input and font size problem in NS7

[Cezar]

Hi!

I have simple css class:

..button1{
margin:0;
border:1px solid;
cursor:pointer;
height:20px;
font:normal normal bold 10px Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
padding:0 6px 0 6px;
color:#5a5a5a;
border-color:#ccc #666 #666 #ccc;
background:#ececec url('../pic/inputbg.gif');
}

and using with <input type="button" class="button1" ...>.
In IE5.x,IE6, Opera 7.23, FF 0.8 font size are the same.
But in NS7 isn't. They are bigger. Why?

Thanks.
Cezar

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Cezar wrote:

font:normal normal bold 10px Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this".

[Cezar]

> > font:normal normal bold 10px Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this".

But how can I attend it? :-)

Cezar

[Cezar]

> > font:normal normal bold 10px Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this".

Is there any solution ?

Cezar

[Stephen Poley]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 13:26:14 +0200, "Cezar" <ce*****@imail.net.pl>
wrote:

> font:normal normal bold 10px Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this".

Is there any solution ?

It's more a question of: is there any problem?

In all graphical browsers (thus excluding the Internet Explorer ersatz)
the reader can override the font settings specified by the author, so
there is absolutely no point, as an author, in worrying about getting
the font size the same in different browsers - the reader can change it
anyway.

For the benefit of benighted IE users it would be better in any case to
specify the font size in % rather than in pixels.

For further reading:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/fontsize.html

And while you're at it:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

[Cezar]

> >Is there any solution ?

It's more a question of: is there any problem?

In all graphical browsers (thus excluding the Internet Explorer ersatz)
the reader can override the font settings specified by the author, so
there is absolutely no point, as an author, in worrying about getting
the font size the same in different browsers - the reader can change it
anyway.
For the benefit of benighted IE users it would be better in any case to
specify the font size in % rather than in pixels.
Yes, it's true, but % cause many problem in my project. That's why
i used px. In the future I will change it.
For further reading:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/fontsize.html

And while you're at it:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html

Good articles. Thank You.
Cezar

[Brian]

Cezar wrote:

font:normal normal bold 10px
Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;

Alan Flavell wrote: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this".

Cezar wrote: Is there any solution ?

Naturally. Stop doing that.

Also: don't remove attribute lines that indicate who said what.

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Rob Collyer]

I would always use percentage fonts for reasons of accessibility!
If you use fixed width fonts now, then changing them over to percentage ones
should be very quick and easy if you are using global stylesheets!
--
Rob Collyer - www.webforumz.com
Web design and development forums for Free help, advice,
tips, and website critique by professional designers and developers.

"Cezar" <ce*****@imail.net.pl> wrote in message
news:cd**********@nemesis.news.tpi.pl...

Is there any solution ?

It's more a question of: is there any problem?

In all graphical browsers (thus excluding the Internet Explorer ersatz)
the reader can override the font settings specified by the author, so
there is absolutely no point, as an author, in worrying about getting
the font size the same in different browsers - the reader can change it
anyway.
For the benefit of benighted IE users it would be better in any case to
specify the font size in % rather than in pixels.

Yes, it's true, but % cause many problem in my project. That's why
i used px. In the future I will change it.

For further reading:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/fontsize.html

And while you're at it:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html

Good articles. Thank You.
Cezar

[Cezar]

> I would always use percentage fonts for reasons of accessibility!

If you use fixed width fonts now, then changing them over to percentage ones should be very quick and easy if you are using global stylesheets!

I'm using global stylesheets. When I changed my font size on %, then
displays text haven't same size. That's why I use px. I think I will change
it,
but I heard that I have to use some tricks. Then most browsers will display
them correct. Right?

Cezar

[Neal]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:44:57 +0200, Cezar <ce*****@imail.net.pl> wrote:

I would always use percentage fonts for reasons of accessibility!
If you use fixed width fonts now, then changing them over to percentage

ones

should be very quick and easy if you are using global stylesheets!

I'm using global stylesheets. When I changed my font size on %, then
displays text haven't same size. That's why I use px. I think I will
change
it,
but I heard that I have to use some tricks. Then most browsers will
display
them correct. Right?

Cezar

Please make up a test case where you have trouble with % font-size and
post a URL. % is certainly the best way to go on font-size, you're
comparing your suggested font-size not to an absolute standard (which
isn't really so absolute) but to the user's preferred size, and gaining
the benefit of easy on-the-fly resizing in one common browser.

[Cezar]

> Please make up a test case where you have trouble with % font-size and

post a URL. % is certainly the best way to go on font-size, you're
comparing your suggested font-size not to an absolute standard (which
isn't really so absolute) but to the user's preferred size, and gaining
the benefit of easy on-the-fly resizing in one common browser.

The case is more complicated than only % fonts size. I'll have to redesign
my web application. Some big text may not contain in some graphics elements.
So, I know that's the best way is to use % fonts size and will be WAI
compatibility. I have to think over this again.

Thanks for any advices.
Cezary.

[Arondelle]

Cezar wrote:

.button1{
margin:0;
border:1px solid;
cursor:pointer;
height:20px;
font:normal normal bold 10px Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
padding:0 6px 0 6px;
color:#5a5a5a;
border-color:#ccc #666 #666 #ccc;
background:#ececec url('../pic/inputbg.gif');
}

and using with <input type="button" class="button1" ...>.
In IE5.x,IE6, Opera 7.23, FF 0.8 font size are the same.
But in NS7 isn't. They are bigger. Why?

Hey! I'm a Noobie, and even I know what your problem is: Verdana.

I learned about how eeeeeeevil Verdana is from the guys at alt.html:
it's bigger than most other fonts.

Simple solution(s): Pick another font. Or, don't select a font at all.

As for NS7, I hate it and don't use it because it displays *all* fonts
as jumbo-sized. :-P

Arondelle
--
================================================== =========
To email me, empty the pond with a net

[Neal]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 16:15:20 GMT, Arondelle <ar*********@verizon.pond>
wrote:

Hey! I'm a Noobie, and even I know what your problem is: Verdana.

I learned about how eeeeeeevil Verdana is from the guys at alt.html:
it's bigger than most other fonts.
Mostly correct. Actually, the height of a capital letter will be the same
- but the x-height, or the height of most lower-case letters, is much
larger than average. So it appears larger, but it really isn't.
Simple solution(s): Pick another font. Or, don't select a font at all.

Wise advice.

[Cezar]

> Hey! I'm a Noobie, and even I know what your problem is: Verdana.

Yes, now I know from Stephen Poley.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html

I learned about how eeeeeeevil Verdana is from the guys at alt.html:
it's bigger than most other fonts.

Simple solution(s): Pick another font. Or, don't select a font at all.
Yes, it's simple :-)
As for NS7, I hate it and don't use it because it displays *all* fonts
as jumbo-sized. :-P

I hate NS7 too, but I want to be more compatible with most known
browsers. That's why I must care about people who view my site.

Cezar.

[Arondelle]

Cezar wrote:

I hate NS7 too, but I want to be more compatible with most known
browsers. That's why I must care about people who view my site.

Then, selecting Verdana as your font is not the way to do it. :o)

Arondelle
--
================================================== =========
To email me, empty the pond with a net

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004, Arondelle wrote:

As for NS7, I hate it and don't use it because it displays *all* fonts
as jumbo-sized. :-P

If you won't set your preferences, how do you expect to get your
preferred font size? Even the Mozilla folks aren't clairvoyant.

[Arondelle]

Alan J. Flavell wrote:

If you won't set your preferences, how do you expect to get your
preferred font size? Even the Mozilla folks aren't clairvoyant.

Not my fault.

I set my preferences: NS7 ignores them. I enabled javascript:
Javascript does't work. Plugins don't work (no movies, no animation, no
music). The popup blocker doesn't work -- which is ok because the whole
program crashes when it perceives an incoming popup. Even when I *want*
something to open in a new window it goes kerfloey.

What kind of crap program is that?:-(

Arondelle
--
================================================== =========
To email me, empty the pond with a net

[Claire Tucker]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:21:03 GMT, Arondelle <ar*********@verizon.pond>
wrote:

Alan J. Flavell wrote:

If you won't set your preferences, how do you expect to get your
preferred font size? Even the Mozilla folks aren't clairvoyant.

Not my fault.

I set my preferences: NS7 ignores them. I enabled javascript:
Javascript does't work. Plugins don't work (no movies, no animation, no
music). The popup blocker doesn't work -- which is ok because the whole
program crashes when it perceives an incoming popup. Even when I *want*
something to open in a new window it goes kerfloey.

This all sounds quite terrible. Not that I dispute that you are having
these problems, but I find it weird that I have not heard such
complaints before.

Still, I suggest you abandon Netscape's weird branded versions of
Mozilla and use the real thing, either in the form of the big
communicator suite (Seamonkey) or the nice, cute little browser
FireFox. (with Thunderbird for your mail and news needs, if you wish).

Firefox certainly hasn't failed to respond to my configuration
choices, although I must admit I don't actually have "plugins" enabled
or even any installed.

Best regards,
-Claire

[Arondelle]

Claire Tucker wrote:

This all sounds quite terrible. Not that I dispute that you are having
these problems, but I find it weird that I have not heard such
complaints before.
It's entirely possible that it's not getting along with Win98 on my
Pentium 2. I haven't had a bit of trouble with the latest version
(6.02.xxxx.....) of Internet Explorer, though. (Did I mention that all
the dialog boxes for NS7 do not resize, and some of the boxes, and
therefor, some of the options, are not visible/useable? What's up with
that?)
Still, I suggest you abandon Netscape's weird branded versions of
Mozilla and use the real thing, either in the form of the big
communicator suite (Seamonkey) or the nice, cute little browser
FireFox. (with Thunderbird for your mail and news needs, if you wish).

I use Netscape for mail and news 'cause Outlook bites. Unlike the NS7
browser, most of the time it's well-behaved. If I want to whip up a web
page in a few minutes, I use NS Composer, although I'll say that the
HTML it generates is really weird. I have to do a *lot* of code-pruning
once I feed my sources to HTML-Kit. As I've been practicing with CSS, I
find I'm depending less and less on wysiwyg.

Arondelle
--
================================================== =========
To email me, empty the pond with a net

[kchayka]

Cezar wrote:

When I changed my font size on %, then
displays text haven't same size. That's why I use px.
You have to stop thinking that it has to look the same in all browsers.
It isn't going to happen, even if you use px, so you should abandon the
idea altogether. If your design is graphics-based and you're trying to
force text to stay within certain graphic boundaries, then you may have
a neat print design, but not something well suited for the web.
I think I will change it,
but I heard that I have to use some tricks. Then most browsers will display
them correct. Right?

"Correct" is in the eye of the beholder. To me, "correct" is text that
is large enough and has sufficient contrast to be easily readable in my
particular browsing environment. I would bet money that what is easily
readable for you is not necessarily readable for me.

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