IE box model problem

[ChrisW]

Hi,

I've not had many problems with differences between the IE and Firefox
interpretation of the box-model before, but my current site seems to
have the symptoms of being affected by it!

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ccw34/index_ff.html

Although I understand how it comes about, I don't fully understand a
couple of the hacks I've read to counter it. I've also read that the
problem was fixed from IE6.0 (although dependent on the Doctype [1]),
but changing the Doctype doesn't seem to make any difference on this
site in IE7.

If anyone can offer any clues in how to fix the problem, I'd be most
grateful.

Thanks,
Chris

1. http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamat...t-boxmodel.htm

[ChrisW]

On 10 Nov, 23:38, dorayme <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote:

In article
<7376230b-bb33-4a68-ae5e-1dff53522...@1g 2000prd.googleg roups.com>,

*ChrisW <c.c.w...@gmail .comwrote:

On 10 Nov, 21:29, dorayme <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote:

Anyway, perhaps start over with simple HTML:

...

ie. removing your <br>s and all the javascript, and complicated CSS
(positioning). And build from here, validating all the way as a check
for yourself.

That's where I started from (and where I start all my websites from,
ever since I taught myself xHTML and CSS (+ PHP / MySQL / XML...)
about 6 years ago). *I've never had to build this precise kind of
layout tho, and was hoping someone might just have a quick tip on
something that I hadn't thought of about things I could change in the
CSS. *I'm not looking for someone to give me the complete answer, but
I might have been a bit narrow minded and not realised of another way
of doing something.

OK, things start simple and later get complicated and problems come up.
But the point I had in mind is that you must be especially careful along
the way from making poor decisions as you build. Why would you insert
double breaks, to take a trivial case that likely has nothing to do with
your immediate concern, in a paragraph instead of simply making more
paragraphs? I was puzzled by why you felt you had to wrap the HI in a
div?

The real point is that if you start and proceed in the *simplest* way,
your immediate concern would be unlikely to arise at all.

--
dorayme

Maybe I should layout my reasoning behind what I've done:

The <h1is for the text, and has a grey border bottom
The <h1container is only there to provide the short, horizontal
length of blue border (under the word 'Hello')
The basicInfoBox contains the text
The border is needed because of the way JQuery creates curved edges
(this effect wouldn't be possible without the extra div) - the h1
overlaps this using z-indexes, to prevent the top border from being
seen

(All of the other divs in the CSS are to do with the menu, and can be
ignored)

I did think that having a div wrapped around the h1 just for the small
horizontal blue line was a bit over the top, but as I said, I couldn't
think of any other way to do it. I did think this may have been part
of my problem, which is why I asked here.

Thanks,
Chris

[dorayme]

In article
<1b************ *************** *******@q30g200 0prq.googlegrou ps.com>,
ChrisW <c.******@gmail .comwrote:

On 10 Nov, 23:38, dorayme wrote:

....

OK, things start simple and later get complicated and problems come up.
But the point I had in mind is that you must be especially careful along
the way from making poor decisions as you build. Why would you insert
double breaks, to take a trivial case that likely has nothing to do with
your immediate concern, in a paragraph instead of simply making more
paragraphs? I was puzzled by why you felt you had to wrap the HI in a
div?

The real point is that if you start and proceed in the *simplest* way,
your immediate concern would be unlikely to arise at all.

Maybe I should layout my reasoning behind what I've done:

The <h1is for the text, and has a grey border bottom
The <h1container is only there to provide the short, horizontal
length of blue border (under the word 'Hello')

<http://www.srcf.ucam.o rg/~ccw34/index_ff.html>

Perhaps you mean under the word "Home"?

The basicInfoBox contains the text
The border is needed because of the way JQuery creates curved edges
(this effect wouldn't be possible without the extra div) - the h1
overlaps this using z-indexes, to prevent the top border from being
seen

All questions about curved this or that need to go to out resident expet
on curvature and especially corner-curvature, Nick Coughlin. I don't do
curves, I am a straight up and down with the occasional diagonal sort of
being. I like circles a lot but I use Illustrator for them. <g>

(All of the other divs in the CSS are to do with the menu, and can be
ignored)

I did think that having a div wrapped around the h1 just for the small
horizontal blue line was a bit over the top, but as I said, I couldn't
think of any other way to do it. I did think this may have been part
of my problem, which is why I asked here.

You can get an extra blue lie under one of the words by
<span>word</spanand playing with CSS like

border-bottom: 6px solid #99c;

I will tell you the truth: I really have no firm idea of what look you
actually want. You have provided screenshots that no one would want the
look of but have not provided the actual ideal you want. Draw a pic.

--
dorayme

[Nik Coughlin]

"dorayme" <do************ @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message
news:do******** *************** ***********@new s-vip.optusnet.co m.au...

All questions about curved this or that need to go to out resident expet
on curvature and especially corner-curvature, Nick Coughlin. I don't do
curves, I am a straight up and down with the occasional diagonal sort of
being. I like circles a lot but I use Illustrator for them. <g>

*ding*

Did someone page me? What's going on here then?

[dorayme]

In article <gf**********@r egistered.motza rella.org>,
"Nik Coughlin" <nr******@gmail .comwrote:

"dorayme" <do************ @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message
news:do******** *************** ***********@new s-vip.optusnet.co m.au...

All questions about curved this or that need to go to our resident expert
on curvature and especially corner-curvature, Nick Coughlin...

*ding*

Did someone page me? What's going on here then?

I think a rounded corner box, among other things and issues, is being
attempted at:

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ccw34/index_ff.html

--
dorayme

[Nik Coughlin]

"dorayme" <do************ @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message
news:do******** *************** ***********@new s-vip.optusnet.co m.au...

In article <gf**********@r egistered.motza rella.org>,
"Nik Coughlin" <nr******@gmail .comwrote:

>"dorayme" <do************ @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message
news:do******* *************** ************@ne ws-vip.optusnet.co m.au...

All questions about curved this or that need to go to our resident
expert
on curvature and especially corner-curvature, Nick Coughlin...

*ding*

Did someone page me? What's going on here then?

I think a rounded corner box, among other things and issues, is being
attempted at:

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ccw34/index_ff.html

Oh I see.

Using the OP's jq.corners (don't like them personally, no antialiasing and
using the parent + padding to provide a border is nasty):
http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/jq.corner.html

Using CSS3:
http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/index.html

Using images:
http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/images.html

The last breaks in IE6 or lower. It can be fixed and I have done so in the
past but I can't be bothered determining what bug it is, sorry, but Google
will help you here.

[ChrisW]

On 11 Nov, 04:31, "Nik Coughlin" <nrkn....@gmail .comwrote:

"dorayme" <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message

news:do******** *************** ***********@new s-vip.optusnet.co m.au...

In article <gfaomn$qc...@r egistered.motza rella.org>,
"Nik Coughlin" <nrkn....@gmail .comwrote:

"dorayme" <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message
news:do******* *************** ************@ne ws-vip.optusnet.co m.au...
All questions about curved this or that need to go to our resident
expert
on curvature and especially corner-curvature, Nick Coughlin...

*ding*

Did someone page me? *What's going on here then?

I think a rounded corner box, among other things and issues, is being
attempted at:

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ccw34/index_ff.html

Oh I see.

Using the OP's jq.corners (don't like them personally, no antialiasing and
using the parent + padding to provide a border is nasty):http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/jq.corner.html

Using CSS3:http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/index.html

Using images:http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/images.html

The last breaks in IE6 or lower. *It can be fixed and I have done so inthe
past but I can't be bothered determining what bug it is, sorry, but Google
will help you here.

Excellent, thanks very much - that's exactly what I wanted! :) thanks
for the advice about padding.

I'm not sure I like JQuery either, but I didn't particularly want to
create images - I wasn't aware that you could do the effect in CSS3.

[Nik Coughlin]

"ChrisW" <c.******@gmail .comwrote in message

news:85******** *************** ***********@k1g 2000prb.googleg roups.com...
On 11 Nov, 04:31, "Nik Coughlin" <nrkn....@gmail .comwrote:

"dorayme" <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message

I think a rounded corner box, among other things and issues, is being
attempted at:
>
http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ccw34/index_ff.html

Oh I see.

Using the OP's jq.corners (don't like them personally, no antialiasing
and using the parent + padding to provide a border is nasty):
http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/jq.corner.html

Using CSS3:
http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/index.html

Using images:
http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/images.html

Excellent, thanks very much - that's exactly what I wanted! :) thanks
for the advice about padding.

I'm not sure I like JQuery either, but I didn't particularly want to
create images - I wasn't aware that you could do the effect in CSS3.

Remember that by using CSS3 you're leaving IE out in the cold (though it
does degrade gracefully). Opera too at the moment, they've been talking
about rounded corners for a while now but still no sign. Also, since 9.23
they've been introducing rendering errors and not fixing them :| some stuff
with nesting position: absolute/relative is very broken. Pity, at one point
the rendering in Opera was second to none.

As for jQuery, I love it! Just not so fond of that rounded corner plugin.
There
are much nicer ways to do rounded corners without using images for browsers
that don't support border-radius than how that plugin does it. Also, a lot
of
those rounded corner tricks seem to ignore borders or have some flaky way of
doing it.

Given my fondness for jQuery, I may just have to roll one myself... I'm so
busy though, I doubt I'll find time :|

[Nik Coughlin]

"Nik Coughlin" <nr******@gmail .comwrote in message
news:gf******** **@registered.m otzarella.org.. .

>"ChrisW" <c.******@gmail .comwrote in message
news:85******* *************** ************@k1 g2000prb.google groups.com...
On 11 Nov, 04:31, "Nik Coughlin" <nrkn....@gmail .comwrote:

"dorayme" <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message

I think a rounded corner box, among other things and issues, is being
attempted at:

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ccw34/index_ff.html

This looks good (haven't tried it though):
http://www.curvycorners.net/

[dorayme]

In article <gf**********@r egistered.motza rella.org>,
"Nik Coughlin" <nr******@gmail .comwrote:

"Nik Coughlin" <nr******@gmail .comwrote in message
news:gf******** **@registered.m otzarella.org.. .

"ChrisW" <c.******@gmail .comwrote in message
news:85******** *************** ***********@k1g 2000prb.googleg roups.com...
On 11 Nov, 04:31, "Nik Coughlin" <nrkn....@gmail .comwrote:
"dorayme" <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message

I think a rounded corner box, among other things and issues, is being
attempted at:
>
http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ccw34/index_ff.html

This looks good (haven't tried it though):
http://www.curvycorners.net/

Instead of their demo.html, perhaps this might be better (you never know
what bad practices their code will encourage!):

<http://dorayme.890m.co m/alt/curvyCorners.ht ml>

--
dorayme

[ChrisW]

On 11 Nov, 20:59, "Nik Coughlin" <nrkn....@gmail .comwrote:

"ChrisW" <c.c.w...@gmail .comwrote in message
news:85******** *************** ***********@k1g 2000prb.googleg roups.com...
On 11 Nov, 04:31, "Nik Coughlin" <nrkn....@gmail .comwrote:

"dorayme" <doraymeRidT... @optusnet.com.a uwrote in message

I think a rounded corner box, among other things and issues, is being
attempted at:

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~ccw34/index_ff.html

Oh I see.

Using the OP's jq.corners (don't like them personally, no antialiasing
and using the parent + padding to provide a border is nasty):
>http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/jq.corner.html

Using CSS3:
>http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/index.html

Using images:
>http://nrkn.com/temp/roundyround/images.html

Excellent, thanks very much - that's exactly what I wanted! :) thanks
for the advice about padding.

I'm not sure I like JQuery either, but I didn't particularly want to
create images - I wasn't aware that you could do the effect in CSS3.

Remember that by using CSS3 you're leaving IE out in the cold (though it
does degrade gracefully). *Opera too at the moment, they've been talking
about rounded corners for a while now but still no sign. *Also, since 9..23
they've been introducing rendering errors and not fixing them :| some stuff
with nesting position: absolute/relative is very broken. *Pity, at one point
the rendering in Opera was second to none.

As for jQuery, I love it! *Just not so fond of that rounded corner plugin.
There
are much nicer ways to do rounded corners without using images for browsers
that don't support border-radius than how that plugin does it. *Also, alot
of
those rounded corner tricks seem to ignore borders or have some flaky wayof
doing it.

Given my fondness for jQuery, I may just have to roll one myself... I'm so
busy though, I doubt I'll find time :|

Thanks for this info - it's very interesting :)