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tables for layout bugs question

Can anyone tell us the browsers/versions that exhibit errors
when tables are nested too deeply? And how many levels of
nesting produces errors?

(not a tables vs CSS question)

Nov 1 '06
15 2159
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 15:33:34 +0000, Spartanicus
<in*****@invali d.invalidwrote:
>>>You are confused, using tables for layout causes problems, not errors.

(not a tables vs CSS question)

But it is.

So, what you're saying is you don't have an answer to his question. :/

What you are demonstrating is that you've not understood neither the
question, the answer, or usenet. Oh well.
About his question: His question dealt with nesting tables and not
with CSS.

About your answer: Tables can cause problems . . . ok, I'll agree.
However, tables, whether politically correct in today's preferred web
page layout, are still a part of many web pages. Your reply to his
question, although technically correct, was totally useless.

About my knowledge of Usenet: I'm an average PC user who has been
using Usenet since about 1995. Whether I understand ALL there is to
know about Usenet is not the issue; to that, the answer is no.
However, I'm not a total "newbie" to its concept or its use. Oh, by
the way, Usenet should be spelled starting with a capital letter, so I
guess you're not quite the total "know it all" you believe you are. Oh
well.

--
Zilbandy - Tucson, Arizona USA <zi*@zilbandyRE MOVETHIS.com>
Dead Suburban's Home Page: http://zilbandy.com/suburb/
PGP Public Key: http://zilbandy.com/pgpkey.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nov 2 '06 #11
Zilbandy <zi*@zilbandyRE MOVETHIS.comwro te:
>>What you are demonstrating is that you've not understood neither the
question, the answer, or usenet. Oh well.

About his question: His question dealt with nesting tables and not
with CSS.
Take the false assumption out of the question and the real question the
OP asked was about HTML table vs so called "CSS layouts", this does
however require a capacity to see beyond the question as phrased.
>About your answer: Tables can cause problems . . . ok, I'll agree.
However, tables, whether politically correct in today's preferred web
page layout, are still a part of many web pages. Your reply to his
question, although technically correct, was totally useless.
Answering a question that is based on a false premise not only doesn't
help anyone, it creates confusion. The useful thing to do is to point
out the erroneous assumption. This is good communication practice, also
on usenet, especially in this hierarchy.

--
Spartanicus
Nov 2 '06 #12
Spartanicus wrote:
Zilbandy <zi*@zilbandyRE MOVETHIS.comwro te:
>Spartanicus wrote:
>>What you are demonstrating is that you've not understood neither the
question, the answer, or usenet. Oh well.
>About his question: His question dealt with nesting tables and not
with CSS.
Take the false assumption out of the question and the real question the
OP asked was about HTML table vs so called "CSS layouts",
Actually, he not only didn't ask about CSS, he explicitly stated that he
*wasn't* asking about 'HTML table vs so called "CSS layouts"':

: Can anyone tell us the browsers/versions that exhibit errors when
: tables are nested too deeply? And how many levels of nesting produces
: errors?
:
: (not a tables vs CSS question)

Compare the last line with the last of your lines quoted above.

Pete
Nov 2 '06 #13
On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 17:20:08 +0000, Spartanicus
<in*****@invali d.invalidwrote:
>>About his question: His question dealt with nesting tables and not
with CSS.

Take the false assumption out of the question and the real question the
OP asked was about HTML table vs so called "CSS layouts", this does
however require a capacity to see beyond the question as phrased.
So, if I ask how deep I can nest tables, your answer will be to use
Cascading Style Sheets? Maybe the misunderstandin g has to do with
which side of the pond we live on. :) I'm done with this topic.

--
Zilbandy - Tucson, Arizona USA <zi*@zilbandyRE MOVETHIS.com>
Dead Suburban's Home Page: http://zilbandy.com/suburb/
PGP Public Key: http://zilbandy.com/pgpkey.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nov 2 '06 #14
Zilbandy <zi*@zilbandyRE MOVETHIS.comwro te:
>>Take the false assumption out of the question and the real question the
OP asked was about HTML table vs so called "CSS layouts", this does
however require a capacity to see beyond the question as phrased.

So, if I ask how deep I can nest tables, your answer will be to use
Cascading Style Sheets?
I would answer that it is rarely appropriate to nest tables if used for
their intended purpose, that the question suggests that tables are being
used inappropriately , that this causes problems and that the real
solution is to stop doing that.

If you asked how to shoot yourself through the foot, I'd tell you that
doing so is not smart, not explain how to load the gun. This is a time
honoured tradition by the knowledgable regulars in this hierarchy.

--
Spartanicus
Nov 2 '06 #15
Zilbandy <zi*@zilbandyRE MOVETHIS.comwri tes:
On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 17:20:08 +0000, Spartanicus
Take the false assumption out of the question and the real question the
OP asked was about HTML table vs so called "CSS layouts", this does
however require a capacity to see beyond the question as phrased.

So, if I ask how deep I can nest tables, your answer will be to use
Cascading Style Sheets? Maybe the misunderstandin g has to do with
which side of the pond we live on. :) I'm done with this topic.
I've seen table layout (as in the process of laying out a table, not
the use of a table or tables to layout a page) have (minor but
visually ugly) bugs in all modern graphical browsers, for a
sufficiently complex data table [1] with no nesting at all and
entirely valid HTML code. If there are bugs at nesting depth 0, then
it obviously follows that there are also bugs at all greater nesting
depths.

All complex tables are going to have layout bugs, at the
extremes. Nesting makes it more likely that the complexity will pass
the 'critical point'. So, for example, the table generated by the
pseudocode:
for i in [1..10000] {
print ("<table><tr><t d>");
}
print ("Content");
for i in [1..10000] {
print ("</td></tr></table>");
}
is likely to have bugs (despite all individual tables involved being simple)

Conversely, a sufficiently complex table can have bugs with no nesting
at all.

So your question is unanswerable. (In practice, there's no need to
nest tables at all in the vast majority of situations, and no need to
nest them more than one level deep in the extremely small minority
remaining, so that's not a major problem)

[1] colspans on almost every cell in most rows, and two columns per
month over a 10+ year period.
For the extremely small 'intranet-like' audience who were interested
in the data, it was the best way to present it. Of course, I'd
recommend for general web use breaking the table down into several
two smaller ones - maybe one per year.

--
Chris
Nov 3 '06 #16

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