Generating noframes version of framed page

[annie]

Hello all.
I am writing an XSL stylesheet that automatically converts a page with
frames to a noframes equivalent of this page, using tables.

I can get the positioning of each frame write in the table layout,
and the only problem left is the dimensions of each cell.

So my question is:
Is there any way of automatically calculating the sizing of each table
cell, representing a frame, so that the resulting page will look like
the framed page, with the same size for each frame content?

I mean, how can I parse the rows and cols attribute values of the
frameset tags to convert them automatically into the correct width and
height of the table cells?

Thanks in advance

Anna

[Lauri Raittila]

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, annie wrote:

Hello all.
I am writing an XSL stylesheet that automatically converts a page with
frames to a noframes equivalent of this page, using tables.
You should consider if it makes sence.
I can get the positioning of each frame write in the table layout,
and the only problem left is the dimensions of each cell.

So my question is:
Is there any way of automatically calculating the sizing of each table
cell, representing a frame, so that the resulting page will look like
the framed page, with the same size for each frame content?

I mean, how can I parse the rows and cols attribute values of the
frameset tags to convert them automatically into the correct width and
height of the table cells?

No. that is because tables and frames are both very bad tools for layout,
and their problems are in opposite places...

You really should use CSS instead.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>

[Lauri Raittila]

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, annie wrote:

Hello all.
I am writing an XSL stylesheet that automatically converts a page with
frames to a noframes equivalent of this page, using tables.

Forgot: about half of browsers that don't do frames don't do tables
either.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>

[jake]

In message <MP************ ************@ne ws.individual.n et>, Lauri
Raittila <la***@raittila .cjb.net> writes

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, annie wrote:

Hello all.
I am writing an XSL stylesheet that automatically converts a page with
frames to a noframes equivalent of this page, using tables.

Forgot: about half of browsers that don't do frames don't do tables
either.

In other words, a very small proportion of a very small proportion ....

The word 'insignificant' comes immediately to mind .... ;-)

--
Jake

[annie]

Thanks for your answer.
CSS is also an option for me, but the problem there is that the
positioning might mess up some content of the frame, if it was
positioned as well.
But even with CSS, how can I generate the CSS layout automatically,
based on the rows/cols values of the frameses?

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Lauri Raittila wrote:

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, annie wrote:

Hello all.
I am writing an XSL stylesheet that automatically converts a page with
frames to a noframes equivalent of this page, using tables.

Forgot: about half of browsers that don't do frames don't do tables
either.

That's only partially true; and those who chose Lynx might well have
done so in order to avoid being forced to use frames...

The killer argument, for me, is that most of the browsers that /do/ do
frames (i.e the vast majority of those in popular use) will deny the
reader access to the noframes alternative. (I can only think of Opera
as an exception to that rule).

So, unless the author goes to extra trouble to produce and offer
separate access to a noframes option, most users are *forced* to get
the framed option, whether they like it or not. That's rude, and I
don't like to treat my readers in that way.

[Lauri Raittila]

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, Alan J. Flavell wrote:

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Lauri Raittila wrote:

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, annie wrote:

Hello all.
I am writing an XSL stylesheet that automatically converts a page with
frames to a noframes equivalent of this page, using tables.
Forgot: about half of browsers that don't do frames don't do tables
either.

That's only partially true; and those who chose Lynx might well have
done so in order to avoid being forced to use frames...

By half I meaned exactly lynx. There is no sence to make table layout
stuff for lynx people. Not that it usually makes any sence on links etc
either. So it is very productive to make table layout for that audience,
as it is entirely possible that orginal, well done frames layout is just
fine (of course, OPs frames are not well done, as it would be easy to
convert such.)
The killer argument, for me, is that most of the browsers that /do/ do
frames (i.e the vast majority of those in popular use) will deny the
reader access to the noframes alternative. (I can only think of Opera
as an exception to that rule).
Yes, and even it don't have easy way to toggle. As it really would make
sence.
So, unless the author goes to extra trouble to produce and offer
separate access to a noframes option, most users are *forced* to get
the framed option, whether they like it or not. That's rude, and I
don't like to treat my readers in that way.

Yes.
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>

[Lauri Raittila]

in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html, annie wrote:

Thanks for your answer.
CSS is also an option for me, but the problem there is that the
positioning might mess up some content of the frame, if it was
positioned as well.
I mostly considered it as option to get rid of frames, as I though you
are doing it for your site. Now I understand that it would make sence to
craft such XSL for other reasons too. (if that is the question, mention
it, I believe there is n+1 frame hater lurking out there ready to help
anyone to get rid of frames, but not with frames)

Here is link that nobody has yet posted, which is a must now, otherwise
someone pops and asks what is wrong with frames...
http://www.html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
But even with CSS, how can I generate the CSS layout automatically,
based on the rows/cols values of the frameses?

Hard to say. Do I assume correctly, that frames would be set in all
possible ways? If you do have percentages, *s and pxs, then CSS most
likely won't be enaugh to do stuff automatically. You could get your
tabled version "work" using fixed table layout modell, but that would not
necessarily help to solve any real problem. (fixed table layout and * as
table width unit is are not too supported either)

Anyway, if your problem is your site, I would post URL to ciwa.site-
design, and as how it would be easiest to remake your whole site, getting
rid both frames and tables...

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>

[Philipp Lenssen]

annie wrote:

I am writing an XSL stylesheet that automatically converts a page with
frames to a noframes equivalent of this page, using tables.

Why are you using frames in the first place?

[annie]

I am not using frames. It's not my site.
What I want is to create a stylesheet that will create a noframes
version for ANY framed page out there, that will look as much like the
framed version as possible.
That's why I need something generic - I don't know how many different
versions of frames may occur.