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HTML form design tip - font size of text input elements - IE7 vsFirefox

Hi All;

I, like others, have been frustrated with designing
forms that look and flow the same in both IE and Firefox.
They simply did not scale the same.

I have discovered, to my chagrin, that IE7 does not seem
to offer any way to control the font size of a text input
element.

Firefox properly inherits the font-size for the text input
from its container. In IE7, there seems to be only one
font-size available, that being 11pt.

The following CSS rule works in FireFox but not in IE7

INPUT[type="text"] { font-size: 10pt }

Plug in any value in the above line. IE7 simply ignores it.

So now my design practice will be to the to set the
text input element font-size to 11pt. At least the input
element sizes will be much more similar in size between the
two browsers.

FWIW, I can't see M$ fixing this 'bug' anytime soon. Their
'zoom' feature of scaling a bitmap image as opposed to the
more elegant solution of incrementing the font-size is,
IMHO, pretty lame and goofy looking.

Here is a web link to a CSS *fluid* form. With the
style rule mentioned above, the form looks and flows
pretty much the same in both browsers. Take that rule
out and compare the difference.

http://68.147.176.113/calgarydj/even...0ee29ce4f5ace9

Here is some of the HTML source from the same form to let
you cut, paste, and fool around.

=============== =============== =============== =============== =======

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

<html>
<head>
<title>Fluid form example</title>
<meta name="author" content="Jim Sontag" />
<meta name="descripti on" content="sample fluid form using
CSS" />
<style type="text/css">
<!--
BODY { font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 10pt }
FIELDSET { padding: 4px; margin: 8px; }
LABEL { float: left; clear: none; margin-right: 8px; }
LABEL { font-size: 80%; font-style: italic; }
LEGEND { font-weight: 700; font-style: italic }

INPUT[type="text"] { font-size: 11pt }

..lside { float: left; clear: left; width: 50%; }
..rside { float: left; clear: right; width: 50%; }

..title1 { font-size:150%; font-style:italic; padding-right:8px }
..title2 { font-size:110%; font-style:italic; padding-right:8px }
..tstmp { font-style: italic; line-height: 1.5em;
padding-right:8px }

..glabel { margin-left: 3ex }
..glabel LABEL { font-size: 90%; font-style: italic;
text-indent: -3ex; }
..glabel { white-space: normal }

/* stupid microsoft fixes */
* html .glabel { margin-left: 0 }
* html .glabel LABEL { text-indent: 0 }

#dbtn { display: none }
..sbtn { float: right }

#ctrl { display: none }
#newPrice { clear: both; padding-top: 1ex; }
-->
</style>
</head>
<body>

<form class="dj" id="booking" action="event.p hp"
method="post" onsubmit="retur n validate()">
<fieldset><lege nd>Event Information</legend>

<div <!-- needed for IE -->
<div class="lside">
<span class="title1"> Dave Black</span><br / <span
class="title2"> Tuesday, December 19, 2006 <br />8:00pm to
1:00am (5:00 hours)</span><br />
</div<!-- end of lside div -->
<div class="rside" style="text-align:right">
<span class="title1"> Our price : $700<br /></span>
<span class="tstmp">L ast updated: Sat, Feb 24 -
3:13pm</span><br />

<a
href="/calgarydj/event.php?page= 0d94c81bc43bb77 7200ee29ce4f5ac e9">Refresh</a>
</div<!-- end of rside div -->
<div id="newPrice"> </div><br />
</div>
<fieldset id="ctrl" style="float:le ft;clear:left">
<legend>Control </legend>
<label>
type<br />
<input readonly type="hidden" name="type" size="6"
value="booking" />
</label>

<label>
idx<br />
<input readonly type="hidden" name="idx" size="1"
maxlength="4" value="-1" />
</label>

<label>
pkey<br />
<input readonly type="hidden" name="pkey" size="2"
maxlength="4" value="1" />
</label></fieldset>

<div id="jim">
<div class="lside" style="clear:bo th">
<fieldset><lege nd>Contact information</legend>

<div style="float:le ft;clear:none">
<label>Name<b r />
<input type="text" name="name" size="32" maxlength="32"
value="Dave Black" />

</label>

<label style="clear:le ft">e-mail<br />
<input type="text" name="email" size="32" maxlength="40"
value="da****** ***********@www .calgarydj.ca" />
</label>
</div>

<div style="float:le ft;clear:none">
<label>Phone (primary)<br />

<input type="text" name="phone1" size="13" maxlength="13"
value="403 123-4567" />
</label>

<label style="clear:le ft">Phone&nbsp; (alternate)<br />
<input type="text" name="phone2" size="13" maxlength="13"
value="403 765-4321" />
</label>
</div>

<label>
Address<br />

<input type="text" name="addr1" size="32"
maxlength="32" value="123 Mockingbird Lane NW" /><br />
<input type="text" name="addr2" size="32"
maxlength="32" value="" />
</label>

<div style="float:no ne;clear:both">
<label style="clear:bo th">
City<br />
<input type="text" name="city" size="15" maxlength="20"
value="Calgary" />
</label>
<label>
Prov<br />
<input type="text" name="prov" size="4" maxlength="20"
value="AB" />
</label>

<label>
Postal Code<br />
<input type="text" name="postalCod e" size="9"
maxlength="9" value="T2M 0X5" />
</label>&nbsp;

</div>
</fieldset>

<fieldset>
<legend>Time &amp; Place</legend>
<label>Venue name<br />
<input type="text" name="venue" size="30" maxlength="32"
value="" />
</label>

<label>
starting<br />
<select name="stime" onchange="pcalc ()" <option
value="12:30">1 2:30</option>
<option value="13:00">1 :00</option>
<option value="13:30">1 :30</option>
<option value="14:00">2 :00</option>

<option value="14:30">2 :30</option>
<option value="15:00">3 :00</option>
<option value="15:30">3 :30</option>
<option value="16:00">4 :00</option>
<option value="16:30">4 :30</option>
<option value="17:00">5 :00</option>

<option value="17:30">5 :30</option>
<option value="18:00">6 :00</option>
<option value="18:30">6 :30</option>
<option value="19:00">7 :00</option>
<option value="19:30">7 :30</option>
<option selected value="20:00">8 :00</option>

<option value="20:30">8 :30</option>
<option value="21:00">9 :00</option>
<option value="21:30">9 :30</option>
<option value="22:00">1 0:00</option>
<option value="22:30">1 0:30</option>
<option value="23:00">1 1:00</option>

<option value="23:30">1 1:30</option>
<option value="00:00">1 2:00am</option>
<option value="00:30">1 2:30am</option>
<option value="01:00">1 :00am</option>
<option value="01:30">1 :30am</option>
<option value="02:00">2 :00am</option>

</select>
<!-- <input type="text" name="stime" size="6"
value="20:00"/-->

</label>

<label>
ending<br />
<select name="etime" onchange="pcalc ()" <option
value="12:30">1 2:30</option>
<option value="13:00">1 :00</option>

<option value="13:30">1 :30</option>
<option value="14:00">2 :00</option>
<option value="14:30">2 :30</option>
<option value="15:00">3 :00</option>
<option value="15:30">3 :30</option>
<option value="16:00">4 :00</option>

<option value="16:30">4 :30</option>
<option value="17:00">5 :00</option>
<option value="17:30">5 :30</option>
<option value="18:00">6 :00</option>
<option value="18:30">6 :30</option>
<option value="19:00">7 :00</option>

<option value="19:30">7 :30</option>
<option value="20:00">8 :00</option>
<option value="20:30">8 :30</option>
<option value="21:00">9 :00</option>
<option value="21:30">9 :30</option>
<option value="22:00">1 0:00</option>

<option value="22:30">1 0:30</option>
<option value="23:00">1 1:00</option>
<option value="23:30">1 1:30</option>
<option value="00:00">1 2:00am</option>
<option value="00:30">1 2:30am</option>
<option selected value="01:00">1 :00am</option>

<option value="01:30">1 :30am</option>
<option value="02:00">2 :00am</option>
</select>
<!-- <input type="text" name="etime" size="6"
value="01:00"/-->
</label>

<label>Address< br />
<input type="text" name="street" size="30" maxlength="32"
value="123 mockingbird lane" />
</label>
<div class="glabel" style="clear:le ft">
<label style="margin-top:1ex">
<input type="checkbox" name="inTown" value="true"
onclick="pcalc( )" />
Check here if the venue is outside of the city.
</label>

<label style="margin-top:6px;float:r ight">
If yes, distance from city limits?
<select name="travel" onchange="pcalc ()">
<option value="20">0-20 km</option>

<option value="40">20-40km</option>
<option value="60">40-60km</option>
<option value="80">60-80km</option>
<option value="100">80-100km</option>
<option selected value="200">Ove r 100km</option>
</select>

</label>

<div style="clear:bo th;padding-top:6px">
<label>
<input type="checkbox" name="earlySetu p"
value="true" onclick="pcalc( )" />
Do you need us to set up earlier in the day?
(setup normally happens 1 hour before your requested
start time)
</label>

<label style="float:ri ght">
If yes, early setup time
<select name="earlySetu pTime" onchange="pcalc ()">
<!-- <input name="earlySetu pTime" type="text"
value="20:00" size="6" maxlength="6" /-- <option
value="12:30">1 2:30</option>

<option value="13:00">1 :00</option>
<option value="13:30">1 :30</option>
<option value="14:00">2 :00</option>
<option value="14:30">2 :30</option>
<option value="15:00">3 :00</option>
<option value="15:30">3 :30</option>

<option value="16:00">4 :00</option>
<option value="16:30">4 :30</option>
<option value="17:00">5 :00</option>
<option value="17:30">5 :30</option>
<option value="18:00">6 :00</option>
<option value="18:30">6 :30</option>

<option value="19:00">7 :00</option>
<option value="19:30">7 :30</option>
<option selected value="20:00">8 :00</option>
<option value="20:30">8 :30</option>
<option value="21:00">9 :00</option>
<option value="21:30">9 :30</option>

<option value="22:00">1 0:00</option>
<option value="22:30">1 0:30</option>
<option value="23:00">1 1:00</option>
<option value="23:30">1 1:30</option>
<option value="00:00">1 2:00am</option>
<option value="00:30">1 2:30am</option>

<option value="01:00">1 :00am</option>
<option value="01:30">1 :30am</option>
<option value="02:00">2 :00am</option>
</select>

</label&nbsp;
</div>

</div>
</fieldset>

</div<!-- end of lside div -->

<div class="rside">
<fieldset>
<legend>Dinne r Music</legend>
<div class="glabel">
<label>
<input type="radio" name="dinnerMus ic" value="recorded "
onclick="pcalc( )" />Recorded music ($50/hr)
</label>

<br style="clear:bo th" />

<label>
<input checked type="radio" name="dinnerMus ic"
value="guitar" onclick="pcalc( )" />Live classical guitar
($150/hr)
</label>
<br style="clear:bo th" />

<label>
<input type="radio" name="dinnerMus ic" value="piano"
onclick="pcalc( )" />Live classical piano ($150/hr)
</label>
<br style="clear:bo th" />

<label>

<input type="radio" name="dinnerMus ic" value="none"
onclick="pcalc( )" />No dinner music
</label>
</div>
</fieldset>

<fieldset>
<legend>Sound Enhancement </legend>
Please select any of the following extras you are interested in
<div class="glabel">
<label>
<input checked type="checkbox" name="wireless"
value="true" onclick="pcalc( )" />Wireless microphone ($50)
</label>

<br style="clear:bo th" />

<label>
<input checked type="checkbox" name="lights"
value="true" onclick="pcalc( )" />Upgraded lighting system ($100)
</label>
<br style="clear:bo th" />

<label>
<input type="checkbox" name="bigSound" value="true"
onclick="pcalc( )" />Upgraded sound system
-recommended for groups of <b>200&nbsp;+ </b($100)
</label>

<br style="clear:bo th" />

<label>
<input type="checkbox" name="senior" value="true"
onclick="pcalc( )" />
Premium DJ -our most expereinced DJs ($50)
</label>
</div>
</fieldset>

<fieldset>
<legend>Notepad </legend>

<textarea rows="4" cols="28" name="notepad"> hey
nee ner
nee ner ner
</textarea>
</fieldset>

</div <!-- end of rside div -->
</div>
<br style="clear:bo th" />
<input type="submit" id="dbtn" />
</fieldset>
</form>
</body>
</html>
Feb 25 '07 #1
18 24985
Diogenes <no****@nospam. netwrote:
>The following CSS rule works in FireFox but not in IE7

INPUT[type="text"] { font-size: 10pt }

Plug in any value in the above line. IE7 simply ignores it.
Works for me.

Interesting, it only works if I trigger standards mode. You must be
including a doctype that triggers quirks mode.

OTOH, attribute selectors won't work at all in IE6, so don't use them
for anything too important.
>FWIW, I can't see M$ fixing this 'bug' anytime soon. Their
'zoom' feature of scaling a bitmap image as opposed to the
more elegant solution of incrementing the font-size is,
IMHO, pretty lame and goofy looking.
IE7 offers both page zoom and text zoom. The problem is that by
setting font sizes in px or pt authors disable text zoom. So don't use
those units for font size - use % or em instead.
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
Triggers quirks mode, so you're making IE6 and IE7 emulate the bugs of
IE5.

Steve
--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.n et <http://steve.pugh.net/>
Feb 25 '07 #2
Steve Pugh wrote:
Diogenes <no****@nospam. netwrote:
>>The following CSS rule works in FireFox but not in IE7

INPUT[type="text"] { font-size: 10pt }

Plug in any value in the above line. IE7 simply ignores it.

Works for me.

Interesting, it only works if I trigger standards mode. You must be
including a doctype that triggers quirks mode.
Hey, brilliant Steve! I swapped the DOCTYPE for the
following in the same document ...

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

and it works great! I've never dealt with quirks and
standards mode. Do you have a favorite bookmark
that discusses this?
OTOH, attribute selectors won't work at all in IE6, so don't use them
for anything too important.
It has been my impression that IE7 has replaced IE6 on
almost every machine by now. Any idea of what % still run
IE6? I only have one system - IE6 and IE7 seem to be
mutually exclusive on a single system.
>
>>FWIW, I can't see M$ fixing this 'bug' anytime soon. Their
'zoom' feature of scaling a bitmap image as opposed to the
more elegant solution of incrementing the font-size is,
IMHO, pretty lame and goofy looking.


IE7 offers both page zoom and text zoom. The problem is that by
setting font sizes in px or pt authors disable text zoom. So don't use
those units for font size - use % or em instead.

>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">


Triggers quirks mode, so you're making IE6 and IE7 emulate the bugs of
IE5.

Steve
Thanks again,
Jim
Feb 25 '07 #3
Scripsit Diogenes:
and it works great!
Using input { font-size: 100% } (which is what you _should_ do) works well
on IE 6 and IE 7. It avoids the issue of support to attribute selectors -
and makes button texts, too, appear in reasonable size.
It has been my impression that IE7 has replaced IE6 on
almost every machine by now.
Don't be ridiculous. IE 7 isn't even available e.g. for Windows 98.

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

Feb 25 '07 #4
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
>
Using input { font-size: 100% } (which is what you _should_ do) works
well on IE 6 and IE 7. It avoids the issue of support to attribute
selectors - and makes button texts, too, appear in reasonable size
Instead of using ....

INPUT { font-size: 100% }

I'd be inclined use ... well nothing at all, which,
I think, is equivalent to your suggestion. But if
you are paid by lines of code - hey, go for it.

The problem is that IE6 and IE7 (in quirks mode) offers only
1 font size for a text input element - 11pt.
..
>
>It has been my impression that IE7 has replaced IE6 on
almost every machine by now.


Don't be ridiculous. IE 7 isn't even available e.g. for Windows 98.
You're right, I should forgo all improvements, features and
advancement of the last 9 years so as NOT to offend the
sensibilities of the 1% demographic of Windows 98 users out
there.

What was I thinking?

I prefer to develop with Firefox as my primary browser. The
ONLY reason I have IE on my system is that MOST computers
that I want to reach have IE as their default.

It's a numbers game my friend. What is so ridiculous about
that?

-Jim
Feb 25 '07 #5
Diogenes wrote:
Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

Using input { font-size: 100% } (which is what you _should_ do)
works well on IE 6 and IE 7. It avoids the issue of support to
attribute selectors - and makes button texts, too, appear in
reasonable size

Instead of using ....

INPUT { font-size: 100% }

I'd be inclined use ... well nothing at all, which,
I think, is equivalent to your suggestion. But if
you are paid by lines of code - hey, go for it.

The problem is that IE6 and IE7 (in quirks mode) offers only
1 font size for a text input element - 11pt.
.
It has been my impression that IE7 has replaced IE6 on
almost every machine by now.

Don't be ridiculous. IE 7 isn't even available e.g. for Windows 98.

You're right, I should forgo all improvements, features and
advancement of the last 9 years so as NOT to offend the
sensibilities of the 1% demographic of Windows 98 users out
there.

What was I thinking?

I prefer to develop with Firefox as my primary browser. The
ONLY reason I have IE on my system is that MOST computers
that I want to reach have IE as their default.

It's a numbers game my friend. What is so ridiculous about
that?

-Jim
Even disregarding win98 I doubt that IE7 has even hit a tenth of the IE users
out there.
Feb 25 '07 #6
Diogenes wrote:
>
>OTOH, attribute selectors won't work at all in IE6, so don't use them
for anything too important.

It has been my impression that IE7 has replaced IE6 on
almost every machine by now. Any idea of what % still run
IE6?
You must be reading Microsoft PR releases.
IE7 uptake is quite slow, it is not even available for Windows versions
prior to XP sp2. Given that at least 60% of Windows users have those older
versions, it will be quite a while (3 - 5 years) before IE6 becomes
somewhat irrelevant, a bit like IE5 is now.

--
jmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
Feb 25 '07 #7
Diogenes <no****@nospam. netwrote:
>Steve Pugh wrote:
>Diogenes <no****@nospam. netwrote:
>>>The following CSS rule works in FireFox but not in IE7

INPUT[type="text"] { font-size: 10pt }

Plug in any value in the above line. IE7 simply ignores it.

Works for me.

Interesting, it only works if I trigger standards mode. You must be
including a doctype that triggers quirks mode.

Hey, brilliant Steve! I swapped the DOCTYPE for the
following in the same document ...

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

and it works great! I've never dealt with quirks and
standards mode. Do you have a favorite bookmark
that discusses this?
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/
and
http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch.html
plus the various sites they reference.
>OTOH, attribute selectors won't work at all in IE6, so don't use them
for anything too important.

It has been my impression that IE7 has replaced IE6 on
almost every machine by now. Any idea of what % still run
IE6? I only have one system - IE6 and IE7 seem to be
mutually exclusive on a single system.
The stats for two sites I maintian (one high traffic general audience
site, another a hobby site) both have about two IE6 visits for every
one IE7 visit. I'd expect IE6 to be common for a couple of years to
come.

Steve
--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.n et <http://steve.pugh.net/>
Feb 25 '07 #8
Scripsit Diogenes:
Instead of using ....

INPUT { font-size: 100% }

I'd be inclined use ... well nothing at all, which,
I think, is equivalent to your suggestion.
It isn't equivalent at all. You need to learn some CSS before you can
understand this. Briefly, browsers may have all kinds of settings in their
browser style sheets, and IE has such settings for input elements, among
other things.
You're right, I should forgo all improvements, features and
advancement of the last 9 years so as NOT to offend the
sensibilities of the 1% demographic of Windows 98 users out
there.
You are really trying to ridicule yourself in public, are you not?
What was I thinking?
Not very much, apparently.

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

Feb 25 '07 #9
Diogenes wrote...
>It has been my impression that IE7 has replaced IE6 on
almost every machine by now. Any idea of what % still run
IE6? I only have one system - IE6 and IE7 seem to be
mutually exclusive on a single system.
The stats for my UK based sites show:
IE7 47%, IE6 39%, Firefox 9%, Safari 3%.
IE7 48%, IE6 38%, Firefox 10%, Safari 1%.
IE7 27%, IE6 55%, Firefox 16%, Safari 1%.
so IE6 is still alive and kicking in the UK.
--
Martin Clark
Feb 25 '07 #10

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

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Oralloy
by: Oralloy | last post by:
Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed. This is as boiled down as I can make it. Here is my compilation command: g++-12 -std=c++20 -Wnarrowing bit_field.cpp Here is the code in...
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9083
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that captivates audiences and drives business growth. The Art of Business Website Design Your website is...
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8977
by: Hystou | last post by:
Overview: Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows Update option using the Control Panel or Settings app; it automatically checks for updates and installs any it finds, whether you like it or not. For most users, this new feature is actually very convenient. If you want to control the update process,...
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8934
tracyyun
by: tracyyun | last post by:
Dear forum friends, With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
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6571
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules. He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms. Adolph will...
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4662
by: adsilva | last post by:
A Windows Forms form does not have the event Unload, like VB6. What one acts like?
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3102
by: 6302768590 | last post by:
Hai team i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system
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2398
muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.

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