Problem with simple frames w/table

[ohaya]

Hi,

I have an HTML page that has a single FRAMESET and several FRAMEs on it.
One of the FRAMEs contains a page with a table in it.

The problem that I'm running into is that when the page is viewed with IE,
everything looks fine, but, for some reason, it's possible to scroll the
contents of the frame with the table in it, even though we've turned off the
scrollbar.

So far, it seems like this is a problem with IE. I've tested with Netscape
4.79, and that doesn't seem to have this problem.

Here's a link to a test page that I set up that demostrates this problem:

http://members.cox.net/ohaya/small.htm

I think that I may've found a way to "disable" this scrolling in IE using an
IE-specific event (onSelectStart) , but I'm really kind of puzzled and
curious why this problem is occurring.

The table is pretty simple, set to "100%" for both height and width, so it
should just "fill" the frame.

Can anyone suggest what the problem is (and how to fix it)?

Thanks,
Jim

[Brian]

ohaya wrote:

I have an HTML page that has a single FRAMESET and several FRAMEs on
it. One of the FRAMEs contains a page with a table in it.
Oh boy, this is gonna be fun.
when the page is viewed with IE, everything looks fine, but, for some
reason, it's possible to scroll the contents of the frame with the
table in it,
Well, that's pretty normal. Browsers have scrollbars for just that reason.
even though we've turned off the scrollbar.
You did? What on earth for?
So far, it seems like this is a problem with IE.
It's a problem that IE gives users a scrollbar? Because to me, that
seems like a feature.
I've tested with Netscape 4.79, and that doesn't seem to have this
problem.
NN 4.x not having a scrollbar, this you think is a good thing. I'm puzzled.
I think that I may've found a way to "disable" this scrolling in IE
using an IE-specific event (onSelectStart) ,
Brian <-- (to himself) "Oh, right, *that's* why I disabled javascript!"
Can anyone suggest what the problem is
You want to control the ui of the visitor's browser.
(and how to fix it)?

Stop wanting that.

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[ohaya]

Hi Brian,

I'd done some searching in the newsgroups (including this one) for a
solution, prior to posting.

Quite frankly, I was hesitant, as I'd seen some posts as to distaste to
using frames, but this is a problem that I've been given to try to resolve
(our customer is the one who's brought this up). Unfortunately, your post,
which was really not very helpful, reinforced my original concern. I hope
that others here can contribute something more useful.

Jim

"Brian" <us*****@juliet remblay.com.inv alid> wrote in message
news:10******** *****@corp.supe rnews.com...

ohaya wrote:

I have an HTML page that has a single FRAMESET and several FRAMEs on
it. One of the FRAMEs contains a page with a table in it.
Oh boy, this is gonna be fun.

when the page is viewed with IE, everything looks fine, but, for some
reason, it's possible to scroll the contents of the frame with the
table in it,

Well, that's pretty normal. Browsers have scrollbars for just that reason.

even though we've turned off the scrollbar.

You did? What on earth for?

So far, it seems like this is a problem with IE.

It's a problem that IE gives users a scrollbar? Because to me, that
seems like a feature.

I've tested with Netscape 4.79, and that doesn't seem to have this
problem.

NN 4.x not having a scrollbar, this you think is a good thing. I'm

puzzled.

I think that I may've found a way to "disable" this scrolling in IE
using an IE-specific event (onSelectStart) ,

Brian <-- (to himself) "Oh, right, *that's* why I disabled javascript!"

Can anyone suggest what the problem is

You want to control the ui of the visitor's browser.

(and how to fix it)?

Stop wanting that.

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[ohaya]

Hi,

I forgot to mention that the "real" pages that have this problem actually
also use DIVs, etc. The sample page that I linked to was the result of my
trying to narrow the problem down to be able to demonstrate the problem
simply.

Thanks,
Jim
"ohaya" <ohaya_NO_SPAM@ NO_SPAM_cox.net > wrote in message
news:awmhc.9293 $55.474@lakerea d02...

Hi Brian,

I'd done some searching in the newsgroups (including this one) for a
solution, prior to posting.

Quite frankly, I was hesitant, as I'd seen some posts as to distaste to
using frames, but this is a problem that I've been given to try to resolve
(our customer is the one who's brought this up). Unfortunately, your post, which was really not very helpful, reinforced my original concern. I hope
that others here can contribute something more useful.

Jim

"Brian" <us*****@juliet remblay.com.inv alid> wrote in message
news:10******** *****@corp.supe rnews.com...

ohaya wrote:

I have an HTML page that has a single FRAMESET and several FRAMEs on
it. One of the FRAMEs contains a page with a table in it.

Oh boy, this is gonna be fun.

when the page is viewed with IE, everything looks fine, but, for some
reason, it's possible to scroll the contents of the frame with the
table in it,

Well, that's pretty normal. Browsers have scrollbars for just that reason.

even though we've turned off the scrollbar.

You did? What on earth for?

So far, it seems like this is a problem with IE.

It's a problem that IE gives users a scrollbar? Because to me, that
seems like a feature.

I've tested with Netscape 4.79, and that doesn't seem to have this
problem.

NN 4.x not having a scrollbar, this you think is a good thing. I'm

puzzled.

I think that I may've found a way to "disable" this scrolling in IE
using an IE-specific event (onSelectStart) ,

Brian <-- (to himself) "Oh, right, *that's* why I disabled javascript!"

Can anyone suggest what the problem is

You want to control the ui of the visitor's browser.

(and how to fix it)?

Stop wanting that.

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Brian]

ohaya wrote:

I'd done some searching in the newsgroups (including this one) for a
solution, prior to posting.
And you didn't notice how we normally post messages?

http://allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post
Quite frankly, I was hesitant, as I'd seen some posts as to distaste
to using frames,
We don't like them, it's true. But that's not the biggest problem I see
with your design goals. At least frames keep you in the right place, in
the content area of the browser.

ohaya wrote:

we've turned off the scrollbar.

Once you decide to mess with the scrollbar, you've left your domain as
author in an attempt to control the user's interface. This will either
(a) confuse or annoy the user; or (b) have no effect at all. Which do
you want?
Unfortunately, your post, which was really not very helpful,
reinforced my original concern.
Welcome to usenet! :-) (I'd say that my post was actually helpful, if
pithy, but your reply -- indeed, your original post -- suggests that you
won't believe me.)
I hope that others here can contribute something more useful.

Don't get your hopes too high. Most people don't like having authors
diminish the capabilities of their software, and thus will be
understandably reluctant to help you. And even if there are some, there
is no way to eliminate scrollbars in every case. Nor can you remove
toolbars, nor menus, nor status bars. You cannot hide where a link might
take someone. In short, you cannot control the ui, nor should you try.

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Ulujain]

Brian wrote:

We don't like them, it's true. But that's not the biggest problem I see

Who is we? Another guy speaking for everybody on Usenet; when will it
end? ^_^

If you mean you, write you.

'Later
Peter
--
Peter aka Ulujain - Computing for Fun!
http://www.ulujain.org/

[Brian]

Ulujain wrote:

Brian wrote:

We don't like them,
[the antecedent, unhelpfully snipped, is "frames"]
it's true. But that's not the biggest problem I see
Who is we?

Google the group for frames, and you'll get a rough idea of the group's
feeling toward frames. But as I said, it is not the biggest problem in
any case.
Another guy speaking for everybody on Usenet;
Has there been an increase in people speaking for others in ciwah?
when will it end? ^_^

When did it *start*?

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Brian]

[tofu posting corrected; apologies for repeated attributes, but I think
it's clearer that way]

ohaya wrote:

Hi
Hello!

ohaya wrote:

for some reason, it's possible to scroll the contents of the
frame with the table in it,

even though we've turned off the scrollbar. So far, it seems
like this is a problem with IE. Can anyone suggest what the problem is (and how to fix it)?

ohaya wrote:
I forgot to mention that the "real" pages that have this problem
actually also use DIVs, etc.
I'm stumped. How am I supposed to read this? Is DIV some sort of magic
password that will make me want to help you achieve what is, depending
on the browser, either impossible or annoying?
The sample page that I linked to was the result of my trying to
narrow the problem down to be able to demonstrate the problem simply.
And there, you succeeded, for I was able to grasp the problem very quickly.
Thanks

You are most welcome.

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/