What is Opera doing differently here?

[Marco Bakker]

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

Tested with:
Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
Camino 0.8 (Mac)
IE 6 (Windows)
Opera 7.5 (Mac)

The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
background image; the other images should 'fit'.

It might be a bit risky to make a layout that is so dependent on pixel
precise positioning, but I though I avoided using code that would be
problematic.

I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)

--
marco

[Spartanicus]

mb*****@mac.kom .invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

Tested with:
Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
Camino 0.8 (Mac)
IE 6 (Windows)
Opera 7.5 (Mac)

The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
background image; the other images should 'fit'.

Opera (correctly) uses default padding on the body element, other UAs
commonly use margin. (add padding:0 to your body style).

--
Spartanicus

[Steve Pugh]

mb*****@mac.kom .invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

Tested with:
Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
Camino 0.8 (Mac)
IE 6 (Windows)
Opera 7.5 (Mac)

The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
background image; the other images should 'fit'.
You've set body {margin: 0 auto;}
Opera doesn't have default margin on body, it has default padding.
So add padding: 0; and all will be well.
It might be a bit risky to make a layout that is so dependent on pixel
precise positioning, but I though I avoided using code that would be
problematic.
Biggest problems I can see are:
1.the complete lack of useful alt attributes. With images turned off
the page is useless.
2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
can read anything.
I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)

The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

[Els]

Steve Pugh wrote:

mb*****@mac.kom .invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

Biggest problems I can see are:
1.the complete lack of useful alt attributes. With images turned off
the page is useless.
2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
can read anything.

3. Slips off left side in Gecko if window is narrower than
750px.

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

[Marco Bakker]

Spartanicus <[e-mail] > wrote:

mb*****@mac.kom .invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

Tested with:
Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
Camino 0.8 (Mac)
IE 6 (Windows)
Opera 7.5 (Mac)

The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
background image; the other images should 'fit'.

Opera (correctly) uses default padding on the body element, other UAs
commonly use margin. (add padding:0 to your body style).

Thanks! Great.

--
marco

[Marco Bakker]

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > wrote:

mb*****@mac.kom .invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

Tested with:
Safari 1.2.2 (Mac)
Firefox 0.8 (Mac)
IE 5.2.3 (Mac)
Camino 0.8 (Mac)
IE 6 (Windows)
Opera 7.5 (Mac)

The latter is the only one who displays the page differently.
All <div>'s are placed 8px down. Which is best seen by looking at the
background image; the other images should 'fit'.
You've set body {margin: 0 auto;}
Opera doesn't have default margin on body, it has default padding.
So add padding: 0; and all will be well.

It might be a bit risky to make a layout that is so dependent on pixel
precise positioning, but I though I avoided using code that would be
problematic.

Biggest problems I can see are:
1.the complete lack of useful alt attributes. With images turned off
the page is useless.

Yes, the 'alt' text was on the to do list. I test in Lynx always, so
that I would have noticed at some stage.
2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
can read anything.
0.8em is what I think I will be using.

I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)

The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;

That will break the whole layout. Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.
Absolute positioning, no auto centering, yikes.

Thanks Steve.
--
marco

[Els]

Marco Bakker wrote:

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > wrote:

mb*****@mac.k om.invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)

The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;

That will break the whole layout. Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.
Absolute positioning, no auto centering, yikes.

Not if you set text-align:center to the body.
That will center align the page in IE5, while the auto
margins do it for the rest of the browsers.

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

[Marco Bakker]

Els <el*********@ti scali.nl> wrote:

Steve Pugh wrote:

mb*****@mac.kom .invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

Biggest problems I can see are:
1.the complete lack of useful alt attributes. With images turned off
the page is useless.
2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
can read anything.

3. Slips off left side in Gecko if window is narrower than
750px.

You mean the background starting to 'travel'? That's fine. I tested it
on a 800x600 laptop and it was fine. I have to draw a line somewhere
(with this design) and that is at 800x600.

--
marco

[Els]

Marco Bakker wrote:

Els <el*********@ti scali.nl> wrote:

http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

3. Slips off left side in Gecko if window is narrower than
750px.

You mean the background starting to 'travel'? That's fine. I tested it
on a 800x600 laptop and it was fine. I have to draw a line somewhere
(with this design) and that is at 800x600.

No, the background isn't important.
The content slips off screen to the left, where the
scrollbar can't get to it.
Easy to avoid by setting a border on the whole page. Set the
border in the same color as the background and noone will
notice.
Another method is setting a min-width to the page, as the
problem only occurs in Gecko browsers, it's not a problem
that IE doesn't read that.

--
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

[Steve Pugh]

mb*****@mac.kom .invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > wrote:

mb*****@mac.kom .invalid (Marco Bakker) wrote:

>http://www.iboi.nl/dev/

2. Text size set in pixels, which means that IE users can't easily
resize it. And considering that you've set the text size to a tiny
size at least some of them are going to need to resize it before they
can read anything.
0.8em is what I think I will be using.

Well, at least that's only 20% smaller than the browser default,
rather than the 38% smaller that you have at the moment (assuming
factory settings, could be more or less for individual users). So a
step in the right direction.

>I didn't have the guts to try it out yet in IE5/5.5/Win though :-)

The content is left aligned, because Win IE5.x doesn't support
margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;

That will break the whole layout. Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.

Not really. The page is still alid out as you specified, just on the
left rather than in the middle.
Absolute positioning, no auto centering, yikes.

There's no need to use absolute positioning here. Just set text-align:
center; on body (and text-align: left on all the children) and IE5.x
will (incorrently) center it.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>