Browser viewing - IE vs everyone else

[Diogenes]

Several articles I read recently regarding the demise
of Netscape Navigator stated that Firefox had managed
to get a 16% market share and that IE still has over 80%
of the eyeballs.

Yet my statistics and those of others indicate a much
higher % than that. For example

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Comments anyone?

Cheers
-Dio

[Bergamot]

Diogenes wrote:

>
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Comments anyone?

This doesn't have anything to do with stylesheets. Post in a more
appropriate newsgroup, please. alt.html comes to mind.

--
Berg

[dorayme]

In article <5u*************@mid.individual.net>,
Bergamot <be******@visi.comwrote:

Diogenes wrote:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Comments anyone?

This doesn't have anything to do with stylesheets. Post in a more
appropriate newsgroup, please. alt.html comes to mind.

<URL: http://www.html-faq.com/ />

--
dorayme

[Diogenes]

Bergamot wrote:

Diogenes wrote:

>http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Comments anyone?

This doesn't have anything to do with stylesheets. Post in a more
appropriate newsgroup, please. alt.html comes to mind.

My apologies, but I do find crafting CSS rules to work
with both IE and FF both challenging and quite frustrating.

I thought this might be an appropriate forum.

-Dio

[Bergamot]

Diogenes wrote:

Bergamot wrote:

>Diogenes wrote:

>>http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

This doesn't have anything to do with stylesheets.

My apologies, but I do find crafting CSS rules to work
with both IE and FF both challenging and quite frustrating.

So what was your point? Stop supporting IE altogether? That would be
ill-advised.

Personally, I only find it challenging or frustrating occasionally, but
then I've been using CSS layouts for many years. YMMV

BTW, stats are anywhere between merely a rough estimate and a WAG, so
take with a large grain of salt. Either way, the stats at w3schools.com
aren't typical of the average commercial web site. Different audience.

--
Berg

[David Dorward]

On Jan 5, 3:48*am, Diogenes <[e-mail]:

Several articles I read recently regarding the demise
of Netscape Navigator stated that Firefox had managed
to get a 16% market share and that IE still has over 80%
of the eyeballs.

Yet my statistics and those of others indicate a much
higher % than that. For example

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

That just means that the market share of browsers used to access a
(pretty poor) site about how to write webpages is different to the
market share of browsers used in whatever statistic gathering exercise
was used by the author of the article you read.

It isn't much of a surprise that people interested in writing webpages
are less likely to use Internet Explorer.

(Both sets of statistics are unlikely to be entirely accurate though)

--
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk/
http://blog.dorward.me.uk/

[Jeff]

Bergamot wrote:

Diogenes wrote:

>Bergamot wrote:

>>Diogenes wrote:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
This doesn't have anything to do with stylesheets.

My apologies, but I do find crafting CSS rules to work
with both IE and FF both challenging and quite frustrating.

So what was your point? Stop supporting IE altogether? That would be
ill-advised.

Personally, I only find it challenging or frustrating occasionally, but
then I've been using CSS layouts for many years. YMMV

BTW, stats are anywhere between merely a rough estimate and a WAG, so
take with a large grain of salt. Either way, the stats at w3schools.com
aren't typical of the average commercial web site. Different audience.

Absolutely. I rarely have a client who isn't using IE. And if you
don't care about your client...

Jeff

>

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Diogenes wrote:

Oooo, I bet you're really good at it too.

Not nice. I almost didn't post this suggestion.

Please show me how to get IE to have the body of a table scroll under
a fixed header (the rows scroll under the column headings). It's
easy in FF, was possible in IE6, but is altogether buggered up in
IE7.

This example was written before IE7, and I have no access to 7 to test
it. Works in IE6. You have a ball with it; see if it works in 7.

http://www.imaputz.com/cssStuff/bigFourVersion.html
and a link from there to:
http://www.imaputz.com/cssStuff/bulletVersion.html

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

[Bergamot]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

>
Works in IE6. You have a ball with it; see if it works in 7.

http://www.imaputz.com/cssStuff/bigFourVersion.html
http://www.imaputz.com/cssStuff/bulletVersion.html

Doesn't work in IE7, I'm afraid.

--
Berg

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Bergamot wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

>Works in IE6. You have a ball with it; see if it works in 7.

http://www.imaputz.com/cssStuff/bigFourVersion.html
http://www.imaputz.com/cssStuff/bulletVersion.html

Doesn't work in IE7, I'm afraid.

Heh. Oh well...

I've never had the need for a scrolling table body, so I am not going to
worry about it. If you have some time to solve it, be sure to post the
solution. ;-)

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista

[Bergamot]

Diogenes wrote:

Bergamot wrote:

>>
So what was your point? Stop supporting IE altogether? That would be
ill-advised.

I did not have a point, I had a question.

Sorry, but your only question was "Comments anyone?". Comment on what?
The fact that some sites have different ratios of IE to Firefox? Yeah,
they do. And...?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, really, but it sounds like you want
to make a point, get some guidance, or something (who knows?). It
escapes me what it is or how it relates to the subject of this newsgroup
(stylesheets).

But you sir, are a troll.

No, I'm not.

Please show me how to get IE to have the body of a table scroll under
a fixed header (the rows scroll under the column headings). It's easy
in FF, was possible in IE6, but is altogether buggered up in IE7.

I've never had a need to do that, so I don't have an answer. Maybe
someone else does.

I will rephrase the original post.

IE is losing market share because it is an inferior product.

In some areas, probably, though "inferior" is subjective and includes
stuff besides just its CSS support. I personally think it's feature-poor
and I don't like IE7's UI, which have nothing at all to do with CSS.

But I will say that readers of this group are knowledgeable about
compatibility issues on the 'Big 3' browsers many would be privy
to the statistics on the sites they conceive, develop and/or
manage.

THAT is why I posted here.

I still don't see how these statistics you seek are related to
stylesheets, except perhaps indirectly. They might be remotely useful
for deciding whether to drop/add CSS support for some particular
browser, based on some trends beyond your own stats. You said nothing
about this, so...? Maybe I'm just dense. :-\

BTW, I'm not sure what browser besides IE and Firefox you consider in
the 'Big 3'. Is that 3rd one Opera or Safari? Safari may have a larger
share than Opera so maybe you should make that the 'Big 4' just to cover
all your bases. Not that it matters, since both render much the same as
Firefox. Not a lot in the way of compatibility issues there.

--
Berg

[Ben Bacarisse]

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalidwrites:

Diogenes wrote:

>Please show me how to get IE to have the body of a table scroll under
a fixed header (the rows scroll under the column headings). It's
easy in FF, was possible in IE6, but is altogether buggered up in
IE7.

This example was written before IE7, and I have no access to 7 to test
it. Works in IE6. You have a ball with it; see if it works in 7.

http://www.imaputz.com/cssStuff/bigFourVersion.html
and a link from there to:
http://www.imaputz.com/cssStuff/bulletVersion.html

Both fail in my "fake" IE7. As a Linux user I emulate IE using
wine[1] when I need to test a site so I'd be interested in the "real"
answer just in case there is a difference.

[1] The wonderful IEs 4 Linux project at:
http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page

--
Ben.

[Diogenes]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Diogenes wrote:

>Oooo, I bet you're really good at it too.

Not nice. I almost didn't post this suggestion.

Yes, a little nasty, but the first responses
I received were a little dismissive.

I found the same link you did several months ago
when I was trying to get IE to work. It was a heroic
effort, but it does not work in IE7. Only a single
row shows.

I have 2 XP systems, and now both have IE7, so I can no
longer test IE6. This is a concern. It seems that IE7
has been slower on the uptake than I originally figured

Suggestions here please?

And I have observed differences between XP and Vista
when using the same version of IE7. It's pissing me
off. FF (and I am assuming Safari/Opera) works the
same on all OS's. It's IE that causes me all the grief.

Cheers
-Dio

[Diogenes]

Bergamot wrote:

>

Heh. Oh well...

I've never had the need for a scrolling table body, so I am not going to
worry about it. If you have some time to solve it, be sure to post the
solution. ;-)

Maybe IE8, but I doubt it.

[Diogenes]

Ben Bacarisse wrote:

>
Both fail in my "fake" IE7. As a Linux user I emulate IE using
wine[1] when I need to test a site so I'd be interested in the "real"
answer just in case there is a difference.

[1] The wonderful IEs 4 Linux project at:
http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page

My next system will be 'MS free'. Probably Linux,
maybe even Apple, but it will not be MS.

We need a good MS-Free logo here, one that evokes a
sense of organic, healthy, alternative lifestyle
choices for our beloved computers. ;-)

Cheers
-Dio

[Diogenes]

Bergamot wrote:

Diogenes wrote:

>But I will say that readers of this group are knowledgeable about
compatibility issues on the 'Big 3' browsers many would be privy
to the statistics on the sites they conceive, develop and/or
manage.

THAT is why I posted here.

I still don't see how these statistics you seek are related to
stylesheets, except perhaps indirectly. They might be remotely useful
for deciding whether to drop/add CSS support for some particular
browser, based on some trends beyond your own stats. You said nothing
about this, so...? Maybe I'm just dense. :-\

So what are the numbers on the sites you work with? Or is that
private?

One of the common goals here should be to reach the widest possible
audience with the least amount of work. ;-)

>
BTW, I'm not sure what browser besides IE and Firefox you consider in
the 'Big 3'. Is that 3rd one Opera or Safari? Safari may have a larger
share than Opera so maybe you should make that the 'Big 4' just to cover
all your bases. Not that it matters, since both render much the same as
Firefox. Not a lot in the way of compatibility issues there.

I stand corrected, I should have said Big 4.

-Dio

[Bergamot]

Diogenes wrote:

>
I have 2 XP systems, and now both have IE7, so I can no
longer test IE6.

Sure you can. It's easy as long as you've got an XP system. It's doable
on Vista, but more complicated.
http://www.google.com/search?q=multiple%20IE

Get all the old IE versions you want at
http://browsers.evolt.org/?ie/32bit/standalone

--
Berg

[Bergamot]

Diogenes wrote:

Bergamot wrote:

>>
I still don't see how these statistics you seek are related to
stylesheets, except perhaps indirectly.

So what are the numbers on the sites you work with? Or is that
private?

Privacy is not the issue. Relevancy is. To me, how many of what browser
is a curiosity at best and doesn't influence whatever design decisions I
make. Go for standards first, then tweak for individual browsers *if*
needed.

If the IE numbers fell below 10%, I'd consider dropping *extra* support
for it and let it settle for graceful degradation like other old
browsers, but it's unlikely it will hit that point in the foreseeable
future.

--
Berg

[Diogenes]

Thanks Berg, I shall do that.

-Dio