Why is Firefox complaining with this error:
------------------------------------------------------------
missing ) after argument list
setTimeout('bre akOut',5000);
------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the HTML that I'm producing:
<html>
<head>
<script type="text/javascript">
<!--
function breakOut() {
top.location.hr ef = 'https://foo.com';
}
// -->
</script>
<body onLoad="setTime out('breakOut() ',5ØØØ);">
You have been logged out of the control panel due to inactivity for
your security.
</body>
</html>
Dec 14 '05
69  16900 
Matt Kruse wrote: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: No. All UAs have to recognize the `script' element since HTML 3.2
and to ignore it if not applicable.
Your assumption is that everyone is using a browser which supports HTML 3.2
or higher.
While this may be a realistic assumption, in theory any user could be using
an ancient browser.
.... or have a personal reason to support an ancient browser. If I like
to have my page rendered nicely in NCSA Mosaic then why should it be
prohibited by anyone? - while supporting not too much younger IE 4.x is
supposed to be a valid (or even welcomed) action?
Also let do not mix the terms "harmful" and "not necessary".
<!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft and till
now and for forever. (Unlike by the way [CDATA] block which is *XML
tag* and has nothing to do with HTML). So <!-- --> is no more "harmful"
than <html> or <body>
Is it necessary? - *Mostly* no. But if one likes to use it - let's not
make a crime from it. It is an overkill precaution, but no more
*criminal* or *overkill* then checking
if (document.getEl ementById)
The chances to be useful in both cases are equal (somewhere around
0.001%) but still above zero.
Matt Kruse wrote: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: No. All UAs have to recognize the `script' element since HTML 3.2
and to ignore it if not applicable.
Your assumption is that everyone is using a browser which supports HTML
3.2 or higher.
While this may be a realistic assumption, in theory any user could
be using an ancient browser. And you like theory quite a bit.
Both in theory and in practice, RFC2854 as of June 2000 (that is 5 years
and 6 months ago), obsoletes _all_ HTML versions prior to 3.2 (which was
introduced on January 14, 1997, 9 years and 11 months ago!), hence
obsoletes all pre-3.2 UAs (which would not be usable today anyway). And
even if there were such an obsolete UA still in use (which includes that
it would need to be usable on current operating systems and hardware), it
would not (be allowed to) render content within the `head' element as that
has not changed since HTML 1.0.
I am completely sure I mentioned that before.
BTW: A nice resource I have found is
<URL:http://www.yourhtmlsou rce.com/starthere/historyofhtml.h tml>
PointedEars
VK wrote: Also let do not mix the terms "harmful" and "not necessary".
<!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft and till now
and for forever.
Nonsense! `<!' introduces an SGML declaration, `--' starts and ends a
comment within an SGML declaration, and `>' ends the declaration. It
is basically `<!>' to an SGML parser, an empty declaration. Everything
else is tag soup behavior that cannot be assumed. Which is why Mozilla/5.0
will not consider <!------> a closed comment in Strict Mode and does not
render the adjacent markup.
(Unlike by the way [CDATA] block which is *XML tag*
Nonsense! CDATA (Character DATA) is an SGML data type and it is possible
to declare data CDATA using the respective declaration in XML, which is an
SGML subset:
<![CDATA[
This is declared CDATA content if it was not CDATA
]]>
and has nothing to do with HTML).
Which is why it is harmful in XHTML, too.
So <!-- --> is no more "harmful" than <html> or <body>
Within CDATA, which is BTW the _default_ for the content of the `script'
element in HTML, '<!-- ... -->' is _not_ an empty declaration which is why
an SGML parser would pass it to the script engine could be passed it as-is
which would be a syntax error. As neither a HTML UA nor a script engine
is required to ignore that, the label "potentiall y harmful" is justified.
Even if the voices in your head tell something different.
Sigh. [psf 10.1]
PointedEars
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: VK wrote:
Also let do not mix the terms "harmful" and "not necessary".
<!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft and till now
and for forever.
Nonsense! `<!' introduces an SGML declaration,
What in the holly name any SGML issues have to do with someting loaded
as "text/html" content type?
But I'm glad you brought some twilight "shining" on this question. Now
I will never use any doctype declarations and I will stop *anyone* from
suggesting them. Really: how can we imply a desclaration written with
brute violation of ... uhm... *SGML* standards plus potentially
*harmful*?
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
where:
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd>
....
<!--====== Imported Names ==========-->
.... etc.
DOCTYPE - simply say NO!
VK wrote: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: VK wrote: > Also let do not mix the terms "harmful" and "not necessary".
>
> <!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft and till
> now and for forever. Nonsense! `<!' introduces an SGML declaration,
What in the holly name any SGML issues have to do with someting loaded
as "text/html" content type?
Because HTML is an SGML application. If you had read _any_ HTML Spec,
you would have known.
But I'm glad you brought some twilight "shining" on this question. Now
I will never use any doctype declarations and I will stop anyone from
suggesting them.
That is typical of you. Why avoid mistakes when it is possible to mask
them and get away with it? You are nothing but a poser, and your advice
is harmful or potentially harmful most of the time. Go away.
PointedEars
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@we b.de> wrote in
news:21******** ********@Pointe dEars.de: VK wrote:
Also let do not mix the terms "harmful" and "not necessary".
<!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft and till
now and for forever.
Nonsense! `<!' introduces an SGML declaration, `--' starts and ends a
comment within an SGML declaration, and `>' ends the declaration. It
is basically `<!>' to an SGML parser, an empty declaration.
Everything else is tag soup behavior that cannot be assumed. Which is
why Mozilla/5.0 will not consider <!------> a closed comment in Strict
Mode and does not render the adjacent markup.
What a load of unadulterated bandwidth waste yet again from you!!!
Take note of the following reasoning:
The letters 'c', 'a', 's', and 'e' by the themselves have certain
properties and characteristics which have meaning as characters to
Javascript, but when I put them together like this: "case"
then they become a reserved word in this interpreted language.
Isn't it funny how that works?
What would you do by your "reasoning" as exemplified above: you would
insist the characters must be considered IN and OF themselves and not be
considered in a context of "grouping" them thusly, and thus, in effect, you
would forbid the notion of words and even of Javascript itself. (I
sometimes wonder if I shouldn't do a search to see if you have already
commented on the logical non-existence or impossibility of Javascript
itself, among other ruminations involving contemplation of the navel.)
But if you don't believe me, maybe you'd like to argue with the standards-
making body called the W3 Consortium:
[from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/intro/sgmltut.html]
3.2.4 Comments
HTML comments have the following syntax:
<!-- this is a comment -->
<!-- and so is this one,
which occupies more than one line -->
White space is not permitted between the markup declaration open
delimiter("<!") and the comment open delimiter ("--"), but is permitted
between the comment close delimiter ("--") and the markup declaration
close delimiter (">"). A common error is to include a string of hyphens
("---") within a comment. Authors should avoid putting two or more
adjacent hyphens inside comments.
Information that appears between comments has no special meaning (e.g.,
character references are not interpreted as such).
Note that comments are markup.
CC: your response to this particular discussion to
to************* *******@w3.org.
(Unlike by the way [CDATA] block which is *XML tag*
Nonsense! CDATA (Character DATA) is an SGML data type and it is
possible to declare data CDATA using the respective declaration in
XML, which is an SGML subset:
<![CDATA[
This is declared CDATA content if it was not CDATA
]]>
and has nothing to do with HTML).
Which is why it is harmful in XHTML, too.
So <!-- --> is no more "harmful" than <html> or <body>
Within CDATA, which is BTW the _default_ for the content of the
`script' element in HTML, '<!-- ... -->' is _not_ an empty declaration
which is why an SGML parser would pass it to the script engine could
be passed it as-is which would be a syntax error. As neither a HTML
UA nor a script engine is required to ignore that, the label
"potentiall y harmful" is justified.
Why would an HTML user agent be parsing/interpreting content it has no
business parsing/interpreting (such as script element content)?
As for script interpreters, if they interpret HTML comment tags within
their own comment blocks, then they deserve to choke on whatever it is they
are voluntarily swallowing and should not be swallowing.
The model for creating a universal standard was set long ago with the
development of the handgun. As long as the developers agree to stick to
the standards where they exist, why will they intentionally produce
something that goes beyond the constraints of the framework set for them,
especially when in all likelihood they may do more harm than good in
"adding features" where none are called for? Why claim to render HTML
documents and not claim to interpret Javascript, but put an interpreter in
your product anyway and not tell the user, i.e., refuse to ignore what you
should be ignoring as a developer?
Even if the voices in your head tell something different.
If a parser doesn't get an indication of the type of document it is
parsing, should it even be exposing itself to "danger" or "harm" in the
first place by attempting to read it? Seriously....
Sigh. [psf 10.1]
PointedEars
Patient Guy wrote: Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@we b.de> wrote [...]: VK wrote: Also let do not mix the terms "harmful" and "not necessary".
<!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft and till
now and for forever.
Nonsense! `<!' introduces an SGML declaration, `--' starts and ends a
comment within an SGML declaration, and `>' ends the declaration. It
is basically `<!>' to an SGML parser, an empty declaration.
Everything else is tag soup behavior that cannot be assumed. Which is
why Mozilla/5.0 will not consider <!------> a closed comment in Strict
Mode and does not render the adjacent markup.
What a load of unadulterated bandwidth waste yet again from you!!!
[...]
[from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/intro/sgmltut.html]
| 3.2 SGML constructs used in HTML
|
| The following sections introduce SGML constructs that are used in HTML.
| [...]
3.2.4 Comments
HTML comments have the following syntax:
<!-- this is a comment -->
<!-- and so is this one,
which occupies more than one line -->
White space is not permitted between the markup declaration open
delimiter("<!") and the comment open delimiter ("--"), but is permitted
between the comment close delimiter ("--") and the markup declaration
close delimiter (">"). A common error is to include a string of hyphens
("---") within a comment. Authors should avoid putting two or more
adjacent hyphens inside comments.
[...]
Now where is the contradiction, you address-munging, namespace-spoiling,
top-posting fool?
PointedEars
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@we b.de> wrote in
news:13******** ********@Pointe dEars.de: Patient Guy wrote:
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@we b.de> wrote [...]: VK wrote:
Also let do not mix the terms "harmful" and "not necessary".
<!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft and
till now and for forever.
Nonsense! `<!' introduces an SGML declaration, `--' starts and ends
a comment within an SGML declaration, and `>' ends the declaration.
It is basically `<!>' to an SGML parser, an empty declaration.
Everything else is tag soup behavior that cannot be assumed. Which
is why Mozilla/5.0 will not consider <!------> a closed comment in
Strict Mode and does not render the adjacent markup.
What a load of unadulterated bandwidth waste yet again from you!!!
[...]
[from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/intro/sgmltut.html]
| 3.2 SGML constructs used in HTML
|
| The following sections introduce SGML constructs that are used in
| HTML. [...]
3.2.4 Comments
HTML comments have the following syntax:
<!-- this is a comment -->
<!-- and so is this one,
which occupies more than one line -->
White space is not permitted between the markup declaration open
delimiter("<!") and the comment open delimiter ("--"), but is
permitted between the comment close delimiter ("--") and the
markup declaration close delimiter (">"). A common error is to
include a string of hyphens ("---") within a comment. Authors
should avoid putting two or more adjacent hyphens inside comments.
[...]
Now where is the contradiction
Poster VK: <!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft
and till now and for forever.
You: Nonsense! `<!' introduces an SGML declaration, `--' starts
and ends a comment within an SGML declaration, and `>' ends
the declaration.
W3 document: HTML comments have the following syntax:
<!-- this is a comment -->
Now what was hard about following that?
, you address-munging,
the address I gave was an obvious attempt at humor....
namespace-spoiling,
Okay...I give up...what are you trying to say here?
top-posting
It would be true had I really in truth top-posted. But all my responses,
interspersed or otherwise, were placed BELOW the text they were responding
to.
But then you already knew that....
fool?
Well, I have to admit that even I can occasionally be wrong and humbled.
Even by the likes of you.
The question before us is whether you have ever admitted to being wrong
and/or humbled, irrespective of the fact that you have been wrong and
humbled at times.
PointedEars
Patient Guy wrote: Poster VK: <!-- --> tag is valid HTML comment tag since the first draft
and till now and for forever.
You: Nonsense! `<!' introduces an SGML declaration, `--' starts
and ends a comment within an SGML declaration, and `>' ends
the declaration.
W3 document: HTML comments have the following syntax:
<!-- this is a comment -->
Now what was hard about following that?
You missed another bit of the HTML standard:
W3 document: HTML 4 is an SGML application conforming to International
Standard ISO 8879 -- Standard Generalized Markup Language SGML (defined in
[ISO8879]).
and SGML defines a comment declaration differently than HTML.
So the question is which definition of a comment do you believe? The one
you quoted is a 'discussion' and therefore it is reasonable to assume it is
not normative. If taken literally it implies that HTML comments must
contain the text 'this is a comment', or 'and so is this one, which
occupies more than one line' so it is obvious that the statement 'HTML
comments have the following syntax' is wrong: they are giving some
examples, not specifying syntax. For the actual comment syntax you have to
fall back on the SGML standard.
Duncan Booth wrote: You missed another bit of the HTML standard:
W3 document: HTML 4 is an SGML application conforming to International
Standard ISO 8879 -- Standard Generalized Markup Language SGML (defined in
[ISO8879]).
and SGML defines a comment declaration differently than HTML.
So the question is which definition of a comment do you believe? The one
you quoted is a 'discussion' and therefore it is reasonable to assume it is
not normative. If taken literally it implies that HTML comments must
contain the text 'this is a comment', or 'and so is this one, which
occupies more than one line' so it is obvious that the statement 'HTML
comments have the following syntax' is wrong: they are giving some
examples, not specifying syntax. For the actual comment syntax you have to
fall back on the SGML standard.
You guys are something else...
You serve a page with MIME type "text/html"
You even link DTD document in the header in case if "some browser"
doesn't know how to tread <table> or <body> or comment tags.
But you are still all in worry that something can go wrong and browser
may read the source as pure SGML. The only solution you see by not
using anything of SGML, or better do not use any tags at all....
Sorry for you but please keep beginners out of discovers like "HTML
comments are harmful" or "textarea doesn't have and never had WRAP
property" etc. (WRAP property indeed doesn't exists by W3C).
Stop reading W3C obscure crap, get some fresh air and make a couple of
real world web-projects (best of all - for money). You'll come back as
all new better people, trust me.
:-)
P.S.
<quote>
<http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/html-spec/html-spec_3.html#SEC 3.2.5>
To include comments in an HTML document, use a comment declaration.
A comment declaration consists of `<!' followed by zero or more
comments followed by `>'.
Each comment starts with `--' and includes all text up to and including
the next occurrence of `--'.
In a comment declaration, white space is allowed after each comment,
but not before the first comment.
The entire comment declaration is ignored.
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