across.
He knew what the machine was 'supposedly' doing, but it was all out of
sight out of mind type thing, obviously for a unattended box, I didnt
use windows, its now running Linux / Samba instead. Plus it firewalls
the office :)
Most everyone else wanted to watch what I was doing, and expressed a
desire to learn, these are the people that linux is good for, the more
you use it, the more you understand about the machine you use as a tool,
and as a side effect, you get more efficient.
On Wed, 19 May 2004 17:51:56 GMT, Philip Callan wrote: The Lurking Horror wrote: On Wed, 19 May 2004 16:40:10 GMT, Philip Callan wrote:
People are not stupid, everyone can /learn/, but Microsoft doesnt want
them too. People knew /MORE/ about the computers they ran before
Windows95 hit the streets, since then its been a gradual decline in
average proficiency.
Of course, you're omitting the fact that there's a hell of a lot more
people now using computers - a lot of which would never have dreamed of
touching them before.
You obviously haven't met some of the people I have. People who were scared
of breaking the computer. People who couldn't figure out how to send an
email by themselves. People who just didn't *get* technology.
There are plenty of these people. They are your dentist, your aunt, your
mother. They are your postman, your boss, your lover. They are everywhere -
and they outnumber us.
And for people that have never touched a computer before, they have no
Window-ism's if you will, so they are virgin ground, they know of a
computer as an appliance, to get email or go on the web, if they bought
a linux pre-load, or had a friend build them a computer, and install
linux, the learning curve would be a little shorter, since they dont
have to un-learn behaviors.
And if I felt that my client was 'scared of breaking it' I /most/
assuredly would not install Windows, because unlike in linux, a
'regular' user account /can/ kill windows.
If they are afraid of breaking their computer, maybe it's because of all
the horror stories they heard from their friends/family about their
horrible windows machine that crashes all the time, or 'freezes' etc etc
They outnumber us, but if we give them an OS that they don't have to be
afraid of, and encourage them to learn it, pretty soon they are far more
proficient than Windows would have made them, and they are capable of
helping/teaching someone else.
Sorry, you just lost your audience right there. Most people don't want to
learn it, help others learn it, or teach others how to use it. They just
want their email. They want to surf the web. That's it.
As for not meeting some of the people you have, I'm pretty sure I
haven't met /any/ of the people you have, but I've met many classes of
computer user over the years, from attempting to teach basic computers
to immigrants taking ESL with a non-profit, to re-networking my church,
and many years of technical work, friends family and word of mouth.
I've only had one client tell me explicity that he didnt want to know a
'damn thing about that machine' just to put it in the room where the
'damn broken one' was, and to make sure their data made it across.
This is the norm.
--
No one ever got fired for blaming Microsoft.
William Ryan eMVP wrote: ---What if you like Unix/Linux, Windows and MAC. For instance, I have a
linux firewall and use Apache as a web server for a lot of what I do. I
Then you would be helping to spread FUD about Linux as a server OS. In
other words, helping Gate$ and Ball-Me to keep Linux off the desktop --
where it belongs.
have a good amount of work that I need to do with Office and I find XP much
more convenient to use on my laptop. I also find doing graphics and
multimedia to be the most pleasant on Mac OS X. Am I ignorant becase of
this?
No, you're just several thousand bucks lighter in the wallet than
someone who can do the same on Linux.
There's stuff about all three environments that I like just like
there's stuff I don't like. As far as OSS in general, Apache is a killer
web server. However I think both Oracle and SQL Server have a lot more to
offer in terms of convenience and power than say, MySql (at least w/ it's
current implementation running 0.9.2 command center)
There's also PostgreSQL
--That's not the premise of MS. There are a lot of people in the world who
aren't all that into computers and the easier they are to use, from their
perspsective, the better.
But a computer that is a swiss cheese to viruses and crashes just will
doing simple web browsing is not /easier/ -- face it, M$ is just
selling people defective equipment. Pretty soon that MVP is going to
look like a badge from Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard.
Some people have other stuff to do than learn a
complex but powerful os. What the hell does my grandmother have to gain by
learning Linux over Windows when most of the people she knows use Windows
??? See -- that is the stupidiest thing ever written. You're
grandmother knows that she can send email using the TCP/IP protocol with
any OS that can network TCP/IP. Go ahead. Ask Gramma. She'll know.
As far as the second part of your comment, what would Microsoft have to gain by employing such a strategy? Do you really think Bill Gates is going direct
corporate policy in such a way that he'll build inferior stuff just so I can
go out and make money fixing it?
DING DING DING. WE HAVE A WINNER. DENSE BOY FIGURED IT OUT !!!!
--Microsoft has NO control whatsoever over this. How can they stop me from
learning about other operating systems?
1. Giving $$$ to schools under the guise of a phoney /Foundation/.
2. Using $$$ to buy off corporate leaders.
3. Subverting the Constitution and the Justice Department, making a
mockery of civil law, etc. etc. etc.
Nonetheless, are you really trying to argue that on the whole, people are
less computer literate in the US for instance, in 2004 than they were in
1995? Come on, you can't possibly believe that
Can you believe that the Soviet Union fell behind in technology during
the Stalin era because of suppression of outside facts?
Can you then believe that the U.S. with it's centrally controlled media,
which can be bought by M$ millions, might be brainwashing its people,
all the while the rest of the world is switching to Linux -- leaving the
US in a /backward/ state?
Do you mean as a desktop accessing the internet or as servers running it?
If it's the former you have to be kidding. If it's the latter, then explain
why so many people use IIS and Windows even after they found out about
Linux.
So they 'find out' about linux. Suppose they work for Citibank. Are
they going to bring in their own copy of Linux and install it? Get real.
The Lurking Horror wrote: On Wed, 19 May 2004 17:51:56 GMT, Philip Callan wrote:
They outnumber us, but if we give them an OS that they don't have to be
afraid of, and encourage them to learn it, pretty soon they are far more
proficient than Windows would have made them, and they are capable of
helping/teaching someone else.
Sorry, you just lost your audience right there. Most people don't want to
learn it, help others learn it, or teach others how to use it. They just
want their email. They want to surf the web. That's it.
You have to learn the basics, no matter what OS, and nothing says they
/have/ to assist others, just that after extend use of linux they will
be /capable/ of assisting others.
Like the MVP's, its a choice, they choose to assist others if that is in
their nature.
If they just want their email and the web, they should sell their
computer and buy WebTV, the web is a AFTERTHOUGHT, the Internet exists
without it you know, you dont need a P4 or 64bit processor to surf the
web and read email unless you run longhorn beta's :)
As for not meeting some of the people you have, I'm pretty sure I
haven't met /any/ of the people you have, but I've met many classes of
computer user over the years, from attempting to teach basic computers
to immigrants taking ESL with a non-profit, to re-networking my church,
and many years of technical work, friends family and word of mouth.
I've only had one client tell me explicity that he didnt want to know a
'damn thing about that machine' just to put it in the room where the
'damn broken one' was, and to make sure their data made it across.
This is the norm.
This is 1 client, out of I would guestimate, maybe about 250-300 in the
last 10+yrs of work.
This may be the norm for business managers in medium-large size
companies, or in the US, but I assure you Canadians are not so lax when
it comes to understanding or learning about the things they use each day.
William Ryan eMVP wrote: "Philip Callan" <ca******@shaw. ca> wrote in message
Liking Windows doesn't make you stupid, it makes you ignorant.
---What if you like Unix/Linux, Windows and MAC.
Then you realize that each system has its strengths, and show an open
mind. Mac's are sweet for video editing, my p4 rocks, but there are days
I wish I had a G5, thats for sure :)
But hey, when you have a multi-billion dollar company, founded on the
premise of keeping people ignorant about their computers, and the
operating system they run, so that they can pay some 'MCSE' or 'MVP' to
come fix an operating system that should not have been let on the
Internet to begin with.
--That's not the premise of MS. There are a lot of people in the world who
aren't all that into computers and the easier they are to use, from their
perspsective, the better.
You've obviously never seen a properly configured Linux terminal server
setup, 1 server, 25 stations, restricted applications for feeding orders
into the DB, nothing accessible/exported to the desktop /other than what
is needed/, if they login using the network account, they can get on the
web, send email, even use some IM (no files) but when they do so, they
are not in the group that can run/access the db and its associated pieces.
Ease of use, click click, web browser, click click, mail, boy thats hard.
Some people have other stuff to do than learn a
complex but powerful os.
Like downloading huge patches? Figuring out which patch to step out of
when it breaks existing applications or settings? Updating your virus
definitions? Running AdAware to clean some of the crap out of your
registry? manually editing registry keys out to prevent a virus from
auto-loading?
Yeah, learning to handle a fickle and at times /useless/ OS over and
over is much better than learning to do it properly ONCE.
What the hell does my grandmother have to gain by
learning Linux over Windows when most of the people she knows use Windows
Protection from a majority of viruses? freedom from the upgrade gerbil
wheel? freedom of her own machine and not having to agree to invasive
EULA's?
How do you know most of the people she knows use windows? I doubt you
asked, and you know what, /I doubt she asked either/.
The OS has fsck all to do with Web and Email.
and given the fact she ain't gonna be around much longer and doesn't want to
spend all her time learning grep.
Great, WHY WOULD SHE HAVE TO?
See, You obviously havent used linux in a while, if you assume that it
is all CLI, or only useable via the CLI.
There are people who change their Oil (clicking in a configuration
screen in a GUI) and people who change their transmission (CLI)
Depending on what you /want/ to do, dictates the commands/programs you
should familiarize yourself with.
You can easily configure a useable system that will access the web, play
mp3's, send email, watch flash animations, and most streaming movie
formats, that /never/ required a person to go to the CLI.
As far as the second part of your comment, what would Microsoft have to gain
by employing such a strategy? Do you really think Bill Gates is going direct
corporate policy in such a way that he'll build inferior stuff just so I can
go out and make money fixing it?
Uhh.... /YES/
Being a MVP, you may not know this, but have you looked at the Course,
and TEST fee's to obtain Microsoft Certifications recently?
Do you know how much money they made off the thousands of monkeys that
went through the MCSE program in the 90's ?
And all those people have (hopefully) started by fixing the machines,
and now (MS hopes) have advanced in their positions enough to influence
the purchasing of new machines/licensing.
Thay are the 'Microslaves' that people joke about, they have learned to
fix a inherently instable system, and their job depends on people 1)
Continuing to use the unstable Operating System and 2) Relying on
SOMEONE ELSE to fix it.
People are not stupid, everyone can /learn/, but Microsoft doesnt want
them too.
--Microsoft has NO control whatsoever over this. How can they stop me from
learning about other operating systems?
Bullshit, you take a look at the major textbooks for people taking their
MBA, there is little to no reference to linux, and its always tagged as
a 'hobbyist' OS, even though by the times many of these textbooks were
printed, linux was 10+ years old, and in major use as webservers and
databases, and had been adopted by IBM.
Microsoft has paid for 1000's of studies, knocking linux and supressing
its adpotion as long as possible, if you doubt me, look back to the
original Halloween documents, and realize the tactics they are willing
to use to suppress YOUR (the consumers) choices, and knowledge of
alternatives.
People knew /MORE/ about the computers they ran before
Windows95 hit the streets, since then its been a gradual decline in
average proficiency.
--How can you make this claim? There are more people using computers now
than there were pre Win95. More people on the internet too. And even if
your claim is correct, all that would be is a correlation.. how that's a
cause and effect relationship or even could be is beyond me.
Because it was Windows 95+ and its ease-of-use for every 12 year old
with a AOL CD that filled the lower reaches of the net with fuckwits and
trolls.
The Internet was not perfect, but pre WWW and pre Win95, the average
intelligence of a Internet user was generally higher, and they tended to
be a bit more polite, because there were not as many ways to hide behind
anonimity.
Nonetheless, are you really trying to argue that on the whole, people are
less computer literate in the US for instance, in 2004 than they were in
1995? Come on, you can't possibly believe that
Sorry to dissapoint, but I /do/ believe it.
It used to take some skill, and intelligence to get on the Internet, or
to use a computer in general, reduce the amount of skill and
intelligence required, guess what, MATURITY and RESPONSIBILITY are
lowered as well.
You cant expect a 13 year old kid to clean his room, or walk the dog on
a regular basis sometimes, he's going to worry about patching his
operating system?
Windows pushed the 'entry level' for computers and the Internet /below
the waterline/ and we are all drowning in Viruses and spam /because of it/
Thats one of the reasons people who have formed Windows habits find it
so difficult to migrate, they are so used to having their hand held and
choices made for them or without even letting them know a choice was
available, that it freaks them out having to actually make up their own
mind.
--What about all of the people that know there are choices available but
choose Windows anyway?
Good for them, I just wish they would STFU about their viruses and
worms, and keep the hell off the internet if they cant excercise due
diligence.
How, if Windows is so inferior, do they so
overwhelming choose it in the first place?
Oh come now, you may be MVP, but dont kiss their ass acting stupid too much.
Pre-loads.
You and I know that as long as contracts exist with OEM's that Microsoft
will still count for a higher % of 'desktops shipped'
But HP, IBM, Dell etc are waking up.
And once they start selling larger numbers of desktops, they will be
able to undercut those retailers that still pre-load windows and charge
the windows tax on a new machine, and if /they/ want to stay in
business, MS changes its pricing, or they change the OS they load in
order to stay competitive.
Maybe, just maybe, a lot of
people want their hand held and the value of those alternatives isn't there
for them.
Then they should get a Mac, by far the most user-friendly systems I've
had to work with, and a nice common hardware base makes diagnosing
easier, less driver conflicts.
'liking' windows and 'respecting' are 2 different things, when I want to
play a game, or work in Adobe, I flip into WindowsXP to do it, as for
gaming, now that I have the ati drivers installed, I'm having tons of
fun playing ut2k4 20% faster than under Windoze.
Windows has it place and its purpose, but unlike what Microsoft wishes,
it is /NOT/ on the Internet.
Do you mean as a desktop accessing the internet or as servers running it?
If it's the former you have to be kidding.
It is BOTH, and I'm not.
It is not secure enough to be allowed unprotected on the Internet. It
can go on the Internet via a firewall or router, but I honestly believe
that with the rapidity that Worms and Viruses are being released and
developed, and the lag time between release and a Antivirus signature
file being available, no Windows box should be DIRECTLY connected to the
Internet.
If it's the latter, then explain
why so many people use IIS and Windows even after they found out about
Linux.
Maybe because MS keeps lying to them about linux having a higher TCO,
and filling their mailboxes with bullshit studies about how difficult
and expensive migration will be, and how much better the next windows
will be....
Trust me, as more and more companies are calculating the patch/antivirus
costs in Overtime into their TCO's they are realizing that instead of
saving them money, their windows machines are COSTING them money.....
Are all of those people just ignorant or could it be many of them
made a conscious, informed decision albeit one that you don't agree with?
I think you confuse ignorant (unaware of a fact) with ignorant (belligerent)
If they chose Windows machines over linux for a Internet facing site,
then they didn't make an 'informed' decision.
I don't think any CEO who SERIOUSLY read up on the security flaws and
problems with windows, and consulted anyone without a vested interest in
Microsoft, would willingly choose to expose their company data to the
world by choosing an insecure server.
That's a pretty broad statement to make and it's a bit presumptuous to claim
that everyone who's running Wind2k, Win 2003 server etc could only have done
so out of ignorance.
I wont make any statement about W2k3, as I havent tried it yet, I have a
perfectly suitable server and desktop OS in one, and I have no wish to
step any further down the upgrade wheel, and I tell clients the same,
the longer they stick with Microsoft, the harder it will be to break
away, even non-techies understand vendor lock in.
Plus, showing business's the Ernie Ball story, and how Microsoft/BSA
treats their customers, and how desperate they are to gouge more $ out
of people is a wake up call.
Anyone who /pays/ thousands of dollars for an operating system that
isn't guaranteed for /any use/ with the manufacturer absolving
themselves of all legal responsibility in event of a problem, and taking
up 3 pages of legalese restricting your rights, and increasing their
own.....
Yes, I call that ignorance.
Can you please restrict this type of discussion to COLA and other advocacy
groups?
This group is intended to serve technical dotnet developers and users, not
advocates for or against a particular company, issue, business model, etc.
Thanks
--
Dino Chiesa
Microsoft Developer Division
d i n o c h @ OmitThis . m i c r o s o f t . c o m
"Ministry Of Jute" <al*******@jute .net> wrote in message
news:5c******** ********@newsre ad1.news.pas.ea rthlink.net... William Ryan eMVP wrote:
---What if you like Unix/Linux, Windows and MAC. For instance, I have a
linux firewall and use Apache as a web server for a lot of what I do. I
Then you would be helping to spread FUD about Linux as a server OS. In
other words, helping Gate$ and Ball-Me to keep Linux off the desktop --
where it belongs.
have a good amount of work that I need to do with Office and I find XP
much more convenient to use on my laptop. I also find doing graphics and
multimedia to be the most pleasant on Mac OS X. Am I ignorant becase of
this?
No, you're just several thousand bucks lighter in the wallet than
someone who can do the same on Linux.
There's stuff about all three environments that I like just like
there's stuff I don't like. As far as OSS in general, Apache is a
killer web server. However I think both Oracle and SQL Server have a lot more
to offer in terms of convenience and power than say, MySql (at least w/
it's current implementation running 0.9.2 command center)
There's also PostgreSQL
--That's not the premise of MS. There are a lot of people in the world
who aren't all that into computers and the easier they are to use, from
their perspsective, the better.
But a computer that is a swiss cheese to viruses and crashes just will
doing simple web browsing is not /easier/ -- face it, M$ is just
selling people defective equipment. Pretty soon that MVP is going to
look like a badge from Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard.
Some people have other stuff to do than learn a
complex but powerful os. What the hell does my grandmother have to gain
by learning Linux over Windows when most of the people she knows use
Windows
??? See -- that is the stupidiest thing ever written. You're
grandmother knows that she can send email using the TCP/IP protocol with
any OS that can network TCP/IP. Go ahead. Ask Gramma. She'll know.
As far as the second part of your comment, what would Microsoft have to
gain by employing such a strategy? Do you really think Bill Gates is going
direct corporate policy in such a way that he'll build inferior stuff just so I
can go out and make money fixing it?
DING DING DING. WE HAVE A WINNER. DENSE BOY FIGURED IT OUT !!!!
--Microsoft has NO control whatsoever over this. How can they stop me
from learning about other operating systems?
1. Giving $$$ to schools under the guise of a phoney /Foundation/.
2. Using $$$ to buy off corporate leaders.
3. Subverting the Constitution and the Justice Department, making a
mockery of civil law, etc. etc. etc.
Nonetheless, are you really trying to argue that on the whole, people
are less computer literate in the US for instance, in 2004 than they were in
1995? Come on, you can't possibly believe that
Can you believe that the Soviet Union fell behind in technology during
the Stalin era because of suppression of outside facts?
Can you then believe that the U.S. with it's centrally controlled media,
which can be bought by M$ millions, might be brainwashing its people,
all the while the rest of the world is switching to Linux -- leaving the
US in a /backward/ state?
Do you mean as a desktop accessing the internet or as servers running
it? If it's the former you have to be kidding. If it's the latter, then
explain why so many people use IIS and Windows even after they found out about
Linux.
So they 'find out' about linux. Suppose they work for Citibank. Are
they going to bring in their own copy of Linux and install it? Get real.
Sorry about that Dino, I know better than responding to this.
--
W.G. Ryan MVP Windows - Embedded www.devbuzz.com www.knowdotnet.com http://www.msmvps.com/williamryan/
"Dino Chiesa [Microsoft]" <di****@online. microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:%2******** ********@TK2MSF TNGP12.phx.gbl. .. Can you please restrict this type of discussion to COLA and other advocacy
groups?
This group is intended to serve technical dotnet developers and users, not
advocates for or against a particular company, issue, business model, etc.
Thanks
--
Dino Chiesa
Microsoft Developer Division
d i n o c h @ OmitThis . m i c r o s o f t . c o m
"Ministry Of Jute" <al*******@jute .net> wrote in message
news:5c******** ********@newsre ad1.news.pas.ea rthlink.net... William Ryan eMVP wrote:
---What if you like Unix/Linux, Windows and MAC. For instance, I have
a linux firewall and use Apache as a web server for a lot of what I do.
I
Then you would be helping to spread FUD about Linux as a server OS. In
other words, helping Gate$ and Ball-Me to keep Linux off the desktop --
where it belongs.
have a good amount of work that I need to do with Office and I find XP much more convenient to use on my laptop. I also find doing graphics and
multimedia to be the most pleasant on Mac OS X. Am I ignorant becase
of this?
No, you're just several thousand bucks lighter in the wallet than
someone who can do the same on Linux.
There's stuff about all three environments that I like just like
there's stuff I don't like. As far as OSS in general, Apache is a killer web server. However I think both Oracle and SQL Server have a lot
more to offer in terms of convenience and power than say, MySql (at least w/ it's current implementation running 0.9.2 command center)
There's also PostgreSQL
--That's not the premise of MS. There are a lot of people in the
world who aren't all that into computers and the easier they are to use, from their perspsective, the better.
But a computer that is a swiss cheese to viruses and crashes just will
doing simple web browsing is not /easier/ -- face it, M$ is just
selling people defective equipment. Pretty soon that MVP is going to
look like a badge from Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard.
Some people have other stuff to do than learn a
complex but powerful os. What the hell does my grandmother have to
gain by learning Linux over Windows when most of the people she knows use Windows
??? See -- that is the stupidiest thing ever written. You're
grandmother knows that she can send email using the TCP/IP protocol with
any OS that can network TCP/IP. Go ahead. Ask Gramma. She'll know.
As far as the second part of your comment, what would Microsoft have to gain by employing such a strategy? Do you really think Bill Gates is going direct corporate policy in such a way that he'll build inferior stuff just so
I can go out and make money fixing it?
DING DING DING. WE HAVE A WINNER. DENSE BOY FIGURED IT OUT !!!!
--Microsoft has NO control whatsoever over this. How can they stop me from learning about other operating systems?
1. Giving $$$ to schools under the guise of a phoney /Foundation/.
2. Using $$$ to buy off corporate leaders.
3. Subverting the Constitution and the Justice Department, making a
mockery of civil law, etc. etc. etc.
Nonetheless, are you really trying to argue that on the whole, people are less computer literate in the US for instance, in 2004 than they were
in 1995? Come on, you can't possibly believe that
Can you believe that the Soviet Union fell behind in technology during
the Stalin era because of suppression of outside facts?
Can you then believe that the U.S. with it's centrally controlled media,
which can be bought by M$ millions, might be brainwashing its people,
all the while the rest of the world is switching to Linux -- leaving the
US in a /backward/ state?
Do you mean as a desktop accessing the internet or as servers running
it? If it's the former you have to be kidding. If it's the latter, then explain why so many people use IIS and Windows even after they found out about
Linux.
So they 'find out' about linux. Suppose they work for Citibank. Are
they going to bring in their own copy of Linux and install it? Get
real.
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