1. CSS has five generic font family specifiers: serif, sans-serif, cursive,
fantasy, monospace. IE lets the users select a default proportional font and
a default monospace font. Is there any way in IE for a user to indicate more
specifically what his preferred fonts are for serif and sans-serif,
respectively (at least, if not cursive and fantasy as well)? Do other
browsers allow a default font to be specified for all five of these generic
specifiers?
2. I just noticed that, with no fixed font-size specifiers in my style
sheet, IE6 nevertheless does not change the size of the lettering on form
controls when I change the text size in the browser. The rest of the text on
the page grows or shrinks as it should, but not the labels on buttons or the
content of input fields. Adding
input, select, textarea {font-size: 100%; }
to my style sheet solves the problem. But do I have to resort to that, or is
there something else that can be causing the problem in the first place? Do
any other (current) browsers exhibit this problem?
3. Regarding what I just read here about the Verdana issue, which was
enlightening (I'm adding to my inventory of suggestions to clients for new
web site designs that they not specify font family beyond the generics, if
possible): There are lots of rules regarding precedence of competing styles
in the cascade, and for the partial or complete ignoring of rules that can't
be satisfied. At some point I should get to know them, but for the time
being I wondered whether someone has a ready answer for this question: In
order to provide properly sized Verdana for people who have it, without
having the font appear too small for people who don't, would (in reality or
theoretically) any of these work?
body { font: 85% Verdana; font: 100% sans-serif; }
or
body { font: 100% sans-serif; font: 85% Verdana; }
or
body { font: 100% sans-serif; }
body { font: 85% Verdana; }
or
body { font: 85% Verdana; }
body { font: 100% sans-serif; }
--
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.
Jul 20 '05
16  2995 
In article Peter Foti wrote: "Rijk van Geijtenbeek" <ri**@opera.com > wrote in message
news:op******** ******@news.ind ividual.net... body { font: 100% sans-serif; }
body { font: 85% Verdana; }
Nice idea, but it doesn't work. A browser will recognize the second rule
even if it doesn't have access to a font names 'Verdana'. You'll get 85%
+ 'sans-serif' in MSIE (wrongly), and 85% + 'default font' in Opera,
Mozilla and Firebird, but you can't get 100% + 'sans-serif' this way.
Does anyone know if the CSS working group has any plans to add means for
specifying the font family and size to be interpreted as a whole instead of
individually? Since font size seems to be very dependent upon the font
family, it seems logical to me that there should be some way of specifying
the combination. For example:
body { font-size-family: 85% Verdana; }
Which could be preceeded by a fallback case:
body { font: 100% sans-serif; }
body { font-size-family: 85% Verdana; } /* Only applied if family exists */
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html
So it is possible in CSS2 using absolute units. Don't ask me why not
relative units, I don't know.
I haven't checked the CSS working group in a while... not sure if there's
anything like this in the works, but it seems to me that something like this
could be very useful.
Don't know anything about future plans.
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
"Lauri Raittila" <la***@raittila .cjb.net> wrote in message
news:MP******** *************** *@news.cis.dfn. de... In article Peter Foti wrote: "Rijk van Geijtenbeek" <ri**@opera.com > wrote in message
news:op******** ******@news.ind ividual.net... > body { font: 100% sans-serif; }
> body { font: 85% Verdana; }
Nice idea, but it doesn't work. A browser will recognize the second
rule even if it doesn't have access to a font names 'Verdana'. You'll get
85% + 'sans-serif' in MSIE (wrongly), and 85% + 'default font' in Opera,
Mozilla and Firebird, but you can't get 100% + 'sans-serif' this way.
Does anyone know if the CSS working group has any plans to add means for
specifying the font family and size to be interpreted as a whole instead
of individually? Since font size seems to be very dependent upon the font
family, it seems logical to me that there should be some way of
specifying the combination. For example:
body { font-size-family: 85% Verdana; }
Which could be preceeded by a fallback case:
body { font: 100% sans-serif; }
body { font-size-family: 85% Verdana; } /* Only applied if family exists
*/
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html
They recited the formula for "aspect" backwards, "font size divided by
x-height", but applied the correct formula in getting the aspect of Verdana
to be 0.58 given that when the font size is 100 units, the x-height is 58.
How can the typical web author find out what the aspect is for a font?
So it is possible in CSS2 using absolute units. Don't ask me why not
relative units, I don't know.
I didn't see where it implied that font-size-adjust wouldn't work for
relative units.
"Harlan Messinger" <h.*********@co mcast.net> wrote in message
news:bt******** ****@ID-114100.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Lauri Raittila" <la***@raittila .cjb.net> wrote in message
news:MP******** *************** *@news.cis.dfn. de... In article Peter Foti wrote: "Rijk van Geijtenbeek" <ri**@opera.com > wrote in message
news:op******** ******@news.ind ividual.net...
> > body { font: 100% sans-serif; }
> > body { font: 85% Verdana; }
>
>
> Nice idea, but it doesn't work. A browser will recognize the second rule > even if it doesn't have access to a font names 'Verdana'. You'll get 85% > + 'sans-serif' in MSIE (wrongly), and 85% + 'default font' in Opera,
> Mozilla and Firebird, but you can't get 100% + 'sans-serif' this
way.
Does anyone know if the CSS working group has any plans to add means
for specifying the font family and size to be interpreted as a whole
instead of individually? Since font size seems to be very dependent upon the
font family, it seems logical to me that there should be some way of specifying the combination. For example: body { font-size-family: 85% Verdana; }
Which could be preceeded by a fallback case:
body { font: 100% sans-serif; }
body { font-size-family: 85% Verdana; } /* Only applied if family
exists */
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html
They recited the formula for "aspect" backwards, "font size divided by
x-height", but applied the correct formula in getting the aspect of
Verdana to be 0.58 given that when the font size is 100 units, the x-height is 58.
How can the typical web author find out what the aspect is for a font?
An excellent point. I think the W3 is making the solution out to be
something unrealistic. In addition, their solution is NOT backwards
compatible. Here's why:
If a user agent doesn't support font-size-adjust (I assume that pre-CSS2
browsers don't), and they have style definitions such as:
/* Substitute SOMEVALUE with actual value, whatever that may be */
body {font: 85% verdana,arial,s ans-serif; }
body {font-size-adjust: SOMEVALUE; }
Then the 85% will be applied to the Arial font if no Verdana installed (or
to sans-serif if no Arial either). My proposal would be to create a new
property, such that if it was not supported would not break backwards
compatibility (or at least, break compatibility in a more friendly way).
For example, the solution I suggested previously:
body { font: 100% arial,sans-serif; }
body { font-size-family: 85% Verdana; }
Assuming the browser doesn't support font-size-adjust or font-size-family:
With font-size-adjust, the small size of the wrong font will be applied.
With font-size-family, the client *could* have Verdana installed, but would
display 100% arial instead. Personally, I think this second option is more
user friendly, because presumably, 100% Arial is acceptable for those who
DON'T have Verdan installed, whereas 85% Arial is probably UN-acceptable.
So it is possible in CSS2 using absolute units. Don't ask me why not
relative units, I don't know.
I didn't see where it implied that font-size-adjust wouldn't work for
relative units.
Me either. It think she was wrong regarding that point (it would make no
sense to include a limitation like that... then again, the proposed solution
doesn't make much sense anyway since it requires insane knowledge of font
aspect ratios).
Regards,
Peter Foti
In article Harlan Messinger wrote:
"Lauri Raittila" <la***@raittila .cjb.net> wrote in message
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html
They recited the formula for "aspect" backwards, "font size divided by
x-height", but applied the correct formula in getting the aspect of Verdana
to be 0.58 given that when the font size is 100 units, the x-height is 58.
How can the typical web author find out what the aspect is for a font?
Testing. So it is possible in CSS2 using absolute units. Don't ask me why not
relative units, I don't know.
I didn't see where it implied that font-size-adjust wouldn't work for
relative units.
I meaned combining family and size, what you asked. Using @font-face
thingy.
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
In article Peter Foti wrote: "Harlan Messinger" <h.*********@co mcast.net> wrote: I didn't see where it implied that font-size-adjust wouldn't work for
relative units.
Me either. It think she was wrong regarding that point (it would make no
sense to include a limitation like that... then again, the proposed solution
doesn't make much sense anyway since it requires insane knowledge of font
aspect ratios).
Should have included this in first post, but forgot: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#descdef-font-size
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Saapi lähettää meiliä, jos aihe ei liity ryhmään, tai on yksityinen
tjsp., mutta älä lähetä samaa viestiä meilitse ja ryhmään.
"Lauri Raittila" <la***@raittila .cjb.net> wrote in message
news:MP******** *************** *@news.cis.dfn. de... In article Peter Foti wrote: "Harlan Messinger" <h.*********@co mcast.net> wrote:
I didn't see where it implied that font-size-adjust wouldn't work for
relative units.
Me either. It think she was wrong regarding that point (it would make
no sense to include a limitation like that... then again, the proposed
solution doesn't make much sense anyway since it requires insane knowledge of
font aspect ratios).
Should have included this in first post, but forgot:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#descdef-font-size
This is from a related but separate part of the spec: font selection (15.3),
versus font specification (15.2). Without looking too closely into the
distinction, font selection involves font descriptions created using the
@font-face at-rule, and descriptors that have the same names as the
corresponding font-related CSS properties. The section you site applies to
the descriptor called "font-size".
"Harlan Messinger" <h.*********@co mcast.net> wrote in message
news:bt******** ****@ID-114100.news.uni-berlin.de...
This is from a related but separate part of the spec: font selection
(15.3), versus font specification (15.2). Without looking too closely into the
distinction, font selection involves font descriptions created using the
@font-face at-rule, and descriptors that have the same names as the
corresponding font-related CSS properties. The section you site applies to
the descriptor called "font-size".
In your earlier posting, you only gave the URL for the entire page on fonts,
and when I searched for "font-size-adjust", I came to the first reference,
which was the one under font specification (15.2). Now I realize you many
have been referring to 15.3 (font selection) all along. This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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