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Wednus Project: wants advice


Hi all,

I am developing an open source DHTML project named Wednus Window.
http://wednus.com

Wednus Window is a DHTML Web-Application Windowing System. It shell
websites/web-applications with fully customizable DHTML window objects
and users also can change its skin, so it can goes well with an
website layouts.

I have just released v0.3.5 beta1 and working on beta2 now, and hope t
get your sugestions or any ideas on improving it.

Thanks.

Sundew Shin
Wednus Project
Manager/Developer
http://wednus.co

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Jul 23 '05 #1
24 1903
sundew wrote:
Hi all,

I am developing an open source DHTML project named Wednus Window.
http://wednus.com

Wednus Window is a DHTML Web-Application Windowing System. It shells
websites/web-applications with fully customizable DHTML window objects,
and users also can change its skin, so it can goes well with any
website layouts.

I have just released v0.3.5 beta1 and working on beta2 now, and hope to
get your sugestions or any ideas on improving it.

Thanks.

Sundew Shin
Wednus Project
Manager/Developer
http://wednus.com
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View this thread: http://www.highdots.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330649

The functionality is impressive. Good work.

As far as advice, I caught three bugs:
I noticed that when you double-click to bring it back from
'windowshade' into normal size, it seems to have a problem displaying
the content of the window. In one attempt, it appeared blank. In
another, it appeared filled with red.

When dragging the 'window' by the top bar (on the demo page), if you
move the mouse too quickly the 'window' may stop following.

Also, on the main page of the site, when dragging the 'window' it
highlighted text on the page.

Pretty cool stuff overall.

Now you get to document it. :)

Jul 23 '05 #2

Thanks for your time and advice, Random

I noticed that when you double-click to bring it back from
'windowshade' into normal size, it seems to have a problem displaying
the content of the window. In one attempt, it appeared blank. In
another, it appeared filled with red.
can you tell me the webbrowser you were using and demo page you've go
this result?
if the demo was http://wednus.com/wednus0.3.5b1/samples/wom.htm ,
then the 'filled with red'-part might have happened after clickin
'[put outside object into core]' link. if it was the case, it worke
as it supposed to be.

When dragging the 'window' by the top bar (on the demo page), if you
move the mouse too quickly the 'window' may stop following.
Typically, a WW is composed by 10 to 30 DIV htmlelements and thei
backgroud images. I guess, the fancier the skin(often with bigge
image size in total) become, the slower the WW(Wednus Window) objec
respond. It was funny because I gave exactly same feedback to othe
DHTML window author who asked me some help. :o Thanks a lot.
realized I need to improve this part more.
Pretty cool stuff overall.
Now you get to document it. :)

I became realized that documentation is more(or equivalently, at least
important than the actual project is, but it is still hard to me
probably harder than programming..

anyway, thank you again

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Jul 23 '05 #3
sundew wrote:
Thanks for your time and advice, Random
No problem at all, man.
I noticed that when you double-click to bring it back from
'windowshade' into normal size, it seems to have a problem displaying
the content of the window. In one attempt, it appeared blank. In
another, it appeared filled with red.

can you tell me the webbrowser you were using and demo page you've got
this result?


IE6/Win2k
http://wednus.com/wednus0.3.5b1/samples/wom.htm
if the demo was http://wednus.com/wednus0.3.5b1/samples/wom.htm ,
then the 'filled with red'-part might have happened after clicking
'[put outside object into core]' link. if it was the case, it worked
as it supposed to be.
That explains the field of red, yes. You're absolutely right.
Not sure why it would have shown up blank prior to that, though.

When dragging the 'window' by the top bar (on the demo page), if you
move the mouse too quickly the 'window' may stop following.

Typically, a WW is composed by 10 to 30 DIV htmlelements and their
backgroud images. I guess, the fancier the skin(often with bigger
image size in total) become, the slower the WW(Wednus Window) object
respond.

....

You're probably right that it's due to the complexity. I'm not sure
that you'll be able to solve it, but you can probably work around it by
registering onMouseUp events for the document as a whole to better
identify if the user is still dragging.
Pretty cool stuff overall.
Now you get to document it. :)

I became realized that documentation is more(or equivalently, at least)
important than the actual project is, but it is still hard to me.
probably harder than programming..


In my opinion, documentation is the hardest (and least rewarding) part
of development. I wish you luck where that's concerned.

Jul 23 '05 #4

Not sure why it would have shown up blank prior to that, though.
I finally have confirmed this bug myself and have fixed it. It was a
issue only on IE browsers.
I have implemented the 'rolling' feature by backing up the middle par
of a WW in an invisible temp node when user dblclick the titlebar. an
when user dblclick again, it retrieves the 'middle part' and relink th
node to the original node, and the problem was right there.
For some unknown reason, when an object moves around in nodes b
'appendChild' method, IE looses the object's style.visibilit y property
so it needs some refreshment of this prop. so what I've done was
change the prop. to 'hidden' first and change it back to 'visible'.
Thank you so much! It could be one of most difficult bugs to fin
because it doesn't bring up any script errors.

About the issue on loosing control while dragging or resizing, I hav
been considering this issue from the beginning, and suggested severa
workarounds myself, and here are the results revealed as two plugins.
http://tinyurl.com/8efd6
http://tinyurl.com/bw5ua

actually, with its own event/exception handler, debugger and run-tim
profiler, WW is mainly designed for openning safer channel fo
workaround-efforts on challenging cross-browser tasks. so, it wasn'
difficult to make such things, but workarounds are just going aroun
and not going through anyway.
you can probably work around it by registering onMouseUp events for th
document as a whole to better identify if the user is still dragging.

but this one was different. what an amazing suggestion! you just hi
the nail on the head.
I can see that you really have great understanding on how all object
and events are working in the browser area. :cool:
I'll remodel the dragger. BTW, one thing is, the most common case i
looses its dragging control is when a WW has an IFRAME as its core.
And when dragging happen to loose its control on the IFRAME, since tha
onmouseup event will be fired *in* the core(IFRAME) area, the host(W
holding) page loose the onmouseup event.. hmm

anyhow, I owe you whole lot already. thank you so much, Random.
hope I also have something to help you back. =

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Jul 23 '05 #5

Not sure why it would have shown up blank prior to that, though.
I finally have confirmed this bug myself and have fixed it. It was a
issue only on IE browsers.
I have implemented the 'rolling' feature by backing up the middle par
of a WW in an invisible temp node when user dblclick the titlebar. an
when user dblclick again, it retrieves the 'middle part' and relink th
node to the original node, and the problem was right there.
For some unknown reason, when an object moves around in nodes b
'appendChild' method, IE looses the object's style.visibilit y property
so it needs some refreshment of this prop. so what I've done was
change the prop. to 'hidden' first and change it back to 'visible'.
Thank you so much! It could be one of most difficult bugs to fin
because it doesn't bring up any script errors.

About the issue on loosing control while dragging or resizing, I hav
been considering this issue from the beginning, and suggested severa
workarounds myself, and here are the results revealed as two plugins.
http://tinyurl.com/8efd6
http://tinyurl.com/bw5ua

actually, with its own event/exception handler, debugger and run-tim
profiler, WW is mainly designed for openning safer channel fo
workaround-efforts on challenging cross-browser tasks. so, it wasn'
difficult to make such things, but workarounds are just going aroun
and not going through anyway.
you can probably work around it by registering onMouseUp events for th
document as a whole to better identify if the user is still dragging.

but this one was different. what an amazing suggestion! you just hi
the nail on the head.
I can see that you really have great understanding on how all object
and events are working in the browser area. :cool:
I'll remodel the dragger. BTW, one thing is, the most common case i
looses its dragging control is when a WW has an IFRAME as its core.
And when dragging happen to loose its control on the IFRAME, since tha
onmouseup event will be fired *in* the core(IFRAME) area, the host(W
holding) page loose the onmouseup event.. hmm

anyhow, I owe you whole lot already. thank you so much, Random.
hope I also have something to help you back. =

--
sunde
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
sundew's Profile: http://www.highdots.com/forums/member.php?userid=8
View this thread: http://www.highdots.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133064

Jul 23 '05 #6
sundew wrote:
I am developing an open source DHTML project named
Wednus Window.
http://wednus.com

Wednus Window is a DHTML Web-Application Windowing
System. It shells websites/web-applications with fully
customizable DHTML window objects, and users also can
change its skin, so it can goes well with any website
layouts.

I have just released v0.3.5 beta1 and working on beta2
now, and hope to get your sugestions or any ideas on
improving it.


My first impression is of code that is massively more complex and
convoluted than it needs to be. That alone will place a significant
barrier in the way of the code being used in web applications as any
experienced web application developer would take one look at the source
and see a development/maintenance nightmare. Good documentation might
elevate that concern, if it revealed the system as having a small and
simple public interface, but my impression is that that isn't true so
complete documentation would not give such an impression.

In browser window systems are a problem crying out for an OO solution,
and a design separating responsibilitie s into easily identified units.
For example, a window manager object and a window instance object,
responsible for behaviour related to the state of the individual
windows, while the manager co-ordinates the windows, handling things
like z-index stacking. While that sort of concept may be buried
somewhere in the code it is a long way from being apparent.

A second impression is of code authored by individuals who don't
understand why they are doing what they are doing. An example might be
the line:-

| WS.load = function(cat,na me){document.wr ite('<scr'+
| 'ipt type="text/javascript" src="'+
| WS.path.root+ca t+'/'+name+
| '/'+name+'.js"><\/scr'+'ipt>');};

- form webnus.js, where the voodoo of splitting up and then
concatenating the script elements is combined with the escaping of the
slash in the closing '</' sequence, but both in a file that was designed
to be imported, and so not subject to that related issue at all.

Similar examples include code that branches to accommodate Natescape 4's
object model features, while other code assumes dynamic support for -
document.create Element -.

That impression of unskilled implementation is re-enforced by the
occurrence of both of the "dismiss this code out of hand" criteria for
javascript; browser detection by UA string, and using eval to resolve
property accessors. From dom.js:-

| WS.func.thisDiv OnTop = function(id){
| var t = 0;
| var z = (document.layer s) ? ".zIndex" : ".style.zIndex" ;
| var fun = (document.getEl ementById) ? "document.getEl ementById":
| "MM_findObj ";
| var arr = (document.layer s) ? document.layers : (document.all) ?
| document.all.ta gs("DIV") :
| document.getEle mentsByTagName( "DIV");
| for(var i = 0; i < arr.length; i++){
| var oz = eval("arr["+ i +"]" + z);
| if(oz > t){
| t = oz;
| }
| }
| var obj = eval(fun + "(id)");
| if(obj) eval(fun +"('"+ id +"')"+ z +" = parseInt("+ t +")+ 1");
| };
|
|
| //Detect the browser vendor and version number
| WS.cvar.agt = navigator.userA gent.toLowerCas e();
| WS.cvar.is_nav = ((WS.cvar.agt.i ndexOf('mozilla ')!=-1) &&
| (WS.cvar.agt.in dexOf('spoofer' )==-1) &&
| (WS.cvar.agt.in dexOf('compatib le') == -1) &&
| (WS.cvar.agt.in dexOf('opera')= =-1) &&
| (WS.cvar.agt.in dexOf('webtv')= =-1) &&
| (WS.cvar.agt.in dexOf('hotjava' )==-1));
| WS.cvar.is_geck o = (WS.cvar.agt.in dexOf('gecko') != -1);
| WS.cvar.is_ie = ((WS.cvar.agt.i ndexOf("msie") != -1) &&
| (WS.cvar.agt.in dexOf("opera") == -1));
| WS.cvar.is_oper a = (WS.cvar.agt.in dexOf("opera") != -1);

The examples all use invalid HTML, and there are examples of the use of
deprecated mark-up within the script. This deficiency on the part of the
author appears to have resulted in the impression that modern browsers
only operate in quirks mode. In the event that the script be exposed to
formally valid HTML it will significantly malfunction. In code written
for a specific context that might be acceptable but code aimed at
general use in a web application should really be written so that
aspects of browser behaviour that are influenced by factors external to
the script are taken into account and coped with.

The system as a whole does not have any facility to negate the IE
browser SELECT element burn-through problem. It is difficult to imagine
a web application that does not feature at least one SELECT element.

Being able to drag a window out of the top of the page in the browser
window is not a good idea as it risks rendering the title bar and button
of that window inaccessible (making continued use of that window
problematic).

Clicking the minimise buttons on the window appears to result in them
disappearing forever.

A web application using an in-browser window system will likely want to
react to the user's interactions with those windows. That would probably
be best facilitated by allowing external code to attach event handlers
to aspects of the window objects. That is, conceptually at the window
object level, not reaching into the HTML DOM for the window and
attaching browser event handlers to the contained elements. Being able
to attach arbitrary code to be executed when the window loads its
contents, is re-sized, scrolled and closed, would probably be the
minimum an in-browser widow system should facilitate.

Richard.
Jul 23 '05 #7
My first impression is of code that is massively more complex and
convoluted than it needs to be.I admit it. In browser window systems are a problem crying out for an OO solution,
and a design separating responsibilitie s into easily identified units.hmm.. I might need to study other real OSs and see how those units wer actually implemented.
A web application using an in-browser window system will likely want t
react to the user's interactions with those windows. That woul
probably be best facilitated by allowing external code to attach even
handlers to aspects of the window objects. That is, conceptually at th
window object level, not reaching into the HTML DOM for the window an
attaching browser event handlers to the contained elements. Being abl
to attach arbitrary code to be executed when the window loads it
contents, is re-sized, scrolled and closed, would probably be th
minimum an in-browser widow system should facilitate.I know what you're talking about, and you just draw me a clea inspiration on improving current object model of WW. thanks.
A second impression is of code authored by individuals who don'
understand why they are doing what they are doing. An example might b
the line:-
...Similar examples include code that branches to accommodate Natescap
4's
object model features, while other code assumes dynamic support for -
document.create Element -.Whole code was written all by myself, so, yes, on many parts, I didn' know what I was doing, and sometimes I mimicked others code even thoug
I wasn't fully convinced. The #1 goal of this project always b
supporting most browsers including all IE/Mozilla/KHTML/Opera relate
browsers. On the way I was trying to make WW more 'generic', I becam
numb at adopting crazy-unintuitive-nasty-but-working code of others.
appreciate your advice.
The examples all use invalid HTML, and there are examples of the use of
deprecated mark-up within the script. This deficiency on the part o
the
author appears to have resulted in the impression that modern browsers
only operate in quirks mode. In the event that the script be expose
to
formally valid HTML it will significantly malfunction. I can't agree more. It will be the first target at revising the code. In code written for a specific context that might be acceptable but cod
aimed at
general use in a web application should really be written so tha
aspects of browser behaviour that are influenced by factors external t
the script are taken into account and coped with.I think do literally understood this part but got a feeling that maybe won't never understand what it deeply implies. can you explain i
little more please?
The system as a whole does not have any facility to negate the IE
browser SELECT element burn-through problem. It is difficult t
imagine
a web application that does not feature at least one SELECT element.just amazed.. did you open up whole modules? how did you know? I know a mothod using an IFRAME to cover them up if necessary from:
http://www.codetoad.com/forum/20_22736.asp
, but if you know any better methods or workarounds, please let m
know.
Clicking the minimise buttons on the window appears to result in the
disappearing forever.maybe there was an error on the demo you tested. minimizing a WW wil be resulted as an icon showing on the position predefined. which dem
did you try?
Being able to drag a window out of the top of the page in the browser
window is not a good idea as it risks rendering the title bar an
button
of that window inaccessible (making continued use of that windo
problematic).th is one, I noticed it could be an issue as you just pointed out. so

prepared a plugin for preventing such event. I didn't implement it a
a default because I wanted to give more freedom to users.
http://tinyurl.com/d4gl2

what can I say?
thanks a lot, Richard

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Jul 23 '05 #8
sundew wrote:
My first impression is of code that is massively more complex and
convoluted than it needs to be.

I admit it.
In browser window systems are a problem crying out for an OO solution,
and a design separating responsibilitie s into easily identified units.

hmm.. I might need to study other real OSs and see how those units were
actually implemented.


This is something to take very seriously. I didn't look at your code
because I assumed it would be a few hours' browsing (which is why I
only remarked on the functionality), but it is very important to keep
everything properly encapsulated in appropriate objects, such as Rob's
WednusWindowMan ager and WednusWindow suggestions.

It's equally important that, regardless of the complexity or neatness
of the underlying code, you provide a clear, easy-to-use, intuitive
interface for developers implementing your project. Ideally, we would
never have to look at the underlying code and be able to take advantage
of a simple, well-documented API.

I don't want to have to know how it works-- I don't have time for that.
I need to be able to make it work with as little effort as possible. It
has to be magic.
....
A second impression is of code authored by individuals who don't
understand why they are doing what they are doing. An example might be
the line:-
...Similar examples include code that branches to accommodate Natescape
4's
object model features, while other code assumes dynamic support for -
document.create Element -.

Whole code was written all by myself, so, yes, on many parts, I didn't
know what I was doing, and sometimes I mimicked others code even though
I wasn't fully convinced. The #1 goal of this project always be
supporting most browsers including all IE/Mozilla/KHTML/Opera related
browsers. On the way I was trying to make WW more 'generic', I became
numb at adopting crazy-unintuitive-nasty-but-working code of others. I
appreciate your advice.

Keep the voodoo for masking <script></script> tags if you're going to
be writing <script> tags. Someone out there is going to try to
copy/paste the code into the document itself, and this should not break
your code.
....
In code written for a specific context that might be acceptable but code
aimed at
general use in a web application should really be written so that
aspects of browser behaviour that are influenced by factors external to
the script are taken into account and coped with.

I think do literally understood this part but got a feeling that maybe I
won't never understand what it deeply implies. can you explain it
little more please?


In the environments in which your project will be implemented, there
are ten thousand and more factors that you cannot possibly control.
Your job is to take them all into account and make sure your script
keeps working (or at least doesn't break anything else).

....
Clicking the minimise buttons on the window appears to result in them
disappearing forever.maybe there was an error on the demo you tested. minimizing a WW will

be resulted as an icon showing on the position predefined.


You also gave the icon a default position, I assume.

Being able to drag a window out of the top of the page in the browser
window is not a good idea as it risks rendering the title bar and
button
of that window inaccessible (making continued use of that window
problematic).th is one, I noticed it could be an issue as you just pointed out. so I

prepared a plugin for preventing such event. I didn't implement it as
a default because I wanted to give more freedom to users.
http://tinyurl.com/d4gl2


I didn't have a problem with this because the left border of the frame
allowed me to move the WW around as well. Of course if you somehow
manage to drag it off the left and above the top, you're still screwed.

Jul 23 '05 #9
sundew wrote:
Not sure why it would have shown up blank prior to that, though.
I finally have confirmed this bug myself and have fixed it. It was an
issue only on IE browsers.
I have implemented the 'rolling' feature by backing up the middle part
of a WW in an invisible temp node when user dblclick the titlebar. and
when user dblclick again, it retrieves the 'middle part' and relink the
node to the original node, and the problem was right there.


Isn't it simpler to just set its CSS display property to 'none' when it
needs to go away, and then back to 'block' when it's restored?
For some unknown reason, when an object moves around in nodes by
'appendChild' method, IE looses the object's style.visibilit y property,
so it needs some refreshment of this prop. so what I've done was,
change the prop. to 'hidden' first and change it back to 'visible'.
Probably has a problem keeping track of it because visibility is
inheritable.

....
you can probably work around it by registering onMouseUp events for the
document as a whole to better identify if the user is still dragging.


Actually I'll have to take that back -- what if someone already has an
onMouseUp handler for their document? Either your script will break
theirs, or theirs will break yours.
.... BTW, one thing is, the most common case it
looses its dragging control is when a WW has an IFRAME as its core.
And when dragging happen to loose its control on the IFRAME, since that
onmouseup event will be fired *in* the core(IFRAME) area, the host(WW
holding) page loose the onmouseup event.. hmm


That being the case, registering an onMouseUp for the parent document
wouldn't fix it anyway, because the mouse won't be over the document
when that event fires -- it'll fire for the document in the iFrame,
which you can't control.

Instead, you might consider covering the iframe with a div or span
(transparent, of course) while it's being dragged. Then get rid of the
div or span when dragging ceases. You can either get rid of it entirely
or just set its CSS display property to 'none'.

Some versions of some browsers aren't too good at placing layer-like
elements over iframes, but it's a start.

Anyway, glad I could be of some help.

Jul 23 '05 #10

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Oralloy
by: Oralloy | last post by:
Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed. This is as boiled down as I can make it. Here is my compilation command: g++-12 -std=c++20 -Wnarrowing bit_field.cpp Here is the code in...
1
8550
by: Hystou | last post by:
Overview: Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows Update option using the Control Panel or Settings app; it automatically checks for updates and installs any it finds, whether you like it or not. For most users, this new feature is actually very convenient. If you want to control the update process,...
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8639
tracyyun
by: tracyyun | last post by:
Dear forum friends, With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
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7385
agi2029
by: agi2029 | last post by:
Let's talk about the concept of autonomous AI software engineers and no-code agents. These AIs are designed to manage the entire lifecycle of a software development project—planning, coding, testing, and deployment—without human intervention. Imagine an AI that can take a project description, break it down, write the code, debug it, and then launch it, all on its own.... Now, this would greatly impact the work of software developers. The idea...
1
6192
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules. He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms. Adolph will...
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5663
by: conductexam | last post by:
I have .net C# application in which I am extracting data from word file and save it in database particularly. To store word all data as it is I am converting the whole word file firstly in HTML and then checking html paragraph one by one. At the time of converting from word file to html my equations which are in the word document file was convert into image. Globals.ThisAddIn.Application.ActiveDocument.Select();...
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2769
by: 6302768590 | last post by:
Hai team i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system

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