Hello all,
I'm somewhat of a newbie to webscripting. I've made a couple of websites in
the past with WYSIWYG software, but now I'm much more interested in manual
scripting. I have some questions about DOCTYPE:
1. Is a doctype statement *required*, or is it just "strongly suggested"? I
would probably be using a Transitional doctype.
2. I understand that in a frameset I must use a Framset Doctype ststement,
but what about the individual pages within the frameset? Must I use the
Frameset Doctype statement in those pages as well? Would they even have a
doctype at all, or is the Frameset doctype enough?
3. Does a doctype statement actually *do* anything, or is it just a
declaration that you're following a standard?
I ask question #3 because none of my websites currently have a DOCTYPE
statement, but inserting a DOCTYPE statement sometimes screws up the
formatting of the page. DIV's don't line up, borders aren't always right,
JavaScripts (that I've downloaded) don't work the same way. Also, horizontal
scroll bars show up where they weren't before. But when I validate the page,
the validator doesn't show anything wrong with the elements that are
affected.
For instance: In my personal homepage, I have a <div> with an orange dotted
border that's lined up within a frame. It lines up nicely the way I intended
it. But when I insert the <Transitional > doctype, the div stretches across
the page and the text doesn't fit right.
So I'm just wondering how important they are. Eventually I want to validate
all my pages and include doctypes. Just in case anyone is interested, here
are two of my sites. Thanks in advance for any replies. http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk http://www.sayatnova.com
--
Viken K. http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk 25  2712 
Once upon a time *Viken Karaguesian* wrote: Hello all,
I'm somewhat of a newbie to webscripting. I've made a couple of websites in
the past with WYSIWYG software, but now I'm much more interested in manual
scripting. I have some questions about DOCTYPE:
1. Is a doctype statement *required*, or is it just "strongly suggested"? I
would probably be using a Transitional doctype.
A: It's *required* if you want the page to validate, and even if not
it's "strongly suggested".
Use a full doctype (with the link)
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
2. I understand that in a frameset I must use a Framset Doctype ststement,
but what about the individual pages within the frameset? Must I use the
Frameset Doctype statement in those pages as well? Would they even have a
doctype at all, or is the Frameset doctype enough?
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
Goes only in the frameset file, transitional to all other individual
pages.
3. Does a doctype statement actually *do* anything, or is it just a
declaration that you're following a standard?
Yes, it does. It makes the browsers render the pages without guessing
what they should look like, when rendering them in Standard Mode and
not in Quirks Mode.
I ask question #3 because none of my websites currently have a DOCTYPE
statement, but inserting a DOCTYPE statement sometimes screws up the
formatting of the page. DIV's don't line up, borders aren't always right,
JavaScripts (that I've downloaded) don't work the same way. Also, horizontal
scroll bars show up where they weren't before. But when I validate the page,
the validator doesn't show anything wrong with the elements that are
affected.
For instance: In my personal homepage, I have a <div> with an orange dotted
border that's lined up within a frame. It lines up nicely the way I intended
it. But when I insert the <Transitional > doctype, the div stretches across
the page and the text doesn't fit right.
So I'm just wondering how important they are. Eventually I want to validate
all my pages and include doctypes. Just in case anyone is interested, here
are two of my sites. Thanks in advance for any replies.
http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk
http://www.sayatnova.com
Have you really tried to validate your pages? Have you ever looked on
your pages with any other browser than IE? If not, you should. The
front page for home.comcast.ne t/~vikenk looks very emty in mozilla,
and that's *not* Mozilla's fault :)
Add the doctype declarations and then validate on http://validator.w3.org/ (HTML) http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ (CSS)
You have several serious errors in your CSS.
--
/Arne
Now killing all top posters and posters who don't quote
* How to post: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/brox.html
* From Google: http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
-------------------------------------------------------------
Viken Karaguesian wrote: 1. Is a doctype statement *required*, or is it just "strongly
suggested"? I would probably be using a Transitional doctype.
New documents should use a Strict doctype. Transitional is for minor
updates to old legacy pages where you don't want to take the time to do
work such as remove presentational code into a CSS stylesheet.
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
See: <http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/valid-dtd-list.html>
Also, google for "frames are evil"
--
-bts
-When motorcycling, never follow a pig truck
> Have you really tried to validate your pages? Have you ever looked on your pages with any other browser than IE? If not, you should. The
front page for home.comcast.ne t/~vikenk looks very emty in mozilla,
and that's *not* Mozilla's fault :)
Yes, I have, and they don't validate well. :>( I know how my webpage looks
in Mozzila and have not been able to figure out why it looks like that. I'm
not very knowledgeable about html, so I'm trying to get more in depth to
figure out why it's that way. It seems to look fine in Opera, but some of
the colors seem a bit off.
Viken Karaguesian wrote: It seems to look fine in Opera, but some of
the colors seem a bit off.
Anything to do with "orange" ?
<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=h ttp%3A%2F%2Fhom e.comcast.net%2 F%7Evikenk%2Fvi ken.css&warning =1&profile=css2 &usermedium=all >
--
-bts
-When motorcycling, never follow a pig truck
[attribution restored]
Arne <in*****@domain .invalid> wrote: Have you really tried to validate your pages? Have you ever looked on
your pages with any other browser than IE? If not, you should. The
front page for home.comcast.ne t/~vikenk looks very emty in mozilla,
and that's *not* Mozilla's fault :)
Viken Karaguesian <vi****@NOSPAMc omcast.net> wrote: Yes, I have, and they don't validate well. :>( I know how my webpage looks
in Mozzila and have not been able to figure out why it looks like that. I'm
not very knowledgeable about html, so I'm trying to get more in depth to
figure out why it's that way. It seems to look fine in Opera, but some of
the colors seem a bit off.
Looks fine? Okay, if you say so. My copy of Opera shows a hit counter in
the left frame, which is otherwise empty (and wasting 20-25% of the browser
window). And the right frame shows several empty boxes that look like
they're supposed to be images.
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanford alumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp. com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/
"Adventure is nothing but a romantic name for trouble." - Louis L'Amour
> Looks fine? Okay, if you say so. My copy of Opera shows a hit counter in the left frame, which is otherwise empty (and wasting 20-25% of the
browser
window). And the right frame shows several empty boxes that look like
they're supposed to be images.
Really?? When I view with Opera, I see that the hit counter is empty, but I
see all the images...
Re: http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk/
I wrote: Looks fine? Okay, if you say so. My copy of Opera shows a hit counter in
the left frame, which is otherwise empty (and wasting 20-25% of the
browser
window). And the right frame shows several empty boxes that look like
they're supposed to be images.
Viken Karaguesian <vi****@NOSPAMc omcast.net> wrote: Really?? When I view with Opera, I see that the hit counter is empty, but I
see all the images...
Expanding http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk/home.htm to the full browser
window, there is a grid of 6 images along the right edge. They're all just
white outlines, and it looks like they're all the same image: http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk/other_pics/cell.gif
A 1x1 GIF? Looking at the source, you seem to be using some JavaScript hack
to replace this image with various other images, based on the ID attribute.
See http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/whatnojs.html
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanford alumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp. com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/
"Adventure is nothing but a romantic name for trouble." - Louis L'Amour Expanding http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk/home.htm to the full browser
window, there is a grid of 6 images along the right edge. They're all just
white outlines, and it looks like they're all the same image:
http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk/other_pics/cell.gif
A 1x1 GIF? Looking at the source, you seem to be using some JavaScript
hack
to replace this image with various other images, based on the ID
attribute.
I still see all the images along the right. Yes, it is a Javascript.
Some explanation: According to the author of the menu system that I use (HV
Menu www.burmees.nl/menu), the menu must wait until all the images are
loaded before the menu appears. But if there are lots of images, this will
take lots of time for the menu to appear, especially for the dial-up users.
He claims it's in the design and is inflexible.
His suggested workaround is to load up some dummy images (the 1x1 cell.gif)
to "trick" the menu into appearing first, then using the suggested
Javascript to swap the real images in place of the dummy image. This makes
the menu appear very quickly.
I tried his suggestion and it seemed to work OK. I keep checking his website
to see if he modified the menu to appear before everything else in the page,
but so far, I have the latest version.
I just don't understand why the website looks as it does in Mozilla.
> Have you really tried to validate your pages? Have you ever looked on your pages with any other browser than IE? If not, you should. The
front page for home.comcast.ne t/~vikenk looks very emty in mozilla,
and that's *not* Mozilla's fault :)
Add the doctype declarations and then validate on
http://validator.w3.org/ (HTML)
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ (CSS)
My cleaned-up CSS now validates! This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics | |
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