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kelvlam <ke*****@gmail. composted :
>Sorry I haven't read through the FAQ. I will do so now.

The newsgroup FAQ has not been posted here for some considerable while.

The latest version I know of is 8.1 - 2005-11-05
but I think the Web site serves 8.0 - 2004-03-15

We cannot expect new readers, especially those entering via Web pages,
to know of the FAQ without a regular posting of something with a
suitable Subject, whether it be a FAQ or a FAQ pointer - and the Subject
must be such as they will understand ("Quick Answers" is OK; IMHO "META"
is not).
As far as I know, the existing technical content is correct; but the FAQ
could IMHO be improved by re-wording here and there. I don't know how
many <FAQENTRYitem s remain outstanding.
Is it time for someone else, someone who (unlike me) has access to a
system which can post regularly, to take over the FAQ? ISTM that those
from smaller countries in mainland Europe, having been taught properly,
seem to write good straightforward clear English.
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon. co.uk Turnpike v4.00 IE 4 ©
<URL:http://www.jibbering.c om/faq/>? JL/RC: FAQ of news:comp.lang. javascript
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/js-index.htmjscr maths, dates, sources.
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.
Jul 18 '06 #1
19 1953
Dr John Stockton wrote:
ISTM that
those from smaller countries in mainland Europe, having been taught
properly, seem to write good straightforward clear English.
Your xenophobia is so blatant as to be amusing.

Do those from smaller countries in mainland Europe, having been taught to be
snobbish and elitist, also seem to write sentences using absurdly dense
abbreviations, references to obfuscated url's in signatures, and web pages
so bland and ugly as to be unreadable?
Just curious!

--
Matt Kruse
http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com
http://www.AjaxToolbox.com
Jul 18 '06 #2
Dr John Stockton said the following on 7/18/2006 1:00 PM:
kelvlam <ke*****@gmail. composted :
>Sorry I haven't read through the FAQ. I will do so now.


The newsgroup FAQ has not been posted here for some considerable while.
But links to it, and sub-articles of it, are posted at least daily. Many
times more than once a day.
The latest version I know of is 8.1 - 2005-11-05
That version is online, but not on jibbering.
<URL: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/cljfaq/>

It was put there, from your version, just so the latest would be available.
but I think the Web site serves 8.0 - 2004-03-15
It does. And if nothing else it could be updated to a static file so
that at least the latest version is on the website.
We cannot expect new readers, especially those entering via Web pages,
to know of the FAQ without a regular posting of something with a
suitable Subject, whether it be a FAQ or a FAQ pointer - and the Subject
must be such as they will understand ("Quick Answers" is OK; IMHO "META"
is not).
Either/Or, people do not read that far into the subject line.
As far as I know, the existing technical content is correct; but the FAQ
could IMHO be improved by re-wording here and there. I don't know how
many <FAQ**TRYitem s remain outstanding.
That shouldn't be hard to determine. Even using Google Groups and
searching for the phrase and then sorting by date and going to the date
of the last update.
Is it time for someone else, someone who (unlike me) has access to a
system which can post regularly, to take over the FAQ?
If nothing else, I can post it manually with an FAQ Poster name until it
can be automated again. It won't be at the same time, but I can post it
Monday Wednesday and Friday. I don't care to "take over" it for editing
purposes but I can post it until......
ISTM that those from smaller countries in mainland Europe, having been
taught properly, seem to write good straightforward clear English.
Ahh, couldn't even discuss the group FAQ without letting your
anti-American sentiments display?

Your ignorance is overwhelming at times.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javas cript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Temporarily at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/cljfaq/
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
Jul 19 '06 #3
Matt Kruse said the following on 7/18/2006 3:06 PM:
Dr John Stockton wrote:
>ISTM that
those from smaller countries in mainland Europe, having been taught
properly, seem to write good straightforward clear English.

Your xenophobia is so blatant as to be amusing.
Right idea, wrong term. John doesn't suffer from zenophobia, but
stupidity isn't a condition so he can't suffer from that either
(although he does).

It is not all foreign things, it is strictly anti-American and anything
to do with it. Irony is that he uses many many American inventions to
spout his anti-American bull crap.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javas cript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq & newsgroup weekly
Temporarily at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/cljfaq/
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/
Jul 19 '06 #4
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:20:56 -0400, Randy Webb
<Hi************ @aol.comwrote:
>Dr John Stockton said the f
>but I think the Web site serves 8.0 - 2004-03-15

It does. And if nothing else it could be updated to a static file so
that at least the latest version is on the website.
An email highlighting that fact would've been great! I've updated the
faq site to that one, automated posting - I can provide a box with a
news.individual account, and if you're "known" to me then I can
provide a log on, I unfortunately simply don't have any obvious time
to get it updated to automated posting.

Help of course welcome.

Jim.
Jul 19 '06 #5
Dr John Stockton wrote:
[...]
We cannot expect new readers, especially those entering via Web pages,
to know of the FAQ without a regular posting of something with a
suitable Subject, whether it be a FAQ or a FAQ pointer - and the Subject
must be such as they will understand ("Quick Answers" is OK; IMHO "META"
is not).
As far as I know, the existing technical content is correct; but the FAQ
could IMHO be improved by re-wording here and there. I don't know how
many <FAQENTRYitem s remain outstanding.
I think maintenance is one of the major challenges to guarantee a FAQ's
quality. One should ideally use some kind of system that constantly
reminds of the FAQ's content. Personally I like the idea of
comp.lang.perl. misc. An automated program posts one FAQ-entry a day to
the NG. If someone has a comment on that, it might be considered to add
it to, or rewrite, the FAQ entry in question. I think it's a great way
to keep things up-to-date (though I'm not saying that the Perl FAQ is
the ideal FAQ). Maybe http://faq.perl.org/ could be worth exploring to
see how things work there.
Is it time for someone else, someone who (unlike me) has access to a
system which can post regularly, to take over the FAQ?
I could make such a tool, that is, if you and the regulars of this
group wish to do so. It should consist of a logic and well-thought
structure. I think the current FAQ could be an excellent start, but I'm
convinced that it could cover much more topics. The great thing is that
there is much material available already, I think it would be great to
gather the information into one general list. I think it are the
unified contributions that make a FAQ strong.

One login/password could serve to maintain the FAQ. Probably it's a
good idea that everybody would keep his own topics; we'ld need a sort
of gentlemen's agreement for that. Or I could write a system with many
passwords so everyone has only access to his own FAQ entries.

Unfortunately, I don't have too much time on my hands to actively work
on and maintain the FAQ. Though the temptation to write an entry here
or there will probably pop up anyhow :-) I could provide in the
technical background though and guarantee its correct working. I've
worked on many MySQL/CGI software projects over the past 7 years and I
cannot imagine that this relatively simple program could ever be
problematic. I have good contacts within pair Networks
(www.pair.com/www.quickserve.com), they are one of USA's largest
non-adult hosting companies. I'm quite sure they will give free app
hosting without need to mention their name/link. If you want to make
money, we could consider to add their name/link on each automated post,
but personally I wouldn't do that.

Another thing that comes to mind is that each FAQ entry should be
rather concise, and of course to-the-point and coherent. I think it
could certainly become a useful and maybe even the "de-facto" standard
for common javascript problems.

Vanity is of humans, and I think we can use this aspect to improve the
FAQ. The author(s) of a contribution can be mentionned below each
entry. Contributors might be sensitive for that, and as long as it
serves the FAQ, I don't see any drawbacks here.

I think a first major issue would be to make a solid structure that (a)
is more-or-less complete, (b) leaves room for future extensions and (c)
is intuitive to navigate.

In the long run there are a few things to consider. Not all current
contributors will remain interested to maintain their entries. I think
that problem can be dealt with; "new" regulars will appear in CLJ and
they can be invited to take over FAQ-entries after they've proven their
qualities. Obviously, one should try to make each entry as timeless,
qualitative and complete as possible. Another point is the continuity
of the technical background. As pair Networks has a long-proven
tradition of quality hosting with many dedicated machines, I think that
this shouldn't be a problem at all. About myself: I'm in business since
1999 and I can say I've solid business for many years to come.

I'ld be happy to know what you think about this :-)
ISTM that those from smaller countries in mainland Europe, having
been taught properly, seem to write good straightforward clear English.
The issue is that non-native English speakers don't have much choice if
they want to express a software problem in a language that's not their
own. Especially in the beginning, you are forced to write as clear and
straightforward as possible, just because you don't understand the
exact finetunings and the connotations that words, sentences or
language constructions might have, while they are mostly immediately
obvious for native speakers. You can't translate Shakespeare to
Schwarzenegger-English, but you can describe a technical problem in
Terminator-language. I even think non-native English speakers have an
advantage here; they can't easily hide behind vague blah-blah or
unreadable terminology.

--
Bart

Jul 19 '06 #6
JRS: In article <e9********@new s4.newsguy.com> , dated Tue, 18 Jul 2006
14:06:07 remote, seen in news:comp.lang. javascript, Matt Kruse
<ne********@mat tkruse.composte d :
>Dr John Stockton wrote:
>ISTM that
those from smaller countries in mainland Europe, having been taught
properly, seem to write good straightforward clear English.

Your xenophobia is so blatant as to be amusing.
Either you do not understand the difference between xenophobia and
xenophilia, or you are unaware of (a) what countries are, and are not,
basically in mainland Europe, (b) the relative sizes of European
countries. Or, of course, both.

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon. co.uk Turnpike v4.00 IE 4 ©
<URL:http://www.jibbering.c om/faq/>? JL/RC: FAQ of news:comp.lang. javascript
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/js-index.htmjscr maths, dates, sources.
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.
Jul 19 '06 #7
Dr John Stockton wrote:
Either you do not understand the difference between xenophobia and
xenophilia
Possibly.
or you are unaware of (a) what countries are, and are not,
basically in mainland Europe
Possibly.
(b) the relative sizes of European
countries.
Possibly.

What I do know for sure is that your assumptions and generalizations about
people based on their physical location and country of origin make you look
foolish.

--
Matt Kruse
http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com
http://www.AjaxToolbox.com
Jul 19 '06 #8
Ivo
"Matt Kruse" wrote:
Dr John Stockton wrote
>what countries are, and are not
What I do know for sure is
death and taxes, all else is theory. Aren't we getting a bit off topic,
guys? Isn't that what this group suffers from most? I am from Holland, the
largest of the little countries, and the smallest of the big brothers on the
European block. The Javascript language transcends all that, as Bart Van der
Donck pointed out in another branch of this thread.
If this or any FAQ is to be of any value, it needs to change when
circumstances change, which they do continuously. What is the plan to get it
on the road again then, where lies the ultimate responsibility? Hadn't the
brave new anarchistic internet done with all that? Gentleman's agreements,
like others, rely not on vanity alone.
It is obvious that many people care about c.l.j. passionately, and plenty of
others also, but less, we all want the one and only FAQ to be perfect, but
what is to the point at one point in the web will never be so again, history
learns. Wouldn't a wikipedialike structure, where all may contribute on the
spot, with or without password, be conceivable?
hth
ivo
Jul 19 '06 #9
JRS: In article <44************ ***********@new s.wanadoo.nl>, dated Wed,
19 Jul 2006 20:47:13 remote, seen in news:comp.lang. javascript, Ivo
<no@thank.youpo sted :
>It is obvious that many people care about c.l.j. passionately, and plenty of
others also, but less, we all want the one and only FAQ to be perfect, but
what is to the point at one point in the web will never be so again, history
learns. Wouldn't a wikipedialike structure, where all may contribute on the
spot, with or without password, be conceivable?
It would be conceivable - indeed, I don't know what's on Wiki itself.

It could be a useful adjunct, but it could not rightly replace a
properly maintained newsgroup FAQ.

A proper newsgroup FAQ is maintained by a chosen individual; but, when
it is posted regularly in the group, the regulars can take joint
responsibility for reviewing it and ensuring that it is free of error.

One can see, from the alleged answers posted in this group by newcomers
whose estimate of their own ability greatly exceeds their experience,
knowledge, and sagacity (and also from the quality of topic-FAQ sites
that contain code collected from or provided by multiple sources), how
bad a result could come from unrestricted Wiki editing. ISTR that the
absent but unlamented one was proposing to alter true Wiki's news-
etiquette materials to agree with his own national practices.

So, if someone wants such, let it be created; and let it be cited and
reviewed for quality in the true newsgroup FAQ.

Note : we have already in this thread two fine examples of the
comprehensibili ty of English written by those in the smaller countries
of Europe in which English is properly taught.
ISTM that BVdD's proposal of posting parts-for-comment is an excellent
scheme; the individual parts X.Y are mostly not too large. Section 1
could be split into two or three; Section 2.3 could be split into, say,
General, Questions, Responses; Section 3.2 could be subdivided.

Some parts of 2.3 could be reworded more positively, on psychological
grounds - e.g.
CURRENT : 'Help!' or 'I hate Netscape!' are not nearly as useful to
contributors who do not read every post as 'parseInt("09") !=9'.
ALTERED : Subject lines such as "parseInt(' 09') != 9" or "Javascript
formatter?" are much more useful than ones such as "Help!" or "I hate
Netscape!".

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon. co.uk Turnpike v4.00 IE 4 ©
<URL:http://www.jibbering.c om/faq/>? JL/RC: FAQ of news:comp.lang. javascript
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/js-index.htmjscr maths, dates, sources.
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.
Jul 20 '06 #10

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