Cross platform HTML (IE not following standards?)

[Trammel]

Hi, I am here to request support from anyone that has idea's on
cross-browser HTML (Mainly Firefox and IE).

My personal website http://trammel.no-ip.info works fine on Firefox but IE
decides to crush the left table (ingnoring that there is no breakable
spaces).

I tried using nowrap already and IE still forces a wrap of the text in the
menu... thats why I tried using non-breaking spaces instead of normal
ones... so there was nowhere to break (however IE still takes no notice and
wraps it).

Anyone got any idea's on a fix that would work for both browsers (Firefox
already works)?
Thanks in advance for you time & for reading this post.

[Uncle Pirate]

Steve Pugh wrote:

"Trammel" <[e-mail] m> wrote:

And frankly... there wont be any disabled people visiting my personal
webpage so I dont give a flying f*ck if they cant read the ALT tags for 1x1
pixel images!

I know exactly why IE is breaking your tables. I know exactly how to
fix it. But because you're clearly a right little shit, I'm not going
to bother wasting any time on you, and I bet I'm not he only one. Bye.

Steve

I care about helping this idiot about as much as he cares about hearing
about me visiting his web page. (I'm disabled, I can see just fine with
one eye, but I can't walk. But, ya gotta give him that he didn't
discriminate; he doesn't seem to give a flying whatever for *any* disabled.)

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

[Harlan Messinger]

Trammel wrote:

If you dont have a fix then PLEASE dont post shite from "validators " that
say my code wont work because of things like no "Alt" tags in images >:¬O

If you hadn't gathered.... ALT tags and all the other rubbish returned as
"errors" are either false
No, sorry, they are true. You may not *care* that your code is
incorrect, but it is.

(like saying there is no background option in the TD element.... which DOES work to show images)
Define "work". Yes, some browsers have been designed to accommodate some
bad code as well as good code. But then, you can never predict which bad
code will "work" in any given browser, and if you don't think that
"works" means something other than whether a particular browser happens
to get it right, then you might wind up down the road wondering why the
heck something suddenly *doesn't* work.

Here's an analogy. A correct way to ask someone for something is "May I
please have such-and-such?" An incorrect way is "Give me some of that
such-and-such, you stupid git, or I'll beat you to a bloody pulp." The
latter may get you what you want once or twice, but if you think that
that means it "works" and that it's correct, you're in for a surprise.
or aren't even errors and intentionally left out (like ALT tags)...

If you drive down the wrong side of the road a 3 in the morning and
don't have an accident, does that mean it wasn't "wrong"?

[Stan Brown]

"Harlan Messinger" wrote in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:

Here's an analogy. A correct way to ask someone for something is "May I
please have such-and-such?" An incorrect way is "Give me some of that
such-and-such, you stupid git, or I'll beat you to a bloody pulp." The
latter may get you what you want once or twice, but if you think that
that means it "works" and that it's correct, you're in for a surprise.

Good analogy, snce he seems to be taking the second approach toward
this newsgroup. :-)

--

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/

[Jan Roland Eriksson]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 06:14:54 GMT, "Trammel" <[e-mail] m> wrote:
[...]

...and most of it is "errors" that I didnt bother putting Alt's for 1-pixel
images... OMG! How could I be so careless with my 1x1 pixel images?!?!!!?!
You are missing required "ALT attribute values",
there is no such thing as an "ALT tag".
Im guessing from the amount of people complaining about not liking nested
tables & pointing out stupid error-logs from "validators " that I dont use
ALT tags...
"ALT attributes"...
...in images (and other unrelated rubbish) that nobody here knows a
fix to stop IE from crushing a table that it shouldn't?
Oh; people here knows a lot more than you know but your attitude sort
of prohibits you from seeing it.
And frankly... there wont be any disabled people visiting my personal
webpage...
Yes there is, the worlds biggest www user with built in disabilities
goes by the name of "Google". It can't see images, it can't do java
script and it can't do Flash or any other "plug in" feature either.

Whatever is left over after you remove that extra noise from your
basic markup is what Google can use to rate your pages.

But Google can, and does, read ALT attribute values so it's a pretty
good idea to tell it what your images are all about by filling in some
realistic values for your ALT attributes.

Note that for "worthless" IMG's an empty string value, as in ALT=""
may be appropriate, or better yet, don't place "worthless" info in
your pages in the first place.
so I dont give a flying f*ck if they cant read the ALT tags for 1x1
pixel images!

"ALT attributes" for crying out loud; is there something wrong with
your ears? or is your disability isolated to the volume of tapioca
pudding that you carry around /between/ your ears?

--
Rex

[Andy Dingley]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:55:51 +0100, Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > wrote:

I bet I'm not he only one. Bye.

We differ in one significant point, Steve.

You got as far as line #16, I plonked him at #8 after
"which is obviously wrong as its working in both IE & Firefox..."

[Steve Pugh]

Andy Dingley <di*****@codesm iths.com> wrote:

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:55:51 +0100, Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > wrote:

I bet I'm not he only one. Bye.

We differ in one significant point, Steve.

You got as far as line #16, I plonked him at #8 after
"which is obviously wrong as its working in both IE & Firefox..."

I somehow managed to read the whole diatribe but picked out line 16 to
quote as it served as a perfect summary of the attitude on display.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net > <http://steve.pugh.net/>

[Del Ferguson]

"Trammel" <[e-mail] m> wrote in message
news:Yi******** ***********@fe1 .news.blueyonde r.co.uk...

Hi, I am here to request support from anyone that has idea's on
cross-browser HTML (Mainly Firefox and IE).

My personal website http://trammel.no-ip.info works fine on Firefox but IE
decides to crush the left table (ingnoring that there is no breakable
spaces).

I tried using nowrap already and IE still forces a wrap of the text in the
menu... thats why I tried using non-breaking spaces instead of normal
ones... so there was nowhere to break (however IE still takes no notice
and
wraps it).

Anyone got any idea's on a fix that would work for both browsers (Firefox
already works)?
Thanks in advance for you time & for reading this post.

Trammel,

After reading all of the posts in this thread I figure that if you put Tidy
on your HTML editor and add Checky and HTML Validator to your Firefox,
you'll never have to come back here again; however, if you want to go back
to the basics and fix your problem, you should follow Carla's advice and
make the borders visible. It is easy enough to go back and forth between IE
and FF (FF has add-ons for that) to see where a coding modification may be
needed. I do it all of the time--after I've got what appears to be good
solid HTML. Just the humble opinion of a school of hard-knocks coder.

Del Ferguson

[Fred Banaszak]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:46:56 +0200, Jan Roland Eriksson
<jr****@newsguy .com> wrote:

"ALT attributes" for crying out loud; is there something wrong with
your ears? or is your disability isolated to the volume of tapioca
pudding that you carry around /between/ your ears?

You might want to go back and read the whole message before you start
hurling epithets.

(HINT: usenet is not a real-time conversation.)

[Jan Roland Eriksson]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:36:15 GMT, Fred Banaszak
<fr**********@e arthlink.invali d> wrote:

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:46:56 +0200, Jan Roland Eriksson
<jr****@newsgu y.com> wrote:

"ALT attributes" for crying out loud;...

(HINT: usenet is not a real-time conversation.)

I know what Usenet is (and is not) but I wrote my comment in a way that
it would *look* like a real time conversation to the next Usenaut in
line.

You obviously missed that angle of my post.

--
Rex

[Trammel]

Thanks for the suggestions Carla.

I have tried setting all borders to 1 but the tables all look fine.

I'll checkout that DHTML menu system soon but real-life has kinda stopped me
bothering with the website as its only something I was messing with in my
spare time (but I have bookmarked the address for later).

I use a 1x1 transparent gif for spacing already and also have a 1x1 black
gif for drawing lines at side of menu... I just didnt want to fix the size
of the left menu so that it read Ok for increased text size's

Sorry it took me a while to answer but I had kinda given-up on this group
due to everyone who cant actually help just flaming :¬/

"c.thornqui st" <c.**********@i nsightbb.com> wrote in message
news:p_Y3e.1326 03$r55.17047@at tbi_s52...

"Trammel" <[e-mail] m> wrote in message
news:Yi******** ***********@fe1 .news.blueyonde r.co.uk...

Hi, I am here to request support from anyone that has idea's on
cross-browser HTML (Mainly Firefox and IE).
<snip>

You have too many unnecessary tables. Plus, IE displays tables better when
they are nested. You shouldn't leave tables floating like you do. Some of
yours are nested, but most are not. And there are much better ways to

build that navigation bar. Here's a free one: http://www.coffeecup.com/free-dhtml/
Have you set all your table borders to "1" just to see what your page
structure looks like? Have you ever used transparent .gifs as spacers? They work well to control page layout. They, too, should be used sparingly.

Carla