52  5463 
Dr John Stockton wrote: JRS: In article <k9************ *************** *****@4ax.com>, dated
Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:08:03, seen in news:comp.infos ystems.www.authoring.h
tml, Jan Roland Eriksson <jr****@newsguy .com> posted :
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:16:39 GMT, "Gerard M Foley"
<gf****@colum bus.rr.com> wrote:
Can one write a webpage which is not displayed but which simply redirects
the user to another page without any action by the user?
Sure; read up on how your www server is designed to handle such things.
HTTP response codes should be your matter of interest.
Why are the regulars here so determined to be unhelpful given the
slightest excuse? The question that you have given a sort of indirect
answer to is not even the question that was actually asked.
Perhaps because they did not have the correct answer and perhaps they
have learned something?
Excellent response and the right answer from where I sit.
I look forward to further tart and cryptic responses.
--
Gus
"Dr John Stockton" <sp**@merlyn.de mon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:J5******** ******@merlyn.d emon.co.uk... JRS: In article <k9************ *************** *****@4ax.com>, dated
Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:08:03, seen in news:comp.infos ystems.www.authoring.h
tml, Jan Roland Eriksson <jr****@newsguy .com> posted :On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:16:39 GMT, "Gerard M Foley"
<gf****@columb us.rr.com> wrote:
Can one write a webpage which is not displayed but which simply
redirectsthe user to another page without any action by the user?
Sure; read up on how your www server is designed to handle such things.
HTTP response codes should be your matter of interest.
Why are the regulars here so determined to be unhelpful given the
slightest excuse? The question that you have given a sort of indirect
answer to is not even the question that was actually asked.
The OP wishes, he says, to write a Web page that redirects; and a Web
page is the material, headers apart, transmitted in response to an HTTP
request; typically, at least, starting <DOCTYPE or <HTML and ending
</HTML>.
He has not asked about configuring a WWW server.
He asked a question in such a vague manner that it's not evident which of
several things he's trying to accomplish, and such that it looks like he may
be a newbie who doesn't even know whether what he wants to do would be best
accomplished by a web page or by some other means.
It might be useful to
tell him something about that, or to cite explicitly a reliable
reference; but that does not answer the question that he asked. He may
not even have access to server configuration.
Who said anything about configuration? If he's using any kind of server-side
processing, there's a ready-made Redirect method. He's only out of luck on
that count if he's using straight HTML.
The answer to the question asked is "Yes, though I cannot be sure that
it works on all possible systems, nor that formal standards cover the
matter."
And for the question implied, an illustration :
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/gravity.htm> summons a page
including, in the <HEAD> section, a line
<META HTTP-EQUIV="REFRESH" CONTENT="2; URL='gravity0.h tm'">,
which, after 2 seconds, summons
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/gravity.htm> as a replacement; but
ISTR that one is, or was, advised to include an ordinary link like
<a href="gravity0. htm">gravity0.h tm</a> as a backup.
That's an answer that the regulars here won't provide, because it's
generally not a good thing to do--and there's no reason why it would be
preferable to directing the user via the HTTP response code. (If the user,
in spite of not having said so [see, you're just as happy as anyone to
answer questions the OP hasn't asked], does want a page that stays up for
two seconds before requesting another page, well, that's a bad idea too,
unless the purpose of your web site is to administer a timed test or speed
reading training of some kind. Don't make assumptions about how long a user
will take to read something. Let him click a link to continue when he's
ready to move on.)
Dr John Stockton <sp**@merlyn.de mon.co.uk> wrote: Why are the regulars here so determined to be unhelpful given the
slightest excuse?
This group has a FAQ, which is partly dusty and would need some
addition, but it surely answers many frequently asked questions
far better than a random collection of answers from people who didn't
bother checking the FAQ.
People who ask frequently asked questions without checking the FAQ
effectively ask to be mislead.
So what's _your_ excuse for giving a wrong answer when the correct
answer is available in the FAQ?
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
Jukka K. Korpela wrote: Dr John Stockton <sp**@merlyn.de mon.co.uk> wrote:
Why are the regulars here so determined to be unhelpful given the
slightest excuse?
This group has a FAQ, which is partly dusty and would need some
addition, but it surely answers many frequently asked questions
far better than a random collection of answers from people who didn't
bother checking the FAQ.
People who ask frequently asked questions without checking the FAQ
effectively ask to be mislead.
So what's _your_ excuse for giving a wrong answer when the correct
answer is available in the FAQ?
Because it may be the "right" answer for the OP?
Since all the Regulars know the FAQ by heart, what is so wrong in
directing the OP to: http://www.htmlhelp.org/faq/html/all.html#redirect
With a further reference to: http://www.htmlhelp.org/faq/html/all.html#index-better
Any other additional helpful comments such as:
All these factors considered and if META-Refresh is still suitable for
your needs, then you may be interested to know that it is supported by
Moz, Opera, IE and even by NC (that I am aware of at the moment).
Perhaps there should be a FAQ item describing the proper method of
responses in order to avoid such discord?
--
Gus
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:57:01 +0000, Dr John Stockton <sp**@merlyn.de mon.co.uk>
wrote: JRS: In article <k9************ *************** *****@4ax.com>, dated
Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:08:03, seen in news:comp.infos ystems.www.authoring.h
tml, Jan Roland Eriksson <jr****@newsguy .com> posted :On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:16:39 GMT, "Gerard M Foley"
<gf****@colum bus.rr.com> wrote:
Can one write a webpage which is not displayed but which simply redirects
the user to another page without any action by the user?
Sure; read up on how your www server is designed to handle such things.
HTTP response codes should be your matter of interest.
Why are the regulars here so determined to be unhelpful given the
slightest excuse? The question that you have given a sort of indirect
answer to is not even the question that was actually asked.
The OP wishes, he says, to write a Web page that redirects; and a Web
page is the material, headers apart, transmitted in response to an HTTP
request; typically, at least, starting <DOCTYPE or <HTML and ending
</HTML>.
He has not asked about configuring a WWW server. It might be useful to
tell him something about that, or to cite explicitly a reliable
reference; but that does not answer the question that he asked. He may
not even have access to server configuration.
The answer to the question asked is "Yes, though I cannot be sure that
it works on all possible systems, nor that formal standards cover the
matter."
And for the question implied, an illustration :
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/gravity.htm> summons a page
including, in the <HEAD> section, a line
<META HTTP-EQUIV="REFRESH" CONTENT="2; URL='gravity0.h tm'">,
which, after 2 seconds, summons
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demo n.co.uk/gravity.htm> as a replacement; but
ISTR that one is, or was, advised to include an ordinary link like
<a href="gravity0. htm">gravity0.h tm</a> as a backup.
Unfortunately that doesn't cover his requirement that the first page should not
display. Zero length delays are frowned on.
I confirm I *have* read the FAQ, http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/html/publish.html
which doesn't suggest any other client-side solution.
People here have got a real downer on using frames to achieve the effect, but
they've not actually said why. Of course, it works fine, and millions of people
use it unknowingly every day, but hey, I'm willing to listen, and to be told a
better client-side method.
Jim
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:57:01 +0000, Dr John Stockton
<sp**@merlyn.de mon.co.uk> wrote: JRS: In article <k9************ *************** *****@4ax.com>, dated
Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:08:03, seen in news:comp.infos ystems.www.authoring.h
tml, Jan Roland Eriksson <jr****@newsguy .com> posted :On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:16:39 GMT, "Gerard M Foley"
<gf****@colum bus.rr.com> wrote:
Can one write a webpage which is not displayed but which simply redirects
the user to another page without any action by the user?
Sure; read up on how your www server is designed to handle such things.
HTTP response codes should be your matter of interest.
Why are the regulars here so determined to be unhelpful given the
slightest excuse?
What the heck? How can you say that an indication of what needs to be
studied in order to solve a problem the correct way is an "unhelpful"
answer?
Google gives some 925000 hits for a search key of "HTTP Response
Headers" just about everything you need to know is available on the
first result page. Go figure, or you can continue to "spoon feed" your
wrong solutions for the disappointing results it is guaranteed to
produce when least wanted.
The question that you have given a sort of indirect
answer to is not even the question that was actually asked.
The OP wishes, he says, to write a Web page that redirects;...
Correction, the OP wanted...
"a web page which is not displayed but which simply redirects".
Your own answer further down in your post fails to meet the OP's request
on that "not displayed" point, right?
[...]
He has not asked about configuring a WWW server.
Read the OP's question again.
Then answer this; is there a better way to guarantee a "no display"
situation than to have no web page at all in the first place?
Further; the server is under your control, the user agent is not.
If you need some acceptable level of assurance that a redirect will
really take place, you need to set it up on the server, period.
The remaining question is whether to set up a 301 or a 302 response as
Jukka was giving arguments about.
While I can agree with Jukka's statements in general terms, this
question from the OP is not really about anything that has moved to a
new location either permanent or temporary.
What the OP really wants is a URL that just does not represent any
presentable resource at all but only redirects it self to another,
probably fixed, location. Spiders would find such "other locations"
anyway, regardless of the existence of a URL that does not represent a
real resource, so to me a 302 response is correct in this special
situation.
...He may not even have access to server configuration.
Well, you don't but that's because you are using a crappy service in the
first place and as Alain said, "then he is not really publishing on the
www".
And just for the record, you would be surprised to find how many www
service providers who actually do allow a basic level of server configs
for their users.
From what I have seen over the years, it's usually that the users have
never bothered to find out what level of server capacity they have
available.
--
Rex
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:23:12 GMT, Jim Lawton <uc**@use.your. initiative>
wrote:
[...] People here have got a real downer on using frames to achieve the effect, but
they've not actually said why.
Have you ever tried to bookmark a specific frame state, as produced by
the "framed" simple minded www author?
Where you able to use that bookmark to get back to exactly what you
where looking at in the first place?
[...]
...but hey, I'm willing to listen, and to be told a
better client-side method.
There is none.
--
Rex
Gus Richter <gu********@net scape.net> wrote: Since all the Regulars know the FAQ by heart, what is so wrong in
directing the OP to:
http://www.htmlhelp.org/faq/html/all.html#redirect
Nothing particular, if you are willing to do so, despite the flow of
wrong answers that people will consume more eagerly since they look
simpler. Most of the regulars have become kind of frustrated with that.
After all, if people who ask questions here wanted _correct_ answers
and wanted them _fast_, they would have checked the FAQ before asking.
What's wrong with _your_ reaction is that you keep babbling and
disorienting people - even defending and propagating disinformation
"because it may be the 'right' answer for the OP".
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
Jan Roland Eriksson <jr****@newsguy .com> wrote: Correction, the OP wanted...
"a web page which is not displayed but which simply redirects".
I'm afraid we don't really know what that means, unless the OP explains
it. But the fair assumption is that it means the common redirection,
for whatever reason (e.g., because a page has been moved, or because
one wants to create a shorter URL for a resource that has a long URL,
or because a mistyped URL was published in a newspaper).
The remaining question is whether to set up a 301 or a 302 response
as Jukka was giving arguments about.
While I can agree with Jukka's statements in general terms, this
question from the OP is not really about anything that has moved to
a new location either permanent or temporary.
Technically 301 is defined in terms of a "new" URL (which logically
implies an "old" URL), but this needs to be interpreted liberally,
since there is no other way to handle a wide range of cases where a URL
is to be permanently redirected to another URL even if the two cannot
be genuinely classified as "old" and "new".
What the OP really wants is a URL that just does not represent any
presentable resource at all but only redirects it self to another,
probably fixed, location.
Maybe. But a redirected URL represents a resource through the
redirection.
Spiders would find such "other locations"
anyway, regardless of the existence of a URL that does not
represent a real resource, so to me a 302 response is correct in
this special situation.
I still disagree. There is no reason to assume that spiders find the
resource some other way. Moreover, search engines could not know that
they can simply discard the URL that gets redirected - they would need
to treat the two URLs as essentially separate.
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
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